It came to me in the night.

[NavyDave]

You have to address the defense.

A playmaker like S Taylor means the back seven can shutdown offenses and actually score when they create turnovers.

A Trade down to me means you have to go d line and then probably one of the 2nd tier TEs though I see a watson going high also.

If D Gardener decides to come back to the skins that could greatly upgrade the d line.

[earl]

its a solid arguement, but you forget 2 things.

1. we have 3 holes on defense DT, DE, S and only one hole on offense TE, and we only have 2 picks in this years draft, and we look to address all our holes through the draft and FA. with all the money we have spent, how do you suppose we can sign a solid DT and/or DE with the money we have left? there is no way those positions demand the most money, conversely TE and S are some of the most cap friendly positions to fill. we should trade down and get a DT or DE, because a solid TE and S would be more realistic to afford.

2. ben watson is the best TE in this years class. not the most hyped, but certainly could be more productive (circumstances dictate all). this could be debateable, but the meer fact that it is debatable leads me to believe that winslow isn't a "must take" once in a lifetime, type player.

[jbooma]

If we lost McCants and maybe Gardner next year having K2 will help the transition

[Dirk Diggler]

Art

I have this dream where I’m in a living room in Buffalo with Joe Gibbs and Greg Williams as he’s trying to pitch him the idea of becoming the DC in DC. I’m this fly on the wall while Gibbs is talking about how the Redskins fans are the best in the world. How he’ll make as much money as some head coaches. What an awesome owner Snyder is and how he’ll do whatever it takes to win. How Williams will have his choice of assistants and be integral in the player selection process for the defense. How much of an advantage Williams will have with 2 great young corners and an already super-solid back 7 in place.

As I think back to that day in Buffalo, I see that Gibbs came through on all those promises except for a very big one: He allowed Bailey to leave. Did Gibbs have much of a choice? Not really. Did we get a stud in return on offense for him? Absolutely. But while our overall depth on defense is much better due to an aggressive FA campaign, our starting lineup could easily be worse off talent-wise than last season. Unless…unless…unless

Unless we draft defense with that top pick. We must take defense. I understand the dangers of zeroing in on one player or even one side of the ball. It’s called reaching for need. But that is a philosophy for the middle of the first, not the top 5. By all accounts we will have our choice of any defender in the draft. In the absolute worst case, someone will trade over us for Taylor and we will have our choice of any defender BUT Taylor which is still what I would call “sittin pretty.”

Check out some of these defenders taken in the top 10 picks from the last 3 drafts:

Terrence Newman, Terrell Suggs, Kevin Williams, Julius Peppers, Roy Williams, John Henderson, Richard Seymour, Andre Carter.

Most of these players are destined for at least one if not multiple Pro Bowls. This year as in most years, you can pretty much count on at least 3 defenders drafted in the top 10 who will find themselves in Hawaii. Are you telling me that after ranking 25th overall in defense, getting gutted by Troy Hambrick, and not being able to sniff the QB that we are going to pass on the chance to get the top defensive player in the draft? I mean, how much of a magician do we expect Williams to be? I’m sorry but I just don’t buy the theory that Gibbs will try to assemble the Rams offense and let the man he made so many promises to figure out a way to keep opposing defenses under 30. That’s not what Williams signed up for and it’s hard to believe that Gibbs would ask that much of the man.

Art – since you are a betting man, let’s bet whose premonition comes to fruition. You can take Winslow and I will take Taylor. $100? While it may not be Taylor I can most certainly assure you that it will be defense. In which case I have nothing to lose.

[Montilar]

The problem with the argument "completing the offense" is that it completes the offense for only one year. Yet leaves the holes unfixed on D.

What happens with Gardner next year? You gonna let him go or give him the big contract he will want? If McCants continues to develop AND gets resigned, or IF Jacobs shows up, then it could be a non-issue. but until then, it is.

(I expect Gardner to be gone after his contract runs out. I've expected that since last year.)

Not to mention if Winslow is drafted, then once again that makes Jacobs and McCants wasted picks as he would take away their playing time. [Gibbs will likely not be using 3 WR's with both Winslow and a blocking TE. And running a frequent winslow and a 3 WR set with a RB leaves the O open to blitzing (Spurrier's offense comes to mind) unless winslow is there to block...]

Or if Samuels does not redo his deal, forcing the issue so to speak, do you cut him and then need to draft a LT?

All of which means that next year you could be looking to draft O again, ignoring the DL for the 11th or 12th year...

