SonnyJ Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Softer than Lenny, but still skeptical. He seems to think Gibbs came back for money. ========================================== Here are two names new Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs should remember to help him understand how much different the NFL truly is today than it was when he walked away in 1992: Ed Simmons and Raleigh McKenzie. In the great history of the Washington Redskins, neither of those players is special. They were mostly reserve players, two hard working offensive linemen who were late-round draft picks. Joe Gibbs' glory days include sharing a Super Bowl XVII game ball with owner Jack Kent Cooke and John Riggins.(AP) They were Hogs, yes. But they were backup Hogs. So why remember them? In today's NFL, they wouldn't be on the Redskins roster for long. As it was, Simmons and McKenzie were valuable reserves for an offensive line that was one of the best in the NFL. When a guard or center couldn't play, McKenzie started. Sometimes Simmons played guard, and at other times he took over at tackle. McKenzie came into the league in 1985 and Simmons in 1987. Both spent much of their early years on the bench, but both also were starters for Gibbs' last team in 1992. In the modern NFL, where cap management is the way, they would have been gone in four years. Or the player in front of them would have bolted in free agency, forcing them into starting duty earlier than planned. That's the biggest change Gibbs will face in his return to the sidelines, aside, of course, from the $5 million per year he will be paid. In his day, a team could stockpile talent, develop it and then start it at the coach's leisure. No more. Salary-cap rules guidelines now make that impossible. Do you think in this NFL, Ricky Sanders would have stuck around to be a No. 3 receiver for the Redskins? If Az-Zahir Hakim can get millions now from the Lions after excelling as a third receiver for the Rams, Sanders would get even more. Times have changed. This isn't to throw mud in the face of Gibbs' return. After all, how can he turn down $25 million? And don't dare think he's dumb enough to walk away from that sum after two seasons like some other foolish Redskins coach (initials SOS) did. We applaud owner Dan Snyder for making the move. This is bigger in the D.C. area than Michael Jordan coming to the Wizards, any Monica Lewinsky sighting or Marion Barry video footage. Gibbs is revered. With his three Super Bowl rings -- with three different quarterbacks -- he is one of the best of all-time. But 11 years after he walked away, at the age of 63, does he still have the passion? Does he still have the drive? Indications are that Gibbs has been itching to get back, with money having a lot to do with it. Twenty-five million bucks will go a long way toward retirement and helping the kids and grandkids down the road. There are still many issues in front of him. Can he relate to the modern player, guys who mostly play a game, do a Leon-like interview for the TV cameras, make a few cell phone calls and then put on a throwback jersey and head out the door, 10 minutes after the game is over? Can he work the long hours he once did with the same vigor? Can he handle having Snyder sit on the field at the 50 during practice, holding practice-field meetings from his throne-like chair with his racquetball buddy, Vinny Cerrato? Gibbs is smart enough and good enough that he should adapt to it all. But to think that lightning will strike again just because he's back would be wrong. Sure, we've seen Dick Vermeil and Bill Parcells make impressive returns at an older age, but didn't Bud Grant fail in his return to the sidelines with the Vikings in 1985, going 7-9 after being out of coaching for only two seasons? This isn't the same NFL Gibbs walked away from. Just look at his new team. Ed Simmons and Raleigh McKenzie would both be definite starters. Simmons at guard, McKenzie at center. Back in the good, old days, they had trouble getting on the field. Simmons and McKenzie. Two names that tell Gibbs all he needs to know about how things have changed. Is he ready for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Softer than Lenny, but still skeptical. He seems to think Gibbs came back for money. ========================================== Here are two names new Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs should remember to help him understand how much different the NFL truly is today than it was when he walked away in 1992: Ed Simmons and Raleigh McKenzie. In the great history of the Washington Redskins, neither of those players is special. They were mostly reserve players, two hard working offensive linemen who were late-round draft picks. Joe Gibbs' glory days include sharing a Super Bowl XVII game ball with owner Jack Kent Cooke and John Riggins.