Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 it seems rather obvious he was using a prior example of persecution....to me. Predicto....didn't play along?....ya mean booed a speech at a conference on tolerance So instead of giving prior examples of Christian persecution he focused on Jewish persecution - which led to the creation of Israel - which that audience clearly sees as a persecutor and oppressor today? Way to know your audience, Mr. Champion Debater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So instead of giving prior examples of Christian persecution he focused on Jewish persecution - which led to the creation of Israel - which that audience clearly sees as a persecutor and oppressor today? Way to know your audience, Mr. Champion Debater. He wasn't there to win a debate. He was there to get soundbites for American Christian conservatives to hear. And he succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Perhaps because he came to a conference about tolerance, with a speech about supporting an apartheid government? Just a theory. a very religious tolerant one..... tolerance there is in short supply,as are manners obviously. It would be interesting to here where he would go in the speech w/o the boos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So instead of giving prior examples of Christian persecution he focused on Jewish persecution - which led to the creation of Israel - which that audience clearly sees as a persecutor and oppressor today? Way to know your audience, Mr. Champion Debater. odd some there would see them as persecutors and oppressors of Christians....oh wait , you mean persecutors and oppressors of something besides what the conference was about. what better example would you offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 odd some there would see them as persecutors and oppressors of Christians....oh wait , you mean persecutors and oppressors of something besides what the conference was about. what better example would you offer? A better example of a place where persecuted Christians can look to for hope? That's a toughie..... Hmmmmm...... I would go with........ USA! USA! USA! Unless you want to do what Predicto suggested - create a soundbyte to play to Evangelicals in Iowa in South Carolina in 2016 - one wouldn't go in front of a room filled with a lot of Arab Nationalists and talk about the glory of Israel. Unless, again, the point was to create red meat for Evangelicals who love Israel and are going to think that was a room full of Muslims anyway. Most of the people in that room were probably - more or less - all right with the Hussein and Assad regimes. Christians could practice in those countries as long as they didn't make waves. American Evangelicals no more understand the churches in the Middle East than they do quantum physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Why not just use Israel since it is in the region ? The sound bite would be the boos ,not the example of Israel. ....the example is old news. what makes you think you understand American evangelicals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Why not just use Israel since it is in the region ? Because an audience of Arab nationalists is not going to see Israel as some beacon of freedom. what makes you think you understand American evangelicals? Because I grew up one. And I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 what makes you think you understand American evangelicals? Because I grew up one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I grew up a American, that make me qualified to speak for ya'll? Israel is UNDOUBTEDLY a beacon of freedom for Christians in the region, amazing what some want to overlook . the Arab nationalists are apparently putting that before the Christian persecution issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Israel is UNDOUBTEDLY a beacon of freedom for Christians in the region, amazing what some want to overlook . Clearly that is not the case as Christians from the region where booing the very idea of that. This is why I am criticizing American Evangelicals. They have warped the idea of Israel - a country created as a homeland for a terribly oppressed minority - into some kind of totem of Biblical prophecy. And then, in further madness, they take the leap from this very specific American Protestant view of Christianity (I have never heard a Catholic speak about Israel as reverently as American Protestants from the South do) and they foist that idea on everyone else - including American Jews. American Jews do not necessarily agree with Ted Cruz's views on Israel. So why does he (or you) presume that Arab Christians would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Clearly that is not the case as Christians from the region where booing the very idea of that. This is why I am criticizing American Evangelicals. They have warped the idea of Israel - a country created as a homeland for a terribly oppressed minority - into some kind of totem of Biblical prophecy. And then, in further madness, they take the leap from this very specific American Protestant view of Christianity (I have never heard a Catholic speak about Israel as reverently as American Protestants from the South do) and they foist that idea on everyone else - including American Jews. American Jews do not necessarily agree with Ted Cruz's views on Israel. So why does he (or you) presume that Arab Christians would? weren't they booing because they were letting nationalistic issues intrude? many evangelicals certainly have a warped view of Israel,just as many Arabs do.....both can be guilty of focusing on other matters than the Christian persecution the conference was addressing. booing at a conference calling for tolerance is not kosher and is probably haram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 booing at a conference calling for tolerance is not kosher and is probably haram. Admiring how many times you seem to feel like pointing out that booing at a conference is some horrible breach of manners, whereas leading a cheer for an apartheid nation at the same venue, you're cool with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Admiring how many times you seem to feel like pointing out that booing at a conference is some horrible breach of manners, whereas leading a cheer for an apartheid nation at the same venue, you're cool with. Admiring your objection to his example of a religiously persecuted people embracing religious freedom for all.