Davis at the Goal Line

[pauldeluxe]

Everybody is talking about whether or not Davis reached the ball out and broke the plane on that last TD, but I think everyone's ignoring the real issue.

His forward progress stopped LONG BEFORE he reached the ball out. It's IRRELEVANT whether it broke the plane or not, because he was down when his forward motion stopped. That's the call the refs blew -- they never whistled him down when he stopped moving forward.

Am I the only one that sees this? Or am I an idiot and totally wrong?

Feel free to let me have it!

:hammer:

[OURYEAR#56]

You not alone brotha. I don't know about the forward progress, but I know we got robbed.

[ktball74]

The bottom line. The Skins will get those calls when they become a better/winning team.

[Funkyalligator]

Either he was down by contact prior to ball coming close to the goal line or he fumbled the ball. One or the other, no touchdown here.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Funkyalligator...the most likely result would have been down by contact which would have meant that Carolina scores on 3rd or 4th down (95% chance I would say).

All this would have accomplished is giving us less time to get into FG range IMO.

[Chief skin]

Defense took a $hit again, it should never have come down to that play in the first place. Defense did not protect the lead they allowed the panthers to march right down the field. Same old pathetic $hit from this team

[Joe Sick]

Originally posted by Chief skin

Defense took a $hit again, it should never have come down to that play in the first place. Defense did not protect the lead they allowed the panthers to march right down the field. Same old pathetic $hit from this team

I don't know about you, but I wasn't expecting #48 to catch a pass and run it 25 yards.

I mean, one of the main reasons we cut him was because he couldn't catch.

That play was the killer.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Good point VT, but a defensive coordinator's job is to "expect" everything. He actually did his job, his players (read: Trotter) let him down on that play.

[Cskin]

Good point VT, but a defensive coordinator's job is to "expect" everything. He actually did his job, his players (read: Trotter) let him down on that play.

Which is the principle problem with the defense to this point. It's the egomaniacs on the defense, Trotter... Arrington... Smith, that shuck their assignments and leaving gaping holes in the defense that even an average offense can exploit.

On that particular play, Trotter's responsiblity was for Davis..... and Spurrier said Trotter throught Davis was just blocking. Did it ever occur to Trotter that Davis might feign blocking and then slip out as the safety valve in case of the blitz? That's the problem with Trotter... Arrington... and others.... they DON'T THINK..... THEY LOOSE FOCUS..... AND THEY LOOSE THE TEAM GAMES!!!!!!

Trotter should be benched this week.... since it was his missed assignment that resulted in a 25 yard gain.... as an example of what happens to starters when they loose focus and miss assignments. END OF STORY!!!!!!

[pauldeluxe]

I know this thought crossed all of our minds, but do you think Spurrier ever considered just letting Carolina score that TD quickly to leave us more time to march down and score before time ran out?

I know that goes against a coach's instincts (and players, too), but given the way our defense had played, there was no question Carolina would score. It was just a matter of how much time they left us for one last try.

[halter91]

that was a BS call. I agree completely that he was stopped and then he failed to cross the goal line anyway. Reminds me of the Big 10 referee's.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

pauldeluxe, that's an interesting theory. i was yelling at the tv for us to start using our timeouts...but i guess we ended up having more than enough time to get the 35 or so yds for a FG...we just didn't move the ball.

holmgren did this vs. the broncos in the SB a few years back...

[Joe7]

It should not have come down to that play. David Terrell dropped a game-ending interception on the Panthers' first play of the drive. Then, on fourth and one, Trotter doesn't even put up his arms to either a) block the pass or obscure Delhomme's view of Stephen Davis, if he jumps up in the air as he gets close to the QB, the pass is not complete, and we take over on downs. That, to me, is where we lost the game. Steve Smith makes a great catch, and Davis took over from there, we were holding him in check pretty much the whole game but we always seem to wear down in the 4th quarter.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Joe7, I agree. In actuality, I thought Terrell's drop was the biggest play of the drive....but anyway, you're right...when a team goes 70 yards in 7 plays to win the game, you can point to a number of screwups!

[Panthers_Lover]

FYI:

Director of officiating: Davis scored on play

NFL's top ref says replay confirms Panther broke plane of end zone

PAT YASINSKAS

Staff Writer

Mike Pereira, the NFL's director of officiating, said Tuesday officials made the right call on Stephen Davis' late touchdown in the Carolina Panthers victory against Washington on Sunday.

Davis scored on a run with 1 minute, 9 seconds left to give the Panthers a 20-17 victory. Officials called the play, where Davis stretched the ball toward the goal line, a touchdown. The play was reviewed by replay officials, who ruled there was inconclusive evidence to change the call.

Pereria discussed the play on the new NFL network, using a telestrator and several replay angles.

"The replay confirmed it, and I really think it was an outstanding call," Pereira said. "The official is looking right down the line and makes a great call."

The ball was knocked from Davis' hands, but Pereira said that came after the plane of the end zone was broken. Several Redskins said after the game they didn't think the ball crossed the plane and they should have been awarded possession by a fumble recovery.