(AP) They were Hogs, yes. But they were backup Hogs. So why remember them? In today's NFL, they wouldn't be on the Redskins roster for long. As it was, Simmons and McKenzie were valuable reserves for an offensive line that was one of the best in the NFL. When a guard or center couldn't play, McKenzie started. Sometimes Simmons played guard, and at other times he took over at tackle. McKenzie came into the league in 1985 and Simmons in 1987. Both spent much of their early years on the bench, but both also were starters for Gibbs' last team in 1992. In the modern NFL, where cap management is the way, they would have been gone in four years. Or the player in front of them would have bolted in free agency, forcing them into starting duty earlier than planned. That's the biggest change Gibbs will face in his return to the sidelines, aside, of course, from the $5 million per year he will be paid. In his day, a team could stockpile talent, develop it and then start it at the coach's leisure. No more. Salary-cap rules guidelines now make that impossible. Do you think in this NFL, Ricky Sanders would have stuck around to be a No. 3 receiver for the Redskins? If Az-Zahir Hakim can get millions now from the Lions after excelling as a third receiver for the Rams, Sanders would get even more. Times have changed. This isn't to throw mud in the face of Gibbs' return. After all, how can he turn down $25 million? And don't dare think he's dumb enough to walk away from that sum after two seasons like some other foolish Redskins coach (initials SOS) did. We applaud owner Dan Snyder for making the move. This is bigger in the D.C. area than Michael Jordan coming to the Wizards, any Monica Lewinsky sighting or Marion Barry video footage. Gibbs is revered. With his three Super Bowl rings -- with three different quarterbacks -- he is one of the best of all-time. But 11 years after he walked away, at the age of 63, does he still have the passion? Does he still have the drive? Indications are that Gibbs has been itching to get back, with money having a lot to do with it. Twenty-five million bucks will go a long way toward retirement and helping the kids and grandkids down the road. There are still many issues in front of him. Can he relate to the modern player, guys who mostly play a game, do a Leon-like interview for the TV cameras, make a few cell phone calls and then put on a throwback jersey and head out the door, 10 minutes after the game is over? Can he work the long hours he once did with the same vigor? Can he handle having Snyder sit on the field at the 50 during practice, holding practice-field meetings from his throne-like chair with his racquetball buddy, Vinny Cerrato? Gibbs is smart enough and good enough that he should adapt to it all. But to think that lightning will strike again just because he's back would be wrong. Sure, we've seen Dick Vermeil and Bill Parcells make impressive returns at an older age, but didn't Bud Grant fail in his return to the sidelines with the Vikings in 1985, going 7-9 after being out of coaching for only two seasons? This isn't the same NFL Gibbs walked away from. Just look at his new team. Ed Simmons and Raleigh McKenzie would both be definite starters. Simmons at guard, McKenzie at center. Back in the good, old days, they had trouble getting on the field. Simmons and McKenzie. Two names that tell Gibbs all he needs to know about how things have changed. Is he ready for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Why bother reading it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Why bother reading it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Of course, he also doesn't have to build a team that will have to beat a 49ers team with Steve Young as the backup QB, and Steve Bono as the 3rd stringer. He doesn't have to beat a Bears defence with all stars at each position. He doesn't have to face LT 2-3 times a year. Yes, the NFL has changed, and the dominant teams are no longer as dominant, but all that means is that regular season games are more of a toss-up, while playoff games are not the clashes of titans that they used to be. Oh, and I seem to remember that his playoff record was pretty decent as it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Of course, he also doesn't have to build a team that will have to beat a 49ers team with Steve Young as the backup QB, and Steve Bono as the 3rd stringer. He doesn't have to beat a Bears defence with all stars at each position. He doesn't have to face LT 2-3 times a year. Yes, the NFL has changed, and the dominant teams are no longer as dominant, but all that means is that regular season games are more of a toss-up, while playoff games are not the clashes of titans that they used to be. Oh, and I seem to remember that his playoff record was pretty decent as it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 There is NO WAY the man I saw in the press conference today came back for the money. NONE.:gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 There is NO WAY the man I saw in the press conference today came back for the money. NONE.:gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 His analogy is not really true. The Redskins under Gibbs did not have the greatest depth in the world. Very few teams ever do. A lot of Gibbs backup players were role players who could do one or two things only especially well. His first team that won the Super Bowl had something like 25-30 free agents on it. These were players picked up off waivers and not wanted by other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 His analogy is not really true. The Redskins under Gibbs did not have the greatest depth in the world. Very few teams ever do. A lot of Gibbs backup players were role players who could do one or two things only especially well. His first team that won the Super Bowl had something like 25-30 free agents on it. These were players picked up off waivers and not wanted by