Serious question: Does Marty come back?

[88Comrade2000]

I think this is a topic that needs to be hashed out for a couple of weeks.

There's no doubt this team some major changes again to make the playoffs in 2002. On the bright side, we have a core already here. Just need to fill in the missing pieces, starting at QB and DT.

The coaching staff needs to be shaken up but will Marty do it? I think we really need a GM but Marty won't give up that kind of control.

If Synder were to make a coaching change, they are risks to it. Credibility for one thing. The Skins did bounce back from 0-5 to go 6-6. Then faded to 6-8 and maybe 7-9 or 6-10. Marty probably deserves another year if he's willing to make some changes. Thing is will he? Do we trust Martyball in 2002?

If Dan fires Marty, then what?

I am willing to give Marty a second chance if he would make some changes. It does take time to erase 7 years of Norv. Thing is, Marty the GM should be MArty the assistant GM and let either this Schnieder guy we hired do the GM duties or hire Ron Wolf.

Even though it seems a given that MArty will be back, I'm not so sure. Changes need to be made, whether he is willing to do that is another thing. IF he isn't then I say let him go. To get the credibility back; you hire Ron Wolf on the spot and let Ron run the show. Hiring the coach, getting the players, etc...

You say I'm crazy but the final two weeks could determine what Dan does in 2002. Whatever he does, it needs to be done immediately. Have that discussion with Marty on the Skins future right after the Card game and make a decision within 48 hours.

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I'm assuming Marty returns but if not; then who do we get?

Discuss away.

[indyskinsfan]

NO WAY MARTY LEAVES THIS YEAR!

He already put a character stamp on this team. Something Norv couldn't do in all his years.

It's him, his staff, and what many thought would be something instead of nothing, (it has been, though still disappointing), by signing Banks. They all have the one tendancy you can't have these days, in order to put a serious winner together. They can get the character problem on track, they can get the talent in many key areas, they can set great goals and do much repair work or even adjust in the game. The one area that hurts them is they are too inflexible often.

When Banks was holding onto doing some things in question towards the end of the 1st half, Both Marty and Raye should have already told Graham to warm up when they come back out on the field. Not only does it send a signal to Banks to cut the bs, it gets the future ready without Banks, should he step on it in the middle of the 3rd Qtr. In the 4th Banks sloathe style and indecision gave the Bears the game, by being their twelf man. I blame the coaching staff, for their unpreparedness, and now maybe even losing Graham in the off-season (someone, who could easily wind up back in NY or go elsewhere as a happy and patient #2, that gives a solid #2 performance).

Marty was too stubborn after the Dallas game, and many of us would have liked to have been fooled with him placing Graham behind center. As it were, the future none could see, Banks looked at least NFLesques against Arizona. But that was a tough Arizona team, so it made Banks headlines look better.

Is that also the problem? Banks may be better than we see, Rayes is strapping him with the wrong ammo and Marty is just waiting till next year to "really" put the house in order, now that he knows he has a team with character??? Well Banks is WYSIWYG, Raye is a dud, and Marty is a little too stubborn at times and it leads to strange decisions in critical games (sound familiar Marty-let the OC do it, you take the D, keep your brother or let him go, with Raye and Banks).

[<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by indyskinsfan on December 24, 2001.]

[ by indyskinsfan on December 24, 2001.]

[bulldog]

Snyder should make no move to replace the coach himself. If Marty is to go, let Snyder hire Ron Wolf or another respected GM and let HIM find a new head coach for the team.

When Snyder fired Norv he admitted he didn't have a plan for the transition and offered the job to Ray Rhodes and Pepper Rodgers before Robiskie ultimately got it.

That lack of planning cost this team a great deal in terms of its ability to find a replacement as GM/Head Coach.

If Wolf comes on board and he and Marty can't work together, nobody is going to jump on Snyder for cynically firing Marty. It will all be couched in football language....

'finding the right fit'......'being comfortable with the staff you have in place'......etc........

and that kind of transition won't prevent Wolf from finding a capable HC as a replacement.

[Art]

Marty's future is in Marty's hands. On a positive side, Green is returning after saying he was retiring because he didn't like Marty. Now, he either understands him, or sees what's happening and is coming back. Bruce may be in the same boat. As I wrote in training camp, Bruce is going to whine and cry and Marty has to come in and work every player hard and without preferencial treatment. But, don't be surprised if there are allowances in the future to keep vets happy. Bruce is one of those vets and I wouldn't, now, be surprised to see him come back.

