Captain Wiggles Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 What's considered classy if you're rich and trashy if you're poor? Receiving money from the government. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: I think this is a pretty funny statement to make. Considering how much money Musk has captures from the government among his separate ventures. His companies are the only US ones capable of doing what the US government wants. Only company capable of sending Astronauts to space, most reliable and cost effective way to send military satellites into space, only US manufacture to offer EVs at an affordable price…. 13 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: I don't have any issue with the government providing subsidies to emerging industries or to help steer industry to beneficial outcomes that need short term support to provide stability. which is what Tesla and Elon received and delivered… 13 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: I do have an issue with someone stating that subsidies are bad because they don't need them, when they have been a major beneficiary of them over time Elon didn’t say subsidies are bad. He said that EV subsidies were no longer necessary. So you have a problem with Elon recognizing that things have change over time and now Subsidies are no longer required in order to convince someone to buy an EV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Is @CousinsCowgirl84literally employed by Elon Musk or something? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Bezos sent captain Kirk into space so clearly others besides Musk are in fact capable of sending folks. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, clietas said: Bezos sent captain Kirk into space so clearly others besides Musk are in fact capable of sending folks. 😉 NO. Only Elon Musk can be the savior we need. He alone can fix everything. Only Elon Musk. ONLY EVER ELON MUSK. HAIL MUSK! HAIL MUSK! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: His companies are the only US ones capable of doing what the US government wants. Only company capable of sending Astronauts to space, most reliable and cost effective way to send military satellites into space, only US manufacture to offer EVs at an affordable price…. I'm going to preface this as someone who works for the government and is a contracting officer reviewing and awarding contracts. This does not mean he is the only company that can do this. SpaceX was determined to be the best based on the criteria established by selection committee. Without reviewing the award documentation that is likely OFUO this statement is incomplete. Affordable price is a relative term, I'm not going to get into that here. Quote which is what Tesla and Elon received and delivered… He did, no argument from me on this. Quote Elon didn’t say subsidies are bad. He said that EV subsidies were no longer necessary. Disagree, subsidies help drive people that would not typically be involved in that type of purchase. See the Ford Lightning. Quote So you have a problem with Elon recognizing that things have change over time and now Subsidies are no longer required in order to convince someone to buy an EV? I didn't say that. Things change but I disagree that subsidies are not required to buy an EV. Subsidies can be the deciding factor in someone moving to the EV from ICE, to shorten the adoption window we should do whatever we can. I say this a person who recently purchased a 2022 VW Atlas for my wife. A subsidy would be a driving factor when I replace are next car, when that time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: I'm going to preface this as someone who works for the government and is a contracting officer reviewing and awarding contracts. This does not mean he is the only company that can do this. spaceX absolutely is the only US company with a space craft certified by the government for orbital human flight. 14 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: SpaceX was determined to be the best based on the criteria established by selection committee. Without reviewing the award documentation that is likely OFUO this statement is incomplete. well, go ahead and present evidence that reusable rockets aren’t the cheapest way to launch spacecraft/satellites. I’ll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: spaceX absolutely is the only US company with a space craft certified by the government for orbital human flight. I didn't follow the award process, nor do I work for NASA and have access to their evaluation criteria. Without that information, this statement is again, incomplete at best. The bottom line here is that spaceX was awarded the contract vehicle, but at the end of the day that does not mean they are the only company capable of providing the service. 3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: well, go ahead and present evidence that reusable rockets aren’t the cheapest way to launch spacecraft/satellites. I’ll wait. Again, I didn't say that. I said they are not the only company capable of providing the service, this was a competitive procurement and not a sole source. You're making the argument that they are the least expensive. I'm not making that argument and I don't have access to that information neither do you. At the end of the day this started with saying that Musk greatly benefited from subsidies. That doesn't change with any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: I didn't follow the award process, nor do I work for NASA and have access to their evaluation criteria. Without that information, this statement is again, incomplete at best. The bottom line here is that spaceX was awarded the contract vehicle, but at the end of the day that does not mean they are the only company capable of providing the service. . you don’t have to work for the government to google which us companies are capable of human space flight. You are being disingenuous. 