"To me, it appears to be a touchdown because the ball breaks the plane," Pereira said. "But remember that (the ball) is dead as soon as it breaks the plane. So when it's knocked away a little bit afterwards, that's a dead ball he's knocking away."

[Storm]

Im really tired of discussing this.

Lets just put it to bed and chalk it up as another close call we didnt get. Once we become better, these calls will hopefully go our way.

Okay next topic...

[Pete]

Pauldelux, Davis was on top of other players when he reached out with the ball. His knee's hadn't hit the ground, and the whistle hadn't blown yet, which I'm pretty sure makes it a live ball. By the time Bowens hit it, the ball had crossed the line and instantly became a dead ball.

Should the whistle have been blown sooner:rubeyes: Judgment call I would say. I agree that it shouldn't have come down to that play, but it did, and here we are going over it once again.

I agree most with Storm..........................let it go.................

[HapHaszard]

I reran that play several times on TIVO and to me it looked like the ball crossed the plane, but it also look to me like Steven's butt was on the ground before he moved the ball forward, it seemed he shoved his body forward after he was on the ground the first time. I think it could have been called either way. The angles I saw just didn't give enough detail to be sure. It could have been the red I was seeing after that series also:silly:

[JimboDaMan]

OK, my final post on the subject.

First, I still think Stephen was losing the ball even before Bowen popped it out. As his arm reaches the top of its arc, well before the goal line, it is clearly moving. Not something I expect the refs to see in live action, but on the replay it strengthens the argument that this was a fumble.

But more important, this was not an "outstanding call" as the league goober called it. Even if you think the replay upheld the call, this was no more than a guess by the officials. There's no way in live action those guys can accurately call a play that close. In those circumstances, with the game on the line, the correct call is a fumble and Redskin recovery. Why? Because if the call is wrong you can fix it. After a review, if the ball crossed the plane, you can award the TD to Carolina. But if you make the original call the other way - TD - you can't fix it no matter what you see on replay. The best you can do is call it Carolina ball inside the one and they get an undeserved second chance.

Finally, after the review, the correct call would be Carolina ball at the one. This play is too close to call with any certainty. If you call the TD or the Skins recovery the game is essentially over, decided on a figurative toss of the coin. Put it at the one - just call it forward progress stopped and be done with it - and let the teams decide the game on the field.

[OrangeSkin]

Excellent point, Jimbo.

[bulldog]

why don't we just do away with replay and go back to the days when the ball had to STAY in the end zone for it to be a touchdown

On Kornheiser's show this week he parodied the NFL's attempt to get everything 100% correct on some arcane formula by intimating that he did not see the ball break the 'plane' of the goal line but merely saw it readjust and irritate some of the molecules of that 'plane' :laugh:

he then asked if THAT counts

[SonnyJ]

Jimbo's point has been my main beef with the call. How on earth could that official have called that a TD in the first place.

If nothing else, the replay conclusively shows that the call was anything but clearcut. How can that official call that a TD when it was not CLEARLY a TD? As Jimbo said, he guessed. He saw Davis extending the ball and just figured he was going to make it, w/o waiting for the play to completely unfold. An absolutely blown call.

From my biased view, it was a fumble. I can't say for certain that it didn't cross the plane, but no one can say convincingly that it did, either. The NFL is just covering its own with their statement.

For you entreprenuers out there, if you could develop a system where you embed a sensor in a football that would trigger a light once the goal line "plane" is broken, you might become a rich man. Hell, you could even extend it to the first down markers.

I'm just an ideas guy. I have no idea how you could actually accomplish such a thing.

[bulldog]

haven't you ever heard of home cookin' ?

the refs were in Carolina so it was a touchdown :laugh:

if the game was in Washington it either would have been a fumble or a stop at the half yard line.

[SonnyJ]

You got that, Bulldog.

What I thought was interesting was how the referee, after reviewing the play, said the replay was inconclusive. Not "The call on the field was correct."

It's been my experience that the referee will affirm his crew member's call if at all possible. Basically, he said that he couldn't tell one way or another, so he had to let the call on the field stand.

Yet, the director of officials wants to sell us a line about how it was an outstanding call, when his own review guys at the game, both on the field and in the booth, thought it was certainly questionable.

I knew there was no way it would be overturned. Not because the replay was inconclusive - I've seen what I thought was inconclusive and the ref thought it was - but because they were in Carolina. The guy knew that he and his crew would have to leave the stadium at some point. :mad:

[ThatGuy]

Anyone ever watch tennis??

They have that super slow motion camera that they show on close line calls. The NFL should throw one of those on each side of the goal line and go from there. I'm sure it wouldn't take much of a computer genius to set a line straight up from the goal line and make the whole thing EASY to see.

The other baffling thing to me is why does the damn REFEREE have to go over there and watch the play. Subconcisously they've got to be hoping their original call is right, and if its as tight as this call one, there are going to stick with their call. Have a couple of doods in a booth somewhere watching this stuff. Save everyone the time of having to watch the ref trot across the field, throw on the headset, talk to the doods upstairs, check the camera, talk some more, back to the camera, run back on the field, make the announcement, then run back to where the play is actually taking place.