Marty is showing a somewhat surprising ability to get people that hated him to, if not like him, at least understand him. Hell, I could even see our friend Westbrook reconsidering his future here . But despite the strength of Marty's personality winning over a questioning roster, he HAS to address schematic problems in order to be successful here. We could have Peyton Manning at QB and it wouldn't make a lick of difference with this third-grade passing offense.

You can't make many plays when you don't have people in routes to make them. Banks misses a lot too, but, this isn't all about Banks. Marty will have a meeting in which his boss will rate his job performance. And his boss, like we fans, will tell him how pleased he was with the turnaround and the heart this team shows. The ability battle and continue to be in position to win after a rugged start was great. However, we need to correct some things and here's how I'd like you to do that. Marty's response to his boss will tell you how long he'll be here.

That Raye is Marty's Lynn or Nolan is clear. That Marty's teams promise discipline and execution and we lead the league in false starts tells you that we have bigger problems than Lynn or Nolan or Raye. Marty has to correct some things. He probably will. But, his job is in his hands.

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Doom is in the box.

[OrangeSkin]

Getting rid of Marty would be just plain stupid. Gibbs had almost the same season in 1981, and look what he did. It takes longer than one year to build a winner.

[Guest fuji869]

Why is this even coming up again? As heart breaking as these 3 home losses were, Marty showed a lot by keeping the team together and running off 5 wins! I know that the 2001 Season will be over in 2 weeks but why make a coaching change now and have theses players learn 3 systems in 3 years. Marty got the players to buy into the system and repaired the damage that might have been caused between him and some of the veterans during training camp (like with Darrell). If we gave Norv Seven Season in Washington we can at least give Marty another!

[bulldog]

I don't know if Snyder brings Marty back at 6-10. Perhaps WE would give him another year, but I don't know about Snyder. He has stayed out of the fray but clearly must be steamed after getting the "don't worry, we are going to be contenders" pep talk from Marty in the offseason.

One must admit that the spectre of Ron Wolf lays heavy over the future of Marty here. In a perfect world Wolf could be added and Marty would remain the coach. But I don't believe for an instant that based on the characterisitics of the man Wolf hired to turn around the Packers that he and Marty would ever be bosom buddies.

If Wolf comes on board you can kiss Marty goodbye despite the expensive parting gifts Dan will have to give him and the coaching staff.

It would be interesting to see how Marty would handle such a move as a truculent Schottenheimer complaining about meddling owners wouldn't sit quite right after a 6-10 campaign with as much turmoil as this team went through.

Also, since Wolf or another GM would be the intermediary Marty could not say it was personal because that person would no doubt say his dismissal is for 'football related reasons.'

Of the coaches in the NFC East that have losing records this season, it is apparent that McGinnis and Campo are in danger of being let go. Only Fassell at 7-7 and coming off a Super Bowl appearance seems safe with a .500 record.

Would it surprise me if Marty ended up leaving because of other football decisions made by Snyder?

No.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see Marty make some moves to forestall any action by Snyder by changing elements of the coaching staff, etc.....

No, it won't be Kurt or Brian leaving, but I could definitely see some offensive coaches being let go including Pendry, Mann and/or Raye.

I could also see Marty agreeing to allow Banks to move on based on Snyder's insistence about bringing in an established player for the team to market at qb.

[shamaran]

I'll be surprised to see Marty back with the Redskins.

I think D. Green sees that too.

Drassner has been wanting him out, since his arrival (almost).

I'm not sure the Wolf talk is real, but I do feel Dano will insist on Marty firing Raye, perhaps others. I don't see Marty doing that. If Marty's anything, he's a bulldog about his total control of football operations as it is now, and being taken down a peg, aint goin' to happen -- He's as much as said so already, publically.

Never a dull moment with lil' Dano pulling the strings.

Having said that, I hope I'm wrong and Marty stays -- I like him as a coach.

[Guest B&G]

Personally, I would like to see Marty remain as coach under the following coniditions:

1) He yields to Ron Wolf as GM if Snyder can persuade him to come out of retirement.

2) Regardless of # 1, OC Raye is let go and a young Turk hired.

Having said this, I don't think Marty will accept any diminution of his power and will likely resign if Danno hires Wolf and/or seeks to remove Raye.

I trust Ron Wolf implicitly in football matters and would also be very content for Danno to designate him as Head of Football operations responsible for the draft and the hiring of a new coaching staff.

[Art]

B&G, may I say, I'm not sure we want another Turk in this organization .

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Doom is in the box.

