webnarc Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 What will signal the end of the war on terrorism? (And something other than "when all the terrorist are dead you dumba$$!" if you can) There hasn't been an attack on American soil in over two years and as far as I can tell, there's only ever been the events of September 11th. This is not to say that attacks have not been suppressed or that the war is not working, I'm just curious as to what the average American thinks will be the end point, given that we don't have exact counts of the number of terrorist worldwide and that 2% of the population is going to be born crazy a$$holes (based on the statistical finding that 2% of the population are sociopaths and are incapable of empathy). Even if we rid the world of all of these people today, tomorrow, someone will birth a sociopath. So, what to you will signal the end of the war and the need to bring American armed forces home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 The scope of this conflict goes far, far beyond the narrow boundaries posed by your question. The real ultimate goal of this 'war' is to pre-empt the threat we don't even want to talk about. Nuclear terrorism. The war won't be declared 'over' until we have an internationally supported apparatus, including intelligence and military assets, that can ensure we won't ever be the victim of a nuclear attack by individuals, rogue states, or other terrorist groups. We simply cannot accept the kind of casualties and disarray commensurate with that kind of attack. So I don't think this war will ever truly end. The genie is out of the bottle. The effort to put it back in will go on for the next 100 years. Until civilized nations have suffered such an attack, I don't believe we'll have the international consensus and cooperation to achieve long-term security from the nuclear terrorist threat. When China, Britain, Russia, and other nations realize they stand to lose cities, millions of their citizens, and perhaps government stability itself, to such threats, terrorism as an effective weapon will be wiped out. Until the time that nuclear terror attacks become feasible (despite the hysteria of XFiles fans, they aren't yet), these nations will continue to wrongly fixate on other nation states as 'the enemy'. They'll discover some day, as we have already begun to do, that chaos, and those that seek to incite it, are the enemy. And nuclear chaos is the most deadly threat. Many question what we'll do about Iran's nuclear ambitions. N. Korea's nuclear ambitions. Pakistan and India's nuclear brinksmenship. I don't know. But I guarantee you the US Government views these developments with deadly seriousness not because of what they might mean for the next 10 years, but what they might mean for the next 50 years. And we WILL go to war to destroy those that seek to acquire and make available these kinds of weapons. Ultimately, we'll have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I kind of see it as an ongoing effort more than a classical war. We are going to continue to put mearsures and policies into place to best defend ourselves from terrorist attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 The most ironic things about terrorism is that depending on which side your on, you can either be seen as a terrorist or a patriot. People seem to forget that the British saw the Boston Tea Party as a terrorist act. Atleast these terrorist are brave enough to show face, we dressed up as Indians. It all depends on whose in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 The most ironic things about terrorism is that depending on which side your on, you can either be seen as a terrorist or a patriot. People seem to forget that the British saw the Boston Tea Party as a terrorist act. Atleast these terrorist are brave enough to show face, we dressed up as Indians. It all depends on whose in power. OY we were under British rule and wanted our freedom. They dressed up as Indians so they could get to the tea in the firstplace and surprise the Brits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 The spirit of rebellion will never stop. It's part of nature. People will always rebel against authority. If there was not discourse, then everything would remain the same. If there wasn't rebellion against England, there would be no America. It's all relative, and should be expected. Like my mom say, what is good for you is death to me. I think we need to see the rebellion entirely before we act. I feel like we only add fuel to the fire. There is no deplomacy when dealing with the issue fueling terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 The spirit of rebellion will never stop. I agree but terrorism is not about rebellion. Terrorism is about trying to bring fear and cause harm to innocent people just to prove a point. Rebellion is going against the rule not the people, there is a big difference there. When we fought for our independence we fought an army not civilians. OY the one thing you don't understand back in those days when armys did fight they had to do it by gentlemen rules. They might not have liked one another but did respect one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Are you seriously trying to suggest that Osama Bin Laden( and those who share the same agenda) is somehow comparable to our founding fathers or the Boston Tea party. Moral relativism, got to love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 People seem to forget that the British saw the Boston Tea Party as a terrorist act. Atleast these terrorist are brave enough to show face, we dressed up as Indians. What exactly is it that the Bin-Ladens are rebelling against, the Three Pence Townshend Tea Tax? All the patriots did in 1773 was empty crates of tea into the sea. Was it an act of terrorism against fish? Because they sure didn't murder any people there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I don't think that the two are related at all. If they were, Osama would be plotting attacks in his own region...not in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 the point I'm trying to raise is that one can see terrorist as patriots. Consequentially, we didn't fight by gentlemen rule in the American Revolution. We had surprise the British, because just like America, Britian was the global leader (hedgy mon if you will). The ereason why it's so hard to cathc Osama is that he represents an ideal, a movement. We as Americans see him as a terrorist. but we are not under American rule. We are citizens of the state. We are not subject to American occupation. Those under American occupation may see Osama as a hero or an agent of change. i think people have to understand that the people are not the target. Getting the message across is the point. Unfortunately people that feel powerless do things to get people in power to listen to them. People forget that two weeks before the 911 attack their was a convention where people