other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Putzco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Putzco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt Kyriacou Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Prickso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt Kyriacou Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Prickso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Everyone else except Lenny P. is gushing so he figures he goes the other way in case Gibbs does fail ( ) he can act see I told you look how much I know.... typical hack piece move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Everyone else except Lenny P. is gushing so he figures he goes the other way in case Gibbs does fail ( ) he can act see I told you look how much I know.... typical hack piece move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 All we need now is the Peter King cheap shot, and all will be right in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 All we need now is the Peter King cheap shot, and all will be right in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowghost Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mad Mike There is NO WAY the man I saw in the press conference today came back for the money. NONE.:gus: This was the feeling I got watching him. This man is back because of us fans and he know how much we have suffered since he has been gone. Make no mistake, Gibbs love the Washington Redskins and has come back to right the wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowghost Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Originally posted by Mad Mike There is NO WAY the man I saw in the press conference today came back for the money. NONE.:gus: This was the feeling I got watching him. This man is back because of us fans and he know how much we have suffered since he has been gone. Make no mistake, Gibbs love the Washington Redskins and has come back to right the wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy2Der Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 What i hate is why they are actin like other teams don't have the same problem the salary cap may hold u down. But it holds down everyone and back then there was no salary cap other teams could have great reserve oline men too. That could step in and fill so I hate when peole say stupid stuff like that. It is the same game just different rules just because the rules are different dosent' mean u can't learn to adapt underthem it is just like when you play a basketball game it dosen't mather you played before the 3 point line and before they started regulating shoes dosn't mean you can't still go up there and dunk the ball or beat somebody on sheer ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy2Der Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 What i hate is why they are actin like other teams don't have the same problem the salary cap may hold u down. But it holds down everyone and back then there was no salary cap other teams could have great reserve oline men too. That could step in and fill so I hate when peole say stupid stuff like that. It is the same game just different rules just because the rules are different dosent' mean u can't learn to adapt underthem it is just like when you play a basketball game it dosen't mather you played before the 3 point line and before they started regulating shoes dosn't mean you can't still go up there and dunk the ball or beat somebody on sheer ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 His point about the personnel changes is right on. His suspicions about Gibbs' monetary motives, however, shows you just how little he knows about the man he's writing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 His point about the personnel changes is right on. His suspicions about Gibbs' monetary motives, however, shows you just how little he knows about the man he's writing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Mr Gibbs built three teams in his first tenure. He built a team around Riggo and Joey T. to turn a struggling franchise into one of the best teams in the early '80s. He used the core he had developed as supporting cast in the early '80s to create another contender in '86 and the best team in '87. That team faded. Using that core, he built a contender by 1990, peaked in 1991 with a Super Bowl and was still a contender in 1992. Further, I would submit that, although it would have been a struggle, he could have taken the '93 team and at least made them competitve. He left, in part, because he was not ready to take on another rebuilding project which would have taken time from the last great opportunity to be a 'family man'. This team has a large core. An offensive line that has the potential to be one of the best in the NFL. A talented wr in Coles that appears to be a Gibbs-type. A qb with loads of potential. Some very talented defensive guys like Arrington. He's put together a dream staff who all know how to win! They are excited about the opportunity to coach this team. The players know that the staff knows what its talking about. They know the coaches believe in their talent and that the coaches know what it takes to win. It should not take much to get 'buy-in' from the players who truly want to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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