[indyskinsfan]

B&G read this please.

Marty is NOT allowing room from above to correct this and I am personally calling him out. He really intends to gamble against his own team.

What he is doing is only favorable to the Taliban and Al Qeda, because it's "coaching suicide".

This team is now screwed while he uses the exact same staff,

uses Banks for evaluation for two more games (yet the stupid a** says we are not rebuilding????). Give me a fuc***G BREAK!!!!

Banks? C'mon Marty, get your head out of your a**!!!

Sorry, No removal of Raye, hiring of a GM, no money from me and definitely not my cousins or other Family members. Yeah the word spreads like fire, just like the fuc**** losses we have pinned on us with Jimmy Raye and Tony Banks in the most crucial juncture in WINNABLE games. NO EXCUSE. No major injuries for the first time in a critical stretch drive. Only a jack off for an OC, a half ****ed QB (who can't drive and is stuck on the mediocre gear) and dumb as* stubborn coach who wants to be the god of the Redskins, by not allowing a "second" opinion above him and under Snyder.

I regress every nickel and dime I have spent, including the incidents that went from my mother's death, my car breaking down on the exact date I rented the SUV that Braves on the Warpath and I rode to the Skins training camp and got rained out, after the 11-12 hour drive, taking time off from work and away from the one moment my woman and I had time together so I could take my nephews away from gang environments for once in their life and this MF, pushes the obvious aside.

I am crushed, done and will not spend another nickel while he coaches the Redskins with that staff and not allow someone to monitor his better judgement in bringing in winners who know how to play.

I smell Cleveland and KC disappointments with this guys and I have turned on him.

I am not sorry because I haven't done anything except follow this team, day and night and spend money. Norv Turner broke my heart into, but Marty just stomped it.

I will now emphasize the meaning of a boycott and I will now personally remove myself from here, for the sake of the board having other meaningful discussions. I don't want to be a cancer to great group of fans who spend an awful lot of time rooting, discussing and spending on this team. Even the opposing fans had shown respect for us.

I don't want to spoil for everyone else and you can call me what you want. My shoulders are broad, but I must say, when I don't like a product, I DON'T BUY PERIOD. Got that!

O' Danny Boy, what a mess it 'tis.

[88Comrade2000]

Bulldog. If Dan were to hire a GM, then MArty would quit on the spot. Marty will not work with a GM. So I hope Dan tells Marty this. I'm hiring a GM whether you like it or not. If you don't, feel free to leave. The GM will decide the future of this team.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

From what I've read in all of your comments, you guys put most of the blame for the failures this year on Banks. I've seen many of you saying with a better QB, the Redskins are in the playoffs. If that is the case, Marty isn't to blame for the dismal season. Maybe it is his fault for bringing Banks in but now it is up to him to fix that problem. He admits he made a mistake and goes after a better QB. If he doesn't do that and sticks with Banks, than get rid of him. I am basing this on what I've seen of the Skins this year and all of your comments. Plus, I love to just give my opinion. I don't think you can get rid of Marty after what he has done for the Redskins through the injuries and very sporadic play of Banks. He got this team to believe in his system, adapt to it and play hard each week after that 0-5 start. With an upgrade at QB and WR (assuming the Skins front office does improve those areas via free agency/draft) during the offseason, the Redskins will be just as much a threat for the NFC East title and playoffs in 2002 as anyone.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[GURU]

C'mon guys. Let's not be so fickle or panicky.

Marty has earned at least another year as coach and GM. This team has been competative in every game since the first three. The whole attitude of the team has changed drastically. I know it's a cliche and not as good as wins, but the players have never given up, unlike the groups assembled by Marty's predacessor. It bodes well. Look at the Bears. They were very similar last year to this Redskins team. Look at the results this year. They kept key players. They added some key players and kept continuity. They still aren't a finished product, but they are probably the 4th best team in the NFC this season, and are capable of beating anyone. The Skins could be headed in the same direction, and I would hate to see everything go back to square one.

The verdict is still out on Marty as GM. I think we all feel he mishandled the QB sitation, but he did a nice job of finding real players at several positions despite the salary cap situation. Frankly, he's done a nice job managing the cap, so far. He's done a nice job in free agency. Several good finds and solid contributors. The draft looks successful simply because of the play of Smoot and Gardner. But we won't get the whole picture until the others start contributing. He's earned another shot. How he handles the QB position, free agency, and the draft this coming year can't be judged until after next season is over, though.

