With All Due Respect To Trung Candidate.....

[bubba9497]

Trung had a 4.2 avg. that's not too shabby. He just missed a bunch of games

[The Agent]

Originally posted by Trung24

He's junk. Why do you think the Rams were so willing to get rid of him?

2 Things:

1) I find it hilarious that you have his name and said that and;

2) I wish they were willing to get rid of Arlen Harris.....he's going to be very good.

[The Agent]

Originally posted by Trung24

He's junk. Why do you think the Rams were so willing to get rid of him?

2 Things:

1) I find it hilarious that you have his name and said that and;

2) I wish they were willing to get rid of Arlen Harris.....he's going to be very good.

[NHSkinsFan]

One of the last positions we need to pick in the first round is a RB. We need D-line, first two rounds, then O-line, assuming champ is with us. I would like to see what our backs could do with a real HC and O-line coach. I still think Betts has potential, especially with Gibbs. His blocking was better this year than last and better in the few games near the end before he was injured again. I also think the Rock could do well with the counter-trey, he breaks tackles.

Remember in his speech, 'Defense gets you to the playoffs.' I believe he build the defense first and see if he can work some wonders with most of the offense we already have in place. This is how I interpreted his comments about defense. The special teams comment was, don't give my offense or defense bad field positions and we will do well.

I have faith Gibbs can come up with an offense with the players we have that will play well enough as long as we have a good defense.

[NHSkinsFan]

One of the last positions we need to pick in the first round is a RB. We need D-line, first two rounds, then O-line, assuming champ is with us. I would like to see what our backs could do with a real HC and O-line coach. I still think Betts has potential, especially with Gibbs. His blocking was better this year than last and better in the few games near the end before he was injured again. I also think the Rock could do well with the counter-trey, he breaks tackles.

Remember in his speech, 'Defense gets you to the playoffs.' I believe he build the defense first and see if he can work some wonders with most of the offense we already have in place. This is how I interpreted his comments about defense. The special teams comment was, don't give my offense or defense bad field positions and we will do well.

I have faith Gibbs can come up with an offense with the players we have that will play well enough as long as we have a good defense.

[Jimbo]

Well said NH. I prefer to get the defense in high gear first. I think Joe, with a few tweaks, can be successful with most of the offensive players we have.

[Jimbo]

Well said NH. I prefer to get the defense in high gear first. I think Joe, with a few tweaks, can be successful with most of the offensive players we have.

[evergleam24]

trung most go

[evergleam24]

trung most go

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by Jimbo

Well said NH. I prefer to get the defense in high gear first. I think Joe, with a few tweaks, can be successful with most of the offensive players we have.

What do you notice about all the playoff teams this year; with the exception of maybe St. Louis? Look at their defenses.

Gibbs is going to make the defense a priority. You don't need a high-octane offense to win in the NFL. And it doesn't help much with freezing temperatures come playoff time.

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by Jimbo

Well said NH. I prefer to get the defense in high gear first. I think Joe, with a few tweaks, can be successful with most of the offensive players we have.

What do you notice about all the playoff teams this year; with the exception of maybe St. Louis? Look at their defenses.

Gibbs is going to make the defense a priority. You don't need a high-octane offense to win in the NFL. And it doesn't help much with freezing temperatures come playoff time.

[just skins baby]

You labeled this thread "with all due respect" and Trung has not done anything here that I can respect him for.

I would be curious to see if Gregg Williams and come in here and reshape this defensive line with what we have and then we would be free to pursue a good running back.

[just skins baby]

You labeled this thread "with all due respect" and Trung has not done anything here that I can respect him for.

I would be curious to see if Gregg Williams and come in here and reshape this defensive line with what we have and then we would be free to pursue a good running back.

[inmate running the asylum]

Canidate may or may not work out as the featured back under Gibbs. But lets face it, none of our backs looked good because of Superior's pass-happy Fun and Done offense. I think we have more talent at RB now than people realize.

Recall that Gibbs had success with a variety of RB's during his coaching reign. It was not just all John Riggins.

Gibbs had smaller, successful change-of-pace backs on his rosters also, such Joe Washington, Ricky Irvin and Kelvin Bryant, just to name a few.

