The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[ixcuincle]

11 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Yeah obviously a huge mistake to trade him, rather than let him walk away for nothing. It's not like Abrams and Gore are showing at the MLB level, or Wood and Hassell look promising or anything. I'd rather have nothing.

He had 2.5 years left on his contract when he was dealt. There was no guarantee that he would leave at the end.

 

What ****ed the Nats over was releasing contract details publicly which Soto didn't like. Keep it quiet, then extend him later. Heck other teams had no problem extending their talent.

7 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I am so beyond done with people asking why they traded Turner, Scherzer, and Soto...the answer is obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense in their head.

What about not re-signing Harper?

 

The only one I'll give you all is Rendon. That's it. Because after the WS everyone cried for the Lerners to re-sign Rendon and they did the smart thing at the time by re-signing the pitching in Strasburg.

To this day that Soto trade is indefensible. Worst thing I've seen the franchise do in a while.

 

Letting someone that young with that much potential and caliber go was very controversial. Don't make it out like "everyone agreed the Nats should have done it." Yes, their farm system was ****. Yes, it was replenished with the trade. But Soto is good RIGHT NOW. We don't know how any of those picks we got would pan out. Some have potential like Wood but that's it. Gore is up and down.

[ixcuincle]

Clones, I get being a fan. I do. I'm a season ticket holder for nearly 10 years. I support and love this team.

 

That also means I'm fair to critique anything they do and the Soto / Harper deals were completely botched.

 

I will say though that Trea and Scherzer deal was fair. And yes, I get that 2019 team was one of the oldest, we get that the team was struggling in the minors rankings after all that winning. We get that. But that Soto deal...ick. It still don't sit right with me.

[Ball Security]

7 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

He had 2.5 years left on his contract when he was dealt. There was no guarantee that he would leave at the end.

 

What ****ed the Nats over was releasing contract details publicly which Soto didn't like. Keep it quiet, then extend him later. Heck other teams had no problem extending their talent.

What about not re-signing Harper?

 

The only one I'll give you all is Rendon. That's it. Because after the WS everyone cried for the Lerners to re-sign Rendon and they did the smart thing at the time by re-signing the pitching in Strasburg.

To this day that Soto trade is indefensible. Worst thing I've seen the franchise do in a while.

 

Letting someone that young with that much potential and caliber go was very controversial. Don't make it out like "everyone agreed the Nats should have done it." Yes, their farm system was ****. Yes, it was replenished with the trade. But Soto is good RIGHT NOW. We don't know how any of those picks we got would pan out. Some have potential like Wood but that's it. Gore is up and down.

Again, why hasn’t SD extended Soto? He’s good RIGHT NOW!

[Warhead36]

Soto is so good that the Padres are....in 4th place and 4 games below .500.

 

You wanna pay $500+ Mil to be 4th place? Because that's what would happen.

 

Individual mega stars tend to not win in baseball. You need teams of lots of good players.

[ixcuincle]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Again, why hasn’t SD extended Soto? He’s good RIGHT NOW!

They've got ample time to do so.

 

Why hasn't Anaheim extended Ohtani. Same thing... 

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

He had 2.5 years left on his contract when he was dealt. There was no guarantee that he would leave at the end.

 

Put this as plainly as possible. He. Was. Not. Signing. Here. He even SAID that. He didn't want to sign long term with the ownership questions. Likewise, Boras takes about 98% of his clients--especially ones as high profile as Soto--to free agency. Add to that, it's entirely possible Boras leaked those contract details--that's right up his alley, also.

 

On the other hand Keith Law called the Soto deal a potential Herschel Walker trade for us. It reset out franchise and probably pushed our rebuild--which we needed with or without Soto--ahead at least two years. If Hassell and Susana pan out, it'll be looked back on as a haul for the Nationals. And when Soto leaves the Padres, it'll reflect very poorly on them. We were awful with Soto. I would have loved for him to stay for his career. Rationally though, it didn't make sense to keep him for a couple of years and then lose him for nothing.

 

He. IS. Going. To. Go. To. Free. Agency. You can add all the if's, ands, buts, but it's about as effective as trying to get the sun to rise in the west. Let it go.

 

Oh, you want Turner and his $300m contact? Really? You sure about that one? You might want to go look at Fangraphs.