The thing is, Ron Wolfe will likely still be available after next season, too. He's retired, living in Annopolis, and I don't think he's in any hurry to jump back into the fray. I'm not convinced he'd be so willing to take over in the midst of all the turmoil that would be created by firing Marty and his whole contingent after just one season. It wouldn't speak to well for Snyder, either.

Changes? I don't think there's many changes to be made on defense and special teams. The defense has gelled nicely, there's a nice mix of youth and experience. Some tweeking might help. A true pass rusher. Maybe a runstuffing DT. Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing. I can't remember seeing such a positive attitude on defense in a long, long time.

Our kick coverage is among the best in the league. Our punter is underrated. Our kicker is still young and inconsistant at times, but he's a far cry from the travesty last season. That position could be upgraded, but I wouldn't break the bank to do it. Maybe a young return specialist to develop?

The offense clearly needs work. Gotta find a way to get into the end zone. A QB that the players and the coaching staff have confidence in is the first place to start. The middle of the O-line could be upgraded, but I would still try to re-sign the present starters. Another stud offensive guard prospect is in order. That guy and David Brandt could challenge for starting positions and the result would be great depth.

I think it's too soon to call for Raye's head, too. You can harp all you want about the play calling, but it's a difficult thing to do when Tony Banks is your QB. There's a tenuous balancing act to perform. You want to be cautious and play to strengths, but the only way ANY QB will advance is to put the ball in his hands with the game on the line, sometimes.

After a horrendous start, we've witnessed a remarkable turnaround. It's possible when the team got on a roll, we got our expectations too high. Let's keep things in perspective. There was a lot to be positive about this season. I'm sorry that 16 games is all we'll get, but I look forward to next season with much more anticipation than I have in a while.

Thanks for your perspective, Tom. I'm shocked at some of the venom spewed here. Look, I'm as devoted as any fan here. I'm grumpy after losses, and January is a little more empty without the Skins in the playoffs. But guys, it's just football. Cripes!

[<IMG SRC="http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif" border=0> by GURU on December 25, 2001.]

[ by GURU on December 25, 2001.]

[Montilar]

hey Indy, you need to tell marty the "god of the redskins" position is taken. By one Joe gibbs.

although Darrell and Sonny are probably "godlings"

[redman]

No way Snyder fires Marty, whether we end up 6-10 or 8-8. Snyder's rehabbed both his image, as well as the team's character in one year by hiring Marty and staying out of the way. The only decision he'll make is whether to hire Wolf or someone else as GM, and every indication I read is that that will happen. If that means that Marty wants to quit (something I doubt) or that he'll be "unable to work with the new GM (something I also doubt, but less so), then so be it. But that's too far ahead to predict.

But the bottom line is that Marty stays. He's laid an excellent groundwork for a competitive, young team next year.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.thelocker-room.com/images/RedskinLogo.jpg" border=0> "Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor

[Guest The Angry Buddha]

I think this team needs a GM that has the guts to force Marty and Snyder to focus on their strengths-- essentially to keep Marty from being Marty and Snyder from being, well, Snyder. Marty made some good choices in dumping overpaid personnel as well as finding some good young talent and beefing up special teams. But I fear he will never be good at picking talent for his offense. On the flip side, Snyder will never be accused of not opening his wallet, but would parade pricey free agents here if given the option and draft the flashiest, big name rookies on the board.

A GM is needed that is experienced with juggling strong-willed coaches and owners, as well as picking decent talent on both sides of the ball while keeping the cap in his peripheral vision. Is Ron Wolf that guy? Probably not-- at his age and with retirement a way of life, he'd be more satisfied tooling a draft board than keeping Marty and Snyder from strangling each other. Whoever is brought in must be ambitious, experienced, far from retirement age, and ready to take total control of the front office of this franchise. If Snyder can't find this guy, he should shut his trap and let Marty continue implementing his plans.

On the same subject, I think if the guys go out and beat the Saints and Cards-- or at least fight to the bitter end in both games regardless of outcome-- it would be an endorsement of Marty by his players. If they sleepwalk through these last two, Snyder will have to parade the players into his office for some one-on-one chats to better evaluate his coach.

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[fansince62]

with a bit less rancor....i'm afraid i agree with indy. marty's formula has been and always will be iffy: a truly dominant defese coupled with an adequate, grind it out offense. problem is, we don't have, and will not have, a dominant defense. i continue to believe that T-Bay serves as the prime example that grind-it-out with great defense does not work without a good offense.

[@DCGoldPants]

Marty gets one more year as head coach unless he quits when Danny brings in a GM.

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