I think our present RB's are a lot better than a lot of the playoff teams, such as New England for instance. So I wouldn't be in such a hurry to dump Canidate, Betts and McCullough for instance.

[inmate running the asylum]

Canidate may or may not work out as the featured back under Gibbs. But lets face it, none of our backs looked good because of Superior's pass-happy Fun and Done offense. I think we have more talent at RB now than people realize.

Recall that Gibbs had success with a variety of RB's during his coaching reign. It was not just all John Riggins.

Gibbs had smaller, successful change-of-pace backs on his rosters also, such Joe Washington, Ricky Irvin and Kelvin Bryant, just to name a few.

I think our present RB's are a lot better than a lot of the playoff teams, such as New England for instance. So I wouldn't be in such a hurry to dump Canidate, Betts and McCullough for instance.

[Dan T.]

Keep Trung. I'm in the tank for him as a contributor to the offense. He ran well when he was healthy this year.

[Dan T.]

Keep Trung. I'm in the tank for him as a contributor to the offense. He ran well when he was healthy this year.

[Om]

I wrote in another thread a couple of days ago (which now puts that thread like 13 or 14 pages deep) that I don't believe next year's starter is on the roster right now.

Ladell Betts might still turn out to be a good back, but his inability to stay on the field make him too risky to count on at this point. But between Betts, Trung, Chad Morton, Rock Cartwright and Sultan McCullough, I think there's a good chance Gibbs can find his 3rd down and/or changeup back. And between Rock and Mike Sellers, I think we'll be okay at FB.

But the lead back is yet to come. We simply have no hammer who has proven he can get it done in the league. Personally, I don't think Gibbs will be comfortable heading into the season with a rookie as that guy, so I have my doubts that we'll be drafting a Jones or Jackson and penciling him in. Just not Gibbs' style.

As of today, I see him going out and trying to find Byner 2.0 -- a guy who has had some success in the league that he knows he can lean on -- and then spend the summer and first season seeing what he's got among the rest of those guys.

[Om]

I wrote in another thread a couple of days ago (which now puts that thread like 13 or 14 pages deep) that I don't believe next year's starter is on the roster right now.

Ladell Betts might still turn out to be a good back, but his inability to stay on the field make him too risky to count on at this point. But between Betts, Trung, Chad Morton, Rock Cartwright and Sultan McCullough, I think there's a good chance Gibbs can find his 3rd down and/or changeup back. And between Rock and Mike Sellers, I think we'll be okay at FB.

But the lead back is yet to come. We simply have no hammer who has proven he can get it done in the league. Personally, I don't think Gibbs will be comfortable heading into the season with a rookie as that guy, so I have my doubts that we'll be drafting a Jones or Jackson and penciling him in. Just not Gibbs' style.

As of today, I see him going out and trying to find Byner 2.0 -- a guy who has had some success in the league that he knows he can lean on -- and then spend the summer and first season seeing what he's got among the rest of those guys.

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by Om

And between Rock and Mike Sellers, I think we'll be okay at FB.

But the lead back is yet to come. We simply have no hammer who has proven he can get it done in the league. Personally, I don't think Gibbs will be comfortable heading into the season with a rookie as that guy, so I have my doubts that we'll be drafting a Jones or Jackson and penciling him in. Just not Gibbs' style.

As of today, I see him going out and trying to find Byner 2.0 -- a guy who has had some success in the league that he knows he can lean on -- and then spend the summer and first season seeing what he's got among the rest of those guys.

I partially agree with you Om, but not entirely. No we don't have a hammer on the roster, but recall that Byner only weighed 215 lbs. So its not exactly size that counts, its success and durability. Betts, Canidate or even McCullough could still work out, if they exhibit these attributes and if they can gain 1200 yards like Byner did -- which all these guys were able to do in college.

As for starting rookies, Gibbs was perfectly willing to start a rookie, if he was ready and capable. Remember Timmy Smith in the playoffs and his 200 yards rushing in the Super Bowl?

By the way, Gibbs doesn't use FB's in his offense. But he does use TE's and H-backs, and I feel that Sellers and Cartwright will fall into that latter category.

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by Om

And between Rock and Mike Sellers, I think we'll be okay at FB.