 

Harper, again, maybe, shoulda, coulda, woulda, didn't. We won the World Series on the players signed with the money that would have gone to him. Would they have signed them any way? Unlikely. I'll take the World Series. I'll always take a title over anything. I will also say it was a costly lesson learned with the Lerners and deferred money. They $440m they offered to Soto had $0 deferred dollars in it.

[ixcuincle]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Oh, you want Turner and his $300m contact? Really? You sure about that one? You might want to go look at Fangraphs.

I nevah said dat. I said the turner scherzer deal was Fair. 

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

They've got ample time to do so.

 

Why hasn't Anaheim extended Ohtani. Same thing... 

You think Ohtani is going to be an Angel in 2024?

 

Why didn’t the Astros extend Cole?

 

Why didn’t the Red Sox extend Betts?

 

Why didn’t the Braves extend Freeman?

[The Evil Genius]

Soto got SD to the NLCS. Can't imagine they see that as a bad deal. 

[ixcuincle]

Just now, Ball Security said:

You think Ohtani is going to be an Angel in 2024?

 

Why didn’t the Astros extend Cole?

 

Why didn’t the Red Sox extend Betts?

 

Why didn’t the Braves extend Freeman?

Money didn't stop the braves from extending acuna Jr. I mean we can Play this game All day 

[The Evil Genius]

Just now, ixcuincle said:

Money didn't stop the braves from extending acuna Jr. I mean we can Play this game All day 

 

Fwiw Ohtani is an outlier. He's going to command more $ per year than anyone so far in MLB, and only FA will set that, not the Angels. 

[ixcuincle]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

 

Why didn’t the Red Sox extend Betts?

 

Because FSG is extremely cheap with the exception of the Yoshida deal. That trade is still being mulled about and ****ed about to this day. A very controversial trade. Giving up Betts (and in some cases letting Xander walk too) were just several examples of Boston mismanagement. At least they re-signed Devers.

Bill Simmons continues to say the Betts deal was one of the worst deals he's ever seen.

https://dodgersnation.com/dodgers-news-the-mookie-betts-trade-still-haunts-bill-simmons/2022/08/08/

[Riggo#44]

Just now, ixcuincle said:

Money didn't stop the braves from extending acuna Jr. I mean we can Play this game All day 

 

You are so incredibly out of touch it's not funny. Acuna signed for a pittance. 8 years, $100m. For arguably the 2nd best player in baseball behind Otani. We offered Turner more than that in 2017, I think.

22 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

But Soto is good RIGHT NOW.

You absolutely right. He's fantastic. And he was leaving. There is absolutely nothing other then "maybe, maybe, maybe." Anyone who knows me on here knows I give -2.4 ****s when it comes to what others think. He was not signing here. So either we let him walk or trade him for a very promising future. Those are the ONLY choices. Everything else you say is fantasy land.

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Soto got SD to the NLCS. Can't imagine they see that as a bad deal. 

If you were to poll the fans, I’d bet you get a different answer.

 

If in 2009 the Giants (I believe you are a Giants fan) traded Posey, Bumgarner and three other legit prospects and made the NLCS in like they did in 2010, but nothing else, would you view that as a success?

[Riggo#44]

In the last couple of years, the Dodgers have let Corey Seager, Max Scherzer, Trea Turner, and Manny Machado leave. Cheap ****s

[ixcuincle]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

In the last couple of years, the Dodgers have let Corey Seager, Max Scherzer, Trea Turner, and Manny Machado leave. Cheap ****s

They also signed Freddie Freeman. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by ixcuincle

[The Evil Genius]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

If you were to poll the fans, I’d bet you get a different answer.

 

If in 2009 the Giants (I believe you are a Giants fan) traded Posey, Bumgarner and three other legit prospects and made the NLCS in like they did in 2010, but nothing else, would you view that as a success?

 

Of course not. But I don’t see the Padres winning 3 world series in 5 years from 2022 to 2026 (with the guys they traded and no Soto). So that's a loaded question. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by The Evil Genius

[Riggo#44]

Just now, ixcuincle said:

They also signed Freddie Freeman so this argument is ingenuous. 

I dunno, I am not really innocent, I am kind of an asshole...(the word you're looking for is disingenuous).

 

We also signed Stephen Strasburg and spent a ton on players over 10-11 years, so you're constant griping about the Nationals not paying players is just as bad.

