Golgo-13 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Democratic presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman decided that he needed to do something to get some much-needed publicity for his faltering campaign. Well, what the hell! Nothing works better than a little class warfare, so let's give that a try! Lieberman has come up with the absolutely unique idea (yeah, right!) of ... are you ready now? All together .... raising taxes on the rich! When nothing else works, play the envy card. Lieberman knows that envy is one of the most powerful emotions around, and powerful emotions make powerful tools in the hands of politicians. Lieberman's income redistribution plan has six main elements: 1. Raise the tax rates on the two highest income brackets. 2. Cut the tax rates for middle income families. 3. To make sure that the evil rich can't take advantage of the lower rates on the first $50,000 or so of their earnings, hit them with an additional 5% surtax. This will bring their tax rates up to nearly 45%. That should teach them to be successful. 4. Renew the double tax on corporate profits by restoring the taxes on stock dividends. 5. Bring back the death tax. Whatever government didn't manage to get from you while you're living, it can just take after you're dead. 6. Expand the hideous income redistribution program known as the Earned Income Tax Credit so more government checks can be written to more wage earners at the middle and lower income levels. I'm going to break this down for those of you who went to government schools. The higher tax rates on the rich will take even more money from our most productive citizens. The rate on most successful small business owners will be around 45%. The tax cuts for the middle income earners will remove even more Americans from the list of those who actually pay federal income taxes. And the expanded earned income tax credits will mean more government checks for those in the middle and lower income brackets. Simply put ... Lieberman's tax plan is to take even more money from the evil, hated rich and give that money to the middle and lower income tax brackets. Take the money from those who aren't likely to vote Democrat and give it to those who are. The ultimate goal here is to create a system in which they can get the money from people who's votes they don't need and then spend that money on the people who's votes they do need. There's something else you need to remember. Those evil rich people who the politicians tell you aren't paying their "fair share?" most of these people are business owners. They have elected to treat all of their business income as personal income. When the government takes more of that personal income away in the form of higher taxes that leaves these businessmen with less money to spend on expanding their businesses and hiring new employees. Have any of you read "Atlas Shrugged?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 While I certainly don't agree with taxing the crap out of rich people, they are not anywhere close to paying 45% of their income in taxes. They hardly pay a higher percentage than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canyonero! Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Are the richest American's really the most productive? And what's this production based on? Do the richest American's spend the most? I don't mean any of these to be rhetorical, I'd honestly like to know how a consumption based tax rate would effect the richest people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 "They hardly pay a higher percentage than I do." And why should they? Does Boortz show come on in DC? There is no chance I am going to vote for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi "They hardly pay a higher percentage than I do." And why should they? Because most of my money goes towards providing my family with a home in a crime free neighborhood, giving my children a decent education, putting food on the table and clothes on my back. Very rich people are worried about how big their yatch is going to be, what sports team they are going to buy, how many summer homes they're going to buy, and how many exotic cars their going to have. If I pay 15% of my income on taxes and the very rich had to pay 25%, it wouldn't break my heart any. They'd still be making as much money as everyone on this message board put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Golgo-13 Democratic presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman decided that he needed to do something to get some much-needed publicity for his faltering campaign. Well, what the hell! . . . 2. Cut the tax rates for middle income families. . . . Have any of you read "Atlas Shrugged?" Now, let's see. If I'm not mistaken, the entire purpose of this article is to talk about wno those awfull Democrats are trying to use class warfare for political purposes. Above, I have quoted every single sentance that hasn't been deliberatly phrased in a way to attack one class of people. So, please explain to me, Neil: The Democrats are using class warfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 endzone the highest tax bracket starts at about $300k so this is not going at just the super rich. I guess since these people are possibly more successful than you and made probably better decisions in their lives, that they should get taxed extra beyond being already in the highest bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Because most of my money goes towards providing my family with a home in a crime free neighborhood, giving my children a decent education, putting food on the table and clothes on my back.Very rich people are worried about how big their yatch is going to be, what sports team they are going to buy, how many summer homes they're going to buy, and how many exotic cars their going to have. If I pay 15% of my income on taxes and the very rich had to pay 25%, it wouldn't break my heart any. They'd still be making as much money as everyone on this message board put together.. You want to punish rich people, because they