(despite their failings elsewhere) Same blind spot some of those booing while tolerating Assad/Hezbollah's excesses ? Do you think the booing proper in that setting? It is comical why is one more tolerable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 i love it... cruz PURPOSELY lobs a hand grenade to get the exact reaction he did... and TWA immediately falls into marionette mode. what would you think of an individual that chose to bring a picture of a blood and urine drenched crucifix to a christian ministry convention? hell... he's just "promoting art" ..... who can be mad at the promotion of art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 interesting response and imagery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Admiring your objection to his example of a religiously persecuted people embracing religious freedom for all.(despite their failings elsewhere) Ah, I see we've run from trying to pretend that "well, they don't discriminate against Christians" somehow qualifies then for the label of "tolerant", to outright falsehood. Oh, wait, let me guess. "Well, they allow other religions to exist, they just don't allow them to own property". Is that the next attempted deflection? Or were you thinking more along the lines of "They don't discriminate against the Palestinians religion, they discriminate against their race"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 are you claiming they cannot own land in Israel O Truth Seeker?.....or just playing games as usual MYTH “Israeli Arabs are barred from buying land in Israel.” FACT In the early part of the century, the Jewish National Fund was established by the World Zionist Congress to purchase land in Palestine for Jewish settlement. This land, and that acquired after Israel’s War of Independence , was taken over by the government. Of the total area of Israel, 92 percent belongs to the State and is managed by the Land Management Authority. It is not for sale to anyone, Jew or Arab. The remaining 8 percent of the territory is privately owned. The Arab Waqf (the Muslim charitable endowment), for example, owns land that is for the express use and benefit of Muslim Arabs. Government land can be leased by anyone, regardless of race, religion or sex. All Arab citizens of Israel are eligible to lease government land. In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose. 30 Meanwhile, in 1996, the Palestinian Authority (PA) Mufti, Ikremah Sabri, issued a fatwa (religious decree), banning the sale of Arab and Muslim property to Jews. Anyone who violated the order was to be killed. At least seven land dealers were killed that year. 31 On May 5, 1997, Palestinian Authority Justice Minister Freih Abu Middein announced that the death penalty would be imposed on anyone convicted of ceding “one inch” to Israel. Later that month, two Arab land dealers were killed. A year later, another Palestinian suspected of selling land to Jews was murdered. The PA has also arrested suspected land dealers for violating the Jordanian law (in force in the West Bank), which prohibits the sale of land to foreigners. 32 An Islamic judge renewed the fatwa barring Palestinians from selling property to Jews in 2008 and, as recently as June 2010, a Palestinian was imprisoned for 10 years on charges of selling land to Israel. 33 http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFrights.html#6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 are you claiming they cannot own land in Israel O Truth Seeker?.....or just playing games as usual Funny, I seem to recall reading, several times, that since Israel seized Jerusalem, Israeli policy has been that it is illegal for any non-Jew to acquire land in Jerusalem. That non-Jews were allowed to retain land they already owned (unless they fled the invading Army, in which case, well, they just voluntarily gave their land to the Israeli government, and for free, too.) But that, even if they did not flee from the war, then, when they die, that land is required, by law, to be sold to a Jew. The land owner's children cannot even acquire the land through inheritance. But I'm not finding it with a quick Google. (Although I am finding some things which I wasn't aware of. Like the fact that only 6.5% of the land in Israel is privately owned, at all. All of the rest is either owned by the government, or by a private trust, both of which are required to lease (but not sell) that land, exclusively to Jews.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 interesting response and imagery too far over the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 too far over the top? equating his remarks before the booing to lobbing a grenade or the stained crucifix seems excessive. but maybe I'm not as sensitive to the offended ones delicate sensibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 but maybe I'm not as sensitive to the offended ones delicate sensibilities. Says the guy who's probably made four posts complaining about the crowd's failure to follow proper manners, thus justifying The Offended One's fleeing the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Cruz's speech reminded me of this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Says the guy who's probably made four posts complaining about the crowd's failure to follow proper manners, thus justifying The Offended One's fleeing the stage. strangely enough no one ever answered if booing was proper.....wonder why Fleeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Did somebody say Israel is a model for tolerance? They could have fooled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Did somebody say Israel is a model for tolerance? They could have fooled me. a model for religious tolerance....the other stuff tends to set em off, though they exhibit more than I would in their shoes perhaps ya missed that word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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