But the lead back is yet to come. We simply have no hammer who has proven he can get it done in the league. Personally, I don't think Gibbs will be comfortable heading into the season with a rookie as that guy, so I have my doubts that we'll be drafting a Jones or Jackson and penciling him in. Just not Gibbs' style.

As of today, I see him going out and trying to find Byner 2.0 -- a guy who has had some success in the league that he knows he can lean on -- and then spend the summer and first season seeing what he's got among the rest of those guys.

I partially agree with you Om, but not entirely. No we don't have a hammer on the roster, but recall that Byner only weighed 215 lbs. So its not exactly size that counts, its success and durability. Betts, Canidate or even McCullough could still work out, if they exhibit these attributes and if they can gain 1200 yards like Byner did -- which all these guys were able to do in college.

As for starting rookies, Gibbs was perfectly willing to start a rookie, if he was ready and capable. Remember Timmy Smith in the playoffs and his 200 yards rushing in the Super Bowl?

By the way, Gibbs doesn't use FB's in his offense. But he does use TE's and H-backs, and I feel that Sellers and Cartwright will fall into that latter category.

[Om]

Well, then you're partiallly right.

The "hammer" thing was a poor choice of word without qualification. My bad. Sue me, it's late.

My point was simply that I would be very surprised indeed if Gibbs heads into the season with just the guys we have today. There's just no one guy who has shown enough to be counted on.

And as to the rookie question ... my answer is that by the time Timmy Smith got his date with destiny, the 1987 Redskins had ridden George Rogers all the way to the Super Bowl. Big, big difference between telling a guy half an hour before his 19th game -- on a team peaking offensively behind one of the best lines in NFL history -- that he's going to start, and telling a guy who hasn't ever been in an NFL game at all that he's starting on opening day on a team with questions marks and new faces everywhere you look.

Bottom line for me ... I think Gibbs will bring in a veteran who tends toward power back rather than go with what he's got or draft a blue-chipper and roll the dice.

What does Ms. Cleo think?

[Om]

Well, then you're partiallly right.

The "hammer" thing was a poor choice of word without qualification. My bad. Sue me, it's late.

My point was simply that I would be very surprised indeed if Gibbs heads into the season with just the guys we have today. There's just no one guy who has shown enough to be counted on.

And as to the rookie question ... my answer is that by the time Timmy Smith got his date with destiny, the 1987 Redskins had ridden George Rogers all the way to the Super Bowl. Big, big difference between telling a guy half an hour before his 19th game -- on a team peaking offensively behind one of the best lines in NFL history -- that he's going to start, and telling a guy who hasn't ever been in an NFL game at all that he's starting on opening day on a team with questions marks and new faces everywhere you look.

Bottom line for me ... I think Gibbs will bring in a veteran who tends toward power back rather than go with what he's got or draft a blue-chipper and roll the dice.

What does Ms. Cleo think?

[The Agent]

Originally posted by inmate running the asylum

But lets face it, none of our backs looked good because of Superior's pass-happy Fun and Done offense. I think we have more talent at RB now than people realize.

But none of our WR's looked good either. I mean I LOVE Laveranues Coles, but even with Spurrier's passy happy offense they didn't go to him a whole lot. I mean he's our #1 WR right? Well wouldn't it make sense that if the offense was "Pass-centered" that he'd catch more balls and get more yards than he did on the Jets last year? Guess what he didn't. Spurriers fun and gun was a facade as well. You'd think the #1 WR would out do his previous years numbers if the offense was all about him, gardner and McCants.

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD

2002 New York Jets 16 16 89 1264 14.2 43 5 19 2 67

2003 Washington Redskins 16 16 82 1204 14.7 64 6 21 3 54

Almost Identical stats to last year! So much for "heavy passing"

This "trend" continues throughout the recieving corps. In fact Gardner actually had 20 fewer receptions this year and 400 fewer yards (without Coles). But STILL 400 LESS yards? Thats a whole lot of fewer receptions. Look at some of the WR's this year that came close to 100 or 100+ receptions. That's what I'd call pass-heavy.

McCants, 100 more yards but he also played in 6 more games.

Finally take a look at Taylor Jacobs. You'd think that a rookie WR would actually get some field time especially when your SOOOO far out of the playoffs. I mean wouldn't you want to develop him in your pass centered offense.....so you have more depth? Well in Spurriers fun and gun he played 8 games, was thrown to 3 times!!!!!! and went for 37 yards. 12.something yards a reception is pretty damn good for a rookie.