are more successful than you are. Is that it, jealous are we? Class envy, got to love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by The Wicked Wop endzone the highest tax bracket starts at about $300k so this is not going at just the super rich. I guess since these people are possibly more successful than you and made probably better decisions in their lives, that they should get taxed extra beyond being already in the highest bracket. My rant is against the Bill Gates/Steve Forbes types. The lawyer/doctor doesn't need to be taxed more than I am. Feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yeah, how dare those guys be more succesful than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Maybe so, if something like this is pushed along, its not going to just affect them......why? because their are a limited amount of Bill Gates/Steve Forbes. They want all the lawyer's, doctors, professionals and relatively successful business owners who aren't super rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I definitely don't believe lawyer's, doctors, professionals and relatively successful business owners who aren't super rich should be taxed at a high rate. But I'm sure Bill Gates has to laugh at all the people making less than $100K a year who argue to keep their tax rate the same as his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 One thing you could do address that point is probably to cut excessive and abusive loopholes for the for Super Rich.....Unfortunately the system allows for it, and they could address this on their own, without having to make it a political tool. But they won't why.....because this is where they let the Rich off (kinda like were going to tax you from the front, but let you off in the rear), say for instance the Gates is in the highest bracket...he gets tax there then he gets his AMT tax (which by the way is starting to hit more and more people).....but then he goes out and hires the brightest tax minds to come up with all kinds or Tax shelters and so forth and so on to help protect vast amounts of money from being taxed or being taxed at the highest rates. I for one would be all in favor of ending that but like I said, I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Bill Gates should pay the same tax rate as you do. While you are busy trying to feed your children in a nice safe neighborhood and putting clothes on their backs, millions of people around the world are struggling to eat. In fact your salary in many countries in the world would make you rich. Maybe you are not paying enough in taxes. While you are busying trying to buy your kids nice Christmas gifts, kids in Africa are begging for food. I have a solution, lets raise taxes for Dave. Spare me your bullsh*t You and your ilk make me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by The Wicked Wop One thing you could do address that point is probably to cut excessive and abusive loopholes for the for Super Rich.....Unfortunately the system allows for it, and they could address this on their own, without having to make it a political tool. But they won't why.....because this is where they let the Rich off (kinda like were going to tax you from the front, but let you off in the rear), say for instance the Gates is in the highest bracket...he gets tax there then he gets his AMT tax (which by the way is starting to hit more and more people).....but then he goes out and hires the brightest tax minds to come up with all kinds or Tax shelters and so forth and so on to help protect vast amounts of money from being taxed or being taxed at the highest rates. I for one would be all in favor of ending that but like I said, I don't see that happening. You said it a lot better than I could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 luckydevi, can you hear Bill Gates laughing, he's laughing at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Maybe Liberman should have justed suggested we attack Iraq. Opps it's already been done as a political matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Endzone refute my post. I don't give a damn about Bill Gates politics. You want to punish somebody like Bill Gates, because he is too rich. To many people in Africa, you are too rich. While you are busing trying to decide if I should buy 3 or 4 gifts for little Johnny, some guy in Africa is trying to find dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 luckydevi, we could go on forever on this. I don't want to "punish" the guy. Taxing him at 25% isn't all that harsh. That's probably not too far from what he's paying now and not all that much more than what I'm paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Taxing him at 25% isn't all that harsh Who decides that, you? What about the guy who is paying 25%, does he have any say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi Who decides that, you? What about the guy who is paying 25%, does he have any say? Good point, I'll give you that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi Who decides that, you? What about the guy who is paying 25%, does he have any say? Yeah, he gets as many votes as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi Who decides that, you? What about the guy who is paying 25%, does he have any say? Of course he does. Who do you think the special interests that buy politicians (directly or indirectly through fundraisers) truly are most of the time? There is a reason why "the rich" continually get these loopholes written in and they stay in. And for the record, the rich in my book is anyone who makes more money than me. :laugh: Nah, just kidding. Although it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Yeah, he gets as many votes as I do. That's why I am not a fan of democracy. It comes at the expense of the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I would be for one single flat tax rate if there were zero exemptions. None, nada nothing. No kids, no shelters, no earned vs dividend, no home loans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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