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Of course not. But I don’t see the Padres winning 3 world series in 5 years from 2022 to 2027 (with the guys they traded and no Soto). . 

Sure. But for SD, the deal was that they’d blow up their future for a three year run gunning for their first World Series Championship. In year 2, they may not crack .500. That has to be a let down.

 

They could be in much better position if they kept Gore and Abrams and used the Boegarts money elsewhere.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Of course not. But I don’t see the Padres winning 3 world series in 5 years from 2022 to 2027 (with the guys they traded and no Soto). So that's a loaded question. 

 

What if the Nats do? I am certainly not saying they WILL, that would be stupid. But in 2008 or 09, did you think that core would win World Series in 10 and 12? (I cannot acknowledge 2014 without a sharp shooting pain in my forehead...****ing Matt Williams.)

 

Abrams is on absolute fire right now. Over his last 27 games or so, he has over a 90% contact rate, with a 89.1 EV, K-ing less than 20% with a 140-something WRC+, as a 22 yr old. Small sample size, but damn, that's exciting. Gore is up and down, as a 24-yr old with 70 IP total in the majors would be, but his potential is tangible. Plus, when I watch him, he's got a bit of Max in him. Wood is one of the top prospects in baseball, while Hassell and Susana have scuffled this year--but there's still time for them. Hassell is recovering from several wrist injuries.

It's either grief or nothing. Given the choice, I choose grief.

[TheGoodBits]

We’ve obviously got an absolutely stacked future outfield so I view the odds of this happening as fairly unlikely, but I could see the Nats being at least sort of in the market for Juan Soto once he hits FA after next season. Would just have to figure out which OF to move to 1B (where we have a hole anyway). 
 

A lot of that possibility rides on how close we feel we are to contention and also the ownership situation. 

[The Evil Genius]

9 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

What if the Nats do? I am certainly not saying they WILL, that would be stupid. But in 2008 or 09, did you think that core would win World Series in 10 and 12? (I cannot acknowledge 2014 without a sharp shooting pain in my forehead...****ing Matt Williams.)

 

...
It's either grief or nothing. Given the choice, I choose grief.

 

My experience is that fans in general get way too excited about minor league prospects. I'd rather have the sure thing 23yo like Soto than 4 or 5 guys that may or may not ever pan out.

 

But I do understand the excitement. It's just as a Giants fan, I've seen too many can't miss guys flop when it comes to the majors. 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

My experience is that fans in general get way too excited about minor league prospects. I'd rather have the sure thing 23yo like Soto than 4 or 5 guys that may or may not ever pan out.

 

That's really an oversimplification though, that ignores the core of the issue: Soto for 2.5 years or that haul for 6-7, maybe more? It also entirely depends on where the franchise is at. If we were contending for the division, then you hold onto him--like they did with Harper in 2018 (also, the rumored trade packages sucked). They also offered Soto a HUGE contract, that he turned down. So a rebuilding club, 107-loss team, that knows they have no shot to resign him, or an influx of young talent?

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

But I do understand the excitement. It's just as a Giants fan, I've seen too many can't miss guys flop when it comes to the majors

 

Every team does. I don't expect all 5 to be all-stars. It'd be great, but if Gore, Abrams and Wood hit? And Hassell is ok? That's an absolute win for a player that wasn't going to be here anyway.

[The Evil Genius]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

That's really an oversimplification though, that ignores the core of the issue: Soto for 2.5 years or that haul for 6-7, maybe more? It also entirely depends on where the franchise is at. If we were contending for the division, then you hold onto him--like they did with Harper in 2018 (also, the rumored trade packages sucked). They also offered Soto a HUGE contract, that he turned down. So a rebuilding club, 107-loss team, that knows they have no shot to resign him, or an influx of young talent?

 

Every team does. I don't expect all 5 to be all-stars. It'd be great, but if Gore, Abrams and Wood hit? And Hassell is ok? That's an absolute win for a player that wasn't going to be here anyway.

 

I meant that for the Padres (think the trade made sense for both teams).. 

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

I meant that for the Padres (think the trade made sense for both teams).. 

 

Fair, and I think you're right. But this season has to be a kick in the dinger for them...plus a 57-45 expected record...

I also fully expect Dan Sny...I mean Steve Cohen to give Soto $600m and the Mets still be mediocre at best.