from South America, Africa, and the Middle East went to air the grevance against US, and English occupation. What did the delegates from the US and England do, they picked up their things, turned their backs and walked out. Next thing we know the Two symbols of capitalism come tumbling down......I have to say something here. I'm for the truth, and true freedom. Many of you will think I side with the terrorist. You are simply crazy. What I want is ALLLLLLLL people to be free to live the life GOD has intented for them. I wish we could sit down and come up with a diplomatic way to end all the oppression in the world. America should lead that charge, but we don't. And that is something I hope I have a hand in correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 We as Americans see him as a terrorist. OY everyone except his followers think he is a terrorist. Once again we never killed innocent people for our country. We were fighting for a cause, what is his?? He doesn't want land, or government, he wants us to lose our way of life. If you can't see the difference then I do feel sorry for you. They don't want peace, the want us dead. There is a slight difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 if you think all terrorist want is the death of America, then there will never be an end to terrorism. That is not the cause behind Osama anyway. As reported, Osama is mad at America for having armed solidiers in Saudi Arabia. The most ironic thing here is Osama was an ally of America in the Afghanistan Russian war. We have killed innocent people. Have you ever heard of the Guatemala masscre? 3million Guatemalins were slaughtered over what?.....land to raise cattle. Like I said I love this country. I think it's the greatest nation in the world. But we need to start giving others under American occupation the same liberties we have here at home. Until we do that, there will always be terrorism with regards to American interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 As reported, Osama is mad at America for having armed solidiers in Saudi Arabia. Do you honestly think that is the reason he hates us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What about all the other countries that were involved with the gulf war, the entire UN was there. OY please stop with this ignorance it is starting to scare me. He said that so it could seem he has a reason, to gather more support. Does it say in the Koran to kill everyone that steps foot on the holy land??? NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 It says to keep a holy land holy. We should not have ARMED soldiers in Saudi Arabia. It's sort of like having armed soldier from another counrty in the White House. Why do you think Osama hates us? Because we're American.....come on. And in case you haven't notice, the other countries in the Gulf War have their own experience with terrorism, not just us. Why fight it Jboo. It's the same promise of the Ku Klux Klan. Do you really think a bunch of white men would just put a sheet over thier heads just because they hate black people. Maybe so, but the original idea of the KuKlux Klan was clear "stop the ex-slaves from taking all of our jobs". Most moevments, whether good or bad focus on a greviance that a group of people share. AlQieda is no different. Defuse the logical base of their movement, and you cure terrorism. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Like I said before 9-11 may never have taken place if the powerless felt they were heard. America is now an Imperial power. We are a country that try to escape the Imperial power of England. Now we are seen as the power imposing it's will on others. It's time we stop the cycle of the opressor and the oprressed. I beleive we can do that, and usher in a new age of enlightenment. I can dream can't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I just dreamt you justified 9-11, didn't I... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 I can dream can't I? Yes you can dream, but they want us dead, dead, there is a difference of wanted to kill someone then to break away from someone. So you are saying it is okay to just go out and kill hundreds of innocent people just because you don't agree with them??!! If you agree to that then you need some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 Like I said before 9-11 may never have taken place if the powerless felt they were heard. America is now an Imperial power. We are a country that try to escape the Imperial power of England. Now we are seen as the power imposing it's will on others. It's time we stop the cycle of the opressor and the oprressed. I beleive we can do that, and usher in a new age of enlightenment. I can dream can't I? :troll: please. Its the holiday season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Insane ranting aside, I think this thread is salvageable, because webnarc asked a very good question. Here in Australia, pretty much everyone disliked the prime minister, John Howard, and his policies. He's also incredibly uncharismatic and a bit of a buffoon. What he has done extremely successfully is instill a culture of fear. People vote for him because he has convinced everyone that our lives are under constant threat and that he is the only one who can stop it. People begin voting blindly, out of terror, for a security blanket. Howard has instilled far more fear of terrorists in Australia than any jihadist ever could, and he's riding it to political victory after victory. The question can be asked: is the War on Terrorism a war without end? Will it be like the War on Drugs? Will we continue to vote for people in positions of power because they project power and they seem the best barrier to fear? If that's the case, then wouldn't feeding that fear be their best strategy for keeping themselves in power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Ancal You're right, there is a danger that the war could go ever on and on, but let's face a fundamental truth here-- We are not worried about Buddhists nuking a Western city. We are not consumed by fear of Taoist "law" replacing our system of jurisprudence. The war will be won when Islam reforms itself, or at least when the nutcases no longer feel they have the support of the "street" to carry these attacks to their enemies. We know why we're in Iraq--to remove a threat, but also to provide the Middle East, specifically MidEast Arab Musllims with a beacon of WESTERN, yes WESTERN values, one that will inspire them to reform their culture and join the civilized world. They don't have to like us, but maybe the fanaticism, Arab and Muslim-superiority doctrine and genocidal mania inherent in Islam will be extinguished. But it's true, this war could be manipulated for political purposes--heck, I'm sure Musharraf is doing that now, though he's not nearly as bad as some of the Paki alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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