9 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: At the end of the day this started with saying that Musk greatly benefited from subsidies. That doesn't change with any of this. fair enough but don’t make bad argument based on objectively false statements. It’s a bad look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: spaceX absolutely is the only US company with a space craft certified by the government for orbital human flight. Oh sure...maybe right now. But me and my friends are exploring alternatives... Obviously the details are highly technical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: you don’t have to work for the government to google which us companies are capable of human space flight. You are being disingenuous. Again, this is not what I'm saying. I could google it and read about it, but that is not the original point and it won't tell me what they considered in the selection process or how it compared to other proposals. While that may have been a major factor it wasn't the only factor in the selection process. You're turning the conversation away from the original point and focusing on a single aspect that you have brought into the conversation regarding a government awards. It was about subsidies and that his companies received major ones and he is now sayin EVs no longer need them after he was a major beneficiary. -Edit- For the sake of this also, this will be my last response regarding spaceX and government awards. COMMERCIAL CREW BASICS (NASA) NASA's Commercial Crew Program has worked with several American aerospace industry companies to facilitate the development of U.S. human spaceflight systems since 2010. The goal is to have safe, reliable and cost-effective access to and from the International Space Station and foster commercial access to other potential low-Earth orbit destinations. NASA selected Boeing and SpaceX in September 2014 to transport crew to the International Space Station from the United States. These integrated spacecraft, rockets and associated systems will carry up to four astronauts on NASA missions, maintaining a space station crew of seven to maximize time dedicated to scientific research on the orbiting laboratory. Edited December 9, 2021 by GoSkinsGo Added Boeing information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, GoSkinsGo said: It was about subsidies and that his companies received major ones and he is now sayin EVs no longer need them after he was a major beneficiary. What it was about was some lady trashing Elon musk with a list of bull****, but re: subsidies So he was for it before he was against it. Woooo. That is exactly what he is saying. He is entitled to his opinion. Certainly. And what he is saying is that Tesla no longer needs them. So what? 1 hour ago, clietas said: Bezos sent captain Kirk into space so clearly others besides Musk are in fact capable of sending folks. 😉 Orbital is the key word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoCommiesGo Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: That is exactly what he is saying. He is entitled to his opinion. Certainly. And what he is saying is that Tesla no longer needs them. He can change his opinion. I just think it's odd for someone to say to remove them when they were a primary beneficiary. Nothing more nothing less. This conversation is circular and we are not going to agree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Orbital is the key word. Blue Origin has passed the Kármán line correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, clietas said: Blue Origin has passed the Kármán line correct? Yes, but it is not orbital space flight. The rocket could only go up and then down. Into space and out of space. Not around space, which is much more useful. Blue origin can’t dock with the space station or launch satellites into orbit. Blue origin wasn’t designed with those things in mind though, it is chiefly a tourism vehicle. Edited December 9, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 So musk doesn’t want BBB because it’ll add to the debt, but thinks infrastructure is important. wheres he at on the increase in taxes so it doesn’t add debt? hmmmm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tshile said: So musk doesn’t want BBB because it’ll add to the debt, but thinks infrastructure is important. a little more nuanced, he doesn’t want the BBB because it contains subsidies he thinks are no longer necessary. And I think he tired of all the grief he gets for taking subsidies from Democrats while refusing to tow the party line. 3 minutes ago, tshile said: wheres he at on the increase in taxes so it doesn’t add debt? He thinks he spends his money better than the government does. (I’m personally fine with Raising taxes/wealth tax) Edited December 9, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said: a littleMore nuanced, he doesn’t want the BBB because it contains subsidies he thinks are no longer necessary. because his company has already gotten them, used them up, and he doesn’t want competition. Gee. Imagine that. Just now, CousinsCowgirl84 said: He thinks he spends his money better than the government does. (I’m personally fine with Raising taxes/wealth tax) Yeah a lot of people say that. Curious how many of them have followed the research Petermp has shared here about how that’s not actually true at all. I’m guessing none of them. His answers are standard, canned rich person that doesn’t want taxes raised. Nothing more. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, tshile said: because his company has already gotten them, used them up, and he doesn’t want competition. well, actually the BBB would give his company new subsidies. I imagine you’d feel the same way Elon does if the government was trying to take 35-50 percent of your income and on top of that tax it again with a wealth tax. Edited December 9, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: well, actually the BBB would give his company new subsidies. Right I understand that. But it also gives other companies additional subsidies; companies trying to compete with him that haven’t used up the ones he’s used up. i don’t blame him for not wanting the government to help foster competition. He’s a private business owner in a capitalist market - he’s profit driven and competition doesn’t help his business. Competition helps consumers. but I do blame him for being (I think, intentional) dishonest and misleading. and I blame people who just eat that stuff up without thinking about it, then repeat it as if it’s some sort of high quality argument. (I otherwise take no issue with the other things you’re posting) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Yes, but it is not orbital space flight. The rocket could only go up and then down. Into space and out of space. Not around space, which is much more useful. Blue origin can’t dock with the space station or launch satellites into orbit. Blue origin wasn’t designed with those things in mind though, it is chiefly a tourism vehicle. You said Musks company is the only one that can currently reach space. Bezos has been to space on blue origin passing the Kármán line. Now it's orbits n docking? Edited December 9, 2021 by clietas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, clietas said: You literally said Musk is the only one that can currently reach space. I said orbital space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I said orbital space. Eventually butt not initially. 😉 Quote His companies are the only US ones capable of doing what the US government wants. Only company capable of sending Astronauts to SPACE, most reliable and cost effective way to send military satellites into SPACE, only US manufacture to offer EVs at an affordable price…. Yuuuuuup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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