Case in point. Spurrier said he was going to throw the ball and he failed, he failed calling the right plays or failed throwing enough, and when he didn't throw he gave it to a guy that did little or nothing. That my friends is why we lost to some really bad teams this year. Running the ball with Trung and then not giving Coles, Gardner or McCants enough ball time. And only hitting your 4th option 3 times in 8 games, really SAD.

Finally. When your RB has nearly double the rushing attempts that your #1 WR has, you know your running and not passing.

If Fun N Gun was truly about passing the Skins would look more like Indiana and less like Buffalo.

[bubba9497]

Gibbs Previous Drafts

92-81

1992

1 1 4 4 Desmond Howard WR Michigan

2 2 19 47 Shane Collins DE Arizona State

3 3 18 74 Paul Siever G Penn State

4 4 28 112 Chris Hakel QB William & Mary

5 6 28 168 Ray Rowe TE San Diego State

6 7 28 196 Calvin Holmes DB USC

7 8 28 224 Darryl Moore G Texas-El Paso

8 9 28 252 Boone Powell LB Texas

9 10 28 280 Tony Barker LB Rice

10 11 28 308 Terry Smith WR Penn State

11 12 28 336 Matt Elliott C Michigan

1991

1 1 17 17 Bobby Wilson DT Michigan State

2 3 21 76 Ricky Ervins RB USC

3 6 20 159 Dennis Ransom TE Texas A&M

4 7 21 188 Keith Cash TE Texas

5 8 20 215 Jimmy Spencer DB Florida

6 9 20 243 Charles Bell DB Baylor

7 10 20 270 Cris Shale P Bowling Green

8 11 21 299 David Gulledge DB Jacksonville State

9 12 20 326 Keenan McCardell WR UNLV

1990

1 2 21 46 Andre Collins LB Penn State

2 3 23 76 Mo Elewonibi G Brigham Young

3 4 5 86 Cary Conklin QB Washington

4 4 28 109 Rico Labbe DB Boston College

5 5 21 130 Brian Mitchell RB SW louisiana

6 6 23 160 Kent Wells DT Nebraska

7 9 23 243 Tim Moxley G Ohio State

8 10 14 262 D'Juan Francisco DB Notre Dame

9 10 22 270 Thomas Rayam DT Alabama

10 11 21 297 Jon Leverenz LB Minnesota

1989

1 3 10 66 Tracy Rocker DT Auburn

2 4 26 110 Erik Affholter WR USC

3 5 17 129 Tim Smiley DB Arkansas State

4 5 27 139 Lybrant Robinson DE Delaware State

5 6 10 149 A.J. Johnson DB SW Texas State

6 7 12 179 Kevin Hendrix LB South Carolina

7 9 10 233 Charles Darrington TE Kentucky

8 10 12 263 Mark Schlereth G Idaho

9 12 9 316 Jimmie Johnson TE Howard

10 12 10 317 Joe Mickles RB Mississippi

1988

1 2 28 55 Chip Lohmiller K Minnesota

2 3 11 66 Mike Oliphant RB Puget Sound

3 4 27 109 Jamie Morris RB Michigan

4 5 18 127 Carl Mims DB Sam Houston State

5 6 22 159 Stan Humphries QB N.E. Louisiana

6 7 28 193 Harold Hicks DB San Diego State

7 8 28 221 Darryl McGill RB Wake Forest

8 9 28 249 Blake Peterson LB Mesa State

9 10 28 277 Henry Brown T Ohio State

10 11 28 305 Curt Koch DE Colorado

11 12 10 315 Wayne Ross P San Diego State

1987

1 2 2 30 Brian Davis DB Nebraska

2 2 20 48 Wally Kleine T Notre Dame

3 5 5 117 Timmy Smith RB Texas Tech

4 6 4 144 Steve Gage DB Tulsa

5 6 24 164 Ed Simmons T Eastern Washington

6 7 24 192 Johnny Thomas DB Baylor

7 8 24 219 Clarence Vaughn DB Northern Illinois