Again it's putting off desperate needs for a luxury big name splash...

[Dirk Diggler]

Utah

If Winslow was so devastating, then why did Sean Taylor score 3 times as many TDs this past year? Granted Brock Berlin wasn't Joe Montana but the Canes managed to score 15 Tds through the air. And I'm to understand that only one of them went to Winslow? Truly "devastating."

On the flipside, the Hurricane defense came down with 19 picks and Taylor snatched more than half of them with 10. As mentioned before, he scored on 3 of them. After watching their games the past 2 seasons, if I had to call one player devastating - it wouldn't be Winslow.

[Storm]

good post Art, I wish my slumber was this coherent.

BUT, the whole idea that you fix one unit this year and the other unit next year is faulty. There is the whole issue of maturing into becoming a good football player. Rookies are rarely impact players, so if you decide to address the defense next year, it will take a year or two beyond that for those picks to become truely effective (we likely wont have a top ten pick next year (hopefully).

By then your offense is getting old or you re losing free agents on that side of the ball. You see-saw back and forth between a complete offense and a complete defense.

The best thing to do is to be balanced and be willing to take a few non "sexy" picks once in a while. ie trade down a few spots and start replenishing the D line which is chronically ignored in the draft.

This way while the offense is not as spectacular as it would be with Winslow, you at least have the foundation of a good D line in place to build on next year.

[RedskinsFanInTX]

Originally posted by LaVar 56 Leap

Even though you might not be able to fill all the hole on the D in the draft; we would still be able to upgrade the unit considerably by taking a top tier derfensive player like Taylor. I would love to have the top offense in the league, but the last time I checked defense wins championships. Frankly, right now we have a pretty bad one.

I think a ball control type offence will help to improve our defense. It seems to me, there were quite a few games last year that our defense was worn down by the end of the game and it cost us! Winslow would be a good fit for the offence the Redskins will be running this year.

[sonsofwashington]

Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8

For the past 4 seasons, AT THE VERY LEAST, it has always been "next year" in regards to addressing the Defensive line shortcomings of this team. I am sick and tired of it.

Until we truly address this, teams will continue to run on us and have all day to throw.

:eaglesuck always have and always will.

You both mak good points, but Art you seemed to have shot your argument in the foot when you stated that the tightend position was not an integral part of the Gibbs offense. I have to say the Skinz_dom makes a good point. It's the reason Tony Hambrick ran for 180 yards against us last season in the rain and its the reason Amani Toomer can beat Champ Bailey for an 80 yard bomb from Kerry Collins in a game the Skins lost by 3 points. I attended both games sadly enough (at least I went to the Pats game too).

Good points though. I don't know who I would pick. Be interesting to see what happens. Just pray we stay healthy.

[skinsanity56]

we all know character is a big issue with gibbs so i just can't see him taking winslow,even if he knows/coached his father..

hate to bring up an old point but taylor would look awfully nice in centre field on sundays doubling up on owens & covering the likes of shockey,freeing up our lb's to wreak havoc even more..also,we'll probably be playing even more zone with bailey leaving so a ballhawk would be nice back there to help out.i like bowens & ohalate but coverage is not there specialty.

honestly though we can't lose out drafting taylor/winslow/harris or udeze..they all fill needs.hopefully we can tradedown once or twice & still come out with one of the 4 & bonus picks.we'll see,many things will change between now & then..

lets just hope some of us don't turn into filthy philly fans & BOO the selection..HTTR

[jrfriedm]

Montilar~

There will always be holes to fill on both sides of the ball. Unless Gardner has a break out year this season, I don't see his price tag being to high. He's thought of as middle to low #2 throughout most of the league. However, like I have said so many times in the past, the Redskins really should take Taylor.

[sonsofwashington]

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler

Utah

If Winslow was so devastating, then why did Sean Taylor score 3 times as many TDs this past year? Granted Brock Berlin wasn't Joe Montana but the Canes managed to score 15 Tds through the air. And I'm to understand that only one of them went to Winslow? Truly "devastating."

On the flipside, the Hurricane defense came down with 19 picks and Taylor snatched more than half of them with 10. As mentioned before, he scored on 3 of them. After watching their games the past 2 seasons, if I had to call one player devastating - it wouldn't be Winslow.