8 9 25 248 Alfred Jenkins TE Arizona

9 10 23 274 Ted Wilson WR Central Florida

10 11 25 304 Laron Brown WR Texas

11 12 24 331 Ray Hitch**** C Minnesota

1986

1 2 3 30 Markus Koch DE Boise State

2 2 18 45 Walter Murray WR Hawaii

3 3 20 75 Alvin Walton DB Kansas

4 5 3 113 Ravid Caldwell LB Arkansas

5 6 8 146 Mark Rypien QB Washington State

6 6 18 156 Jim Huddleston G Virginia

7 7 20 186 Rick Badanjek RB Maryland

8 8 19 213 Kurt Gouveia LB Brigham Young

9 9 18 239 Wayne Asberry DB Texas A&M

10 11 20 297 Kenny Fells RB Henderson State

11 12 18 323 Eric Yarber WR Idaho

1985

1 2 5 33 Tory Nixon DB San Diego State

2 5 10 122 Raphel Cherry DB Hawaii

3 6 23 163 Danzell Lee TE Lamar

4 7 9 177 Jamie Harris WR Oklahoma State

5 7 17 185 Lionel Vital RB Nicholls State

6 8 23 219 Barry Wilburn DB Mississippi

7 9 23 247 Mitch Geier G Troy State

8 10 11 263 Terry Orr TE Texas

9 11 10 290 Raleigh McKenzie G Tennessee

10 11 24 304 Gary Kimble DB Sam Houston State

11 12 1 309 Dean Hamel DT Tulsa

12 12 23 331 Bryant Winn LB Houston

1984

1 2 3 31 Bob Slater DT Oklahoma

2 2 27 55 Steve Hamilton DE East Carolina

3 3 27 83 Jay Schroeder QB UCLA

4 4 18 102 Jimmy Smith RB Elon

5 5 13 125 Jeff Pegues LB East Carolina

6 6 27 167 Curt Singer T Tennessee

7 7 27 195 Mark Smith WR North Carolina

8 8 27 223 Jeff Smith DB Missouri

9 10 27 279 Keith Griffin RB Miami (FL)

10 11 27 307 Anthony Jones TE Wichita State

11 12 27 335 Curtland Thomas WR Missouri

1983

1 1 28 28 Darrell Green DB Texas A&I

2 2 28 56 Richard Williams RB Memphis State

3 3 28 84 Charles Mann DE Nevada

4 6 26 166 Bob Winckler T Wisconsin

5 6 28 168 Babe Laufenberg QB Indiana

6 7 28 196 Kelvin Bryant RB North Carolina

7 8 28 224 Todd Hallstrom T Minnesota

8 9 27 251 Marcus Gilbert RB Texas Christian

9 10 28 279 Geff Gandy LB Baylor

1982

1 2 22 49 Vernon Dean DB San Diego State

2 3 6 61 Carl Powell WR Jackson State

3 4 16 99 Todd Liebenstein DE UNLV

4 5 22 133 Michael Williams TE Alabama A&M

5 6 14 153 Lemont Holt Jeffers LB Tennessee

6 7 13 180 John Schachtner LB Northern Arizona

7 8 28 223 Ralph Warthen DT Gardner-Webb

8 9 3 226 Ken Coffey DB SW Texas State

9 9 15 238 Randy Trautman DT Boise State

10 10 3 254 Harold Smith DE Kentucky State

11 10 14 265 Terry Daniels DB Tennessee

12 11 2 281 Dan Miller K Miami (FL)

13 11 12 291 Bob Holly QB Princeton

14 12 3 309 Donald Laster T Tennessee State

15 12 16 322 Jeff Goff LB Arkansas

1981

1 1 20 20 Mark May T Pittsburgh

2 3 13 69 Russ Grimm C Pittsburgh

3 4 7 90 Tom Flick QB Washington

4 5 8 119 Dexter Manley DE Oklahoma State

5 5 21 132 Gary Sayre G Cameron

6 6 10 148 Larry Kubin LB Penn State

7 8 8 201 Charlie Brown WR South Carolina State

8 9 10 231 Darryl Grant G Rice

9 10 9 257 Phil Kessel QB Northern Michigan

10 10 19 267 Allan Kennedy T Washington State

11 11 8 284 Jerry Hill WR North Alabama

12 12 10 314 Clint Didier TE Portland State

Gibbs played and started more rookies than many realize