Guess you didn'st see that game against "I forgot who":doh: where he made a 180 degree catch over his head while falling backwards to keep the drive alive on 3rd or 4th and long. I am not saying you are not right. Maybe the word we are looking for is not devastating. Maybe the correct word is clutch. I like clutch players. I always have and I always will. Doug Williams was clutch.........well at least once.:rotflmao:

[BillyKilmer]

Art

Your dreaming ... I hope your right

[Dirk Diggler]

It was on 4th and 15 or so against West Virginia and it was an amazing catch. They don't go on to win without that catch. It was clutch. Props to Winslow. But it was one catch.

But I've seen Oronde Gadsen make even better catches and he's working at Blockbuster right now.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler

It was on 4th and 15 or so against West Virginia and it was an amazing catch. They don't go on to win without that catch. It was clutch. Props to Winslow. But it was one catch.

But I've seen Oronde Gadsen make even better catches and he's working at Blockbuster right now.

Sure he is

I think if we lost McCants then Winslow will be selected.

[jrfriedm]

Clutch is great, but I like overall productivity. Winslow is not a blocking TE, Gibbs like BLOCKING TEs people. :doh:

[Art]

Dirk, let's revisit the bet. I agree with many in the thought that if Winslow signs with the Postons as his agent that we won't take him. Let's wait for that to materialize before firming up a wager. But, if he goes with a different agent and both guys are available at No. 5, we might have ourselves a bet.

Of course, that's unless Taylor runs a 4.42 or something crazy at his next workout .

[Dirk Diggler]

:thumbsup:

[sonsofwashington]

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler

It was on 4th and 15 or so against West Virginia and it was an amazing catch. They don't go on to win without that catch. It was clutch. Props to Winslow. But it was one catch.

But I've seen Oronde Gadsen make even better catches and he's working at Blockbuster right now.

OK. Name the catch. 4 and 15 with the undeafeated season still on the line. 180 degress, falling backwards, over his head, nothing but net!:laugh:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by jrfriedm

Clutch is great, but I like overall productivity. Winslow is not a blocking TE, Gibbs like BLOCKING TEs people. :doh:

If I recall his original H-back was not a blocking TE and had 91 catches his first year in the offense

[KirkNC]

Why do we need any other players on D LaVar makes Superman look like an old lady swinging her purse. He alone should easily have us in the top five D's next year, no?

As for TE me thinks TE might be a good move, I just think you have the wrong guy tageted. Watson is a better blocker than Winslow and has a higher ceiling it seems with his physical gifts. He has a bigger frame, is stronger and faster...

[sonsofwashington]

Originally posted by jrfriedm

Clutch is great, but I like overall productivity. Winslow is not a blocking TE, Gibbs like BLOCKING TEs people. :doh:

Good point, but wouldn't you say that being clutch is an attribute of a great player. All I am trying to say is that KW2 probably is not a bad player, but not our man. Who knows though if KW2 becomes the next Shannon Sharpe then we will regret not drafting him.

[Storm]

Why do we need any other players on D LaVar makes Superman look like an old lady swinging her purse. He alone should easily have us in the top five D's next year, no?

what games have you been watching? Lavar has been a major dissapointment so far. Ill just be happy if he stops comminting stupid personal fouls once every half.

[Oldskool]

If we draft KW2, we have already given up on trying to improve our defense and especially our D line this year and are looking towards next year.

Im sure that Gibbs realizes that if we draft Winslow, we will have to outscore our opponents the same way the 99 Rams had to, due to their lack of overall defense.

IMHO its not the right thing to do and I believe its suicide for the team this year, but then again my last name isn’t Snyder, Gibbs or Williams.

[Jimbo]

When I look at Shannon Sharpe in Denver, I see a guy who has picked up more important first downs than I can count. Sharpe is not the greatest blocker but he's adequate. What he does is force you, for the most part, to cover him with a safety. Very few linebackers could cover him in his prime.

This is what Winslow would bring to the mix. When you have a 3rd and four and you really NEED a first down to keep a crucial drive alive, Winslow would provide a big, somewhat vertical target. Remember that catch he made againt West Virginia?

With Winslow in the mix, we could help keep our defense off the field. We didn't have All-Pro safeties in 1991. We had a good, not great, defense and actually won the Super Bowl with our offense.

I think we can build a decent defense out of the group we have if the offense can stay on the field. Winslow could actually help do that. There's also the outside chance we could end up with another Defensive Lineman after June 1st.

Yeah, I know I haven't been an advocate of Winslow up to this point but I can certainly see the merits of taking him a lot clearer now. I still have my doubts he'll be the pick but if we don't trade down too far and can pick up another pick AND get Winslow, you won't see me complaining.