Fox: Perry blasts California newspaper for cartoon depicting Texas plant explosion

[twa]

More on point to this thread what we've seen in TX is to cut the regulators budgets to the point that they can't really regulate (because they don't have the man power) (and then in many cases complain that they failed at their job):

You think that?

happen to know what the budget/staffing for the TCEQ is?

I hear it is second only to the EPA

[The Sisko]

That's understandable. After all, bribes, graft, and bogus lab studies don't come cheap.

[twa]

That's understandable. After all, bribes, graft, and bogus lab studies don't come cheap.

Wait, are we talking about the AGW bunch again?

[PeterMP]

You think that?

happen to know what the budget/staffing for the TCEQ is?

I hear it is second only to the EPA

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Texas-Lawmakers-Inquire-Into-Plant-Explosion-205020601.html

"Ellis asks whether the commissioner would consider new fees on Texas industries to pay for increased inspections. The agency's budget was cut from $554 million in 2008 to $340 this year."

Hasn't the TX economy beeng growing and doing better since 2008? And hasn't at least some of that growth been to industries that you'd normally expect to be regulated by something like the TCEQ (e.g. oil, natural gas, refining, petrochemical, etc.)?

Odd their budget has been cut, I think.

Comparitively CA's EPA budget was $1.8 billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Environmental_Protection_Agency

And even a small state like NJ spent $353 million for its Dept. of Env. Protection

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/omb/publications/12budget/pdf/42.pdf

[twa]

you mean the earlier link lied?

[Duckus]

From this Sunday's Austin American Statesmen.

Texas behind the curve on regulating fertilizer plants

If the West Fertilizer Co. plant had been in Illinois, state regulators there likely would have inspected it annually, making sure that its bins storing tons of ammonium nitrate were still in good shape and that the potentially explosive chemical wasn’t spilling out. Though not charged with fire prevention, had they spotted a fire hazard, officials say, there is a good chance they would have alerted local authorities.

Had the plant been in California, a team of local officials may have inspected the plant, looking at everything from building codes to worker safety.

Many states simply have more eyes looking at such facilities than Texas, where no state agency regulates any aspect of ammonium nitrate safety, either to protect workers or the general public.

Texas is also one of only four states that lacks a statewide fire code and associated rules on storage of the chemical. Those rules are perhaps the strongest protection against unsafe handling of ammonium nitrate, which authorities have long known can blow up catastrophically under certain conditions.

About 30 tons of the material exploded during a fire at the West plant last month, killing 14. Though officials have given only limited details on how the chemical was stored, it appears that the facility, which lacked a sprinkler system, might have been in violation of at least some of the ammonium storage guidelines found in most fire codes.

But would officials in any other state have caught those deficiencies? Even in states that are the most aggressive when it comes to regulating both workplace safety and fire hazards, officials don’t regularly target the safe storage of ammonium nitrate at fertilizer plants.

As in Texas, many states dispatch inspectors to fertilizer plants to make sure products are properly blended and labeled. Unlike Texas, many states — including Oklahoma, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska — enhance those consumer protections with annual environmental checks, as well as periodic safety inspections of tanks containing anhydrous ammonia, a gaseous fertilizer that can create a toxic cloud if released.

But those inspections don’t generally encompass the safe storage and handling of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, a blind spot that extends well past Texas to other states and the federal government.

“I don’t know that anyone had these small fertilizer plants on their radar screen,” said Celeste Monforton, a lecturer at the George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services and a former official at the Occupational Health and Safety Administration. “(Regulators) tend to be reactive.”

Push for fire codes stymied

For the most part, two groups directly regulate ammonium nitrate storage: fire authorities and workplace health and safety agencies. (Several state and federal agencies regulate security at ammonium nitrate facilities, in an attempt to make sure the chemical isn’t stolen for criminal or terrorist purposes.)

]Texas doesn’t just lack a statewide fire code: It prohibits smaller counties from adopting fire codes even if they want to. McLennan County is among those without a fire code, and the West Fertilizer plant, which straddles the city and county line, might have fallen into a regulatory limbo as a result.

Daniel Horowitz, managing director of the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, which is charged with investigating causes of industrial chemical accidents, told the American-Statesman that a fire code “would have been helpful. It would have offered some level of provision to prevent a fire around the ammonium nitrate.”

Most fire codes around the country use the National Fire Protection Association’s rules on ammonium nitrate storage, which include requiring sprinkler systems, fire-resistant walls and a ventilated roof.

A bill that would have allowed counties with 250,000 residents or less to adopt fire codes died during the current legislative session, despite being passed by the House County Affairs Committee the morning after the West blast.

In presenting his bill to the committee, state Rep. Walter Price, R-Amarillo, said the state prohibition on rural fire codes “leaves a huge number of (buildings) without clear fire safety standards or precautionary measures in place to prevent disasters.”

Price would not comment on the bill’s demise, but co-sponsor state Rep. Dan Flynn, R-Canton, said some legislators are generally opposed to giving rural counties more regulatory authority. Flynn said the West explosion might help the chances of such a bill in the next session: “It will give us some room to step out and do that.”

Cities may adopt their own fire codes, and the city of West has some rules for hazards such as fireworks. But its city code does not incorporate one of the nationally recognized fire codes, which cover ammonium nitrate.

Though much of rural Texas lacks fire codes, that doesn’t mean that there are no fire prevention guidelines. State law gives state and local officials the right to inspect buildings and use nationally recognized codes — such as those covering ammonium nitrate storage — to correct hazardous situations.

But without an adopted code, things can get squishy, say advocates of the bill. “The problem becomes you have to jump through 21 hoops if they challenge you,” said Ronald Pray, the fire marshal of Victoria County, which is also not big enough to qualify for a fire code. “But if you have a fire code in place then there is no ambiguity.”

It remains unclear if West Fertilizer was subject to the ammonium nitrate fire code provisions, or if any entity had ever told the company it was out of compliance. Officials have so far refused to clarify the issue.

A fire code, and the resulting fire marshal to enforce it, might have triggered more inspections in West, but not necessarily regular inspections, as some critics have contended.

Oklahoma, which does have a statewide fire code, doesn’t perform regular fire inspections of fertilizer plants in rural areas, said Luke Tallant, operations chief for the Oklahoma Fire Marshal’s office. “That’s not a requirement in Oklahoma,” he said. “I’m not aware of any fertilizer plants being inspected by our agency.”

More at link: http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/without-fire-code-or-safety-inspections-texas-behi/nXwY9/?icmp=statesman_internallink_textlink_apr2013_statesmanstubtomystatesman_launch

[twa]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/16/18302132-arson-not-ruled-out-in-texas-fertilizer-plant-explosions?lite

Investigators said the fire began in a fertilizer and seed building called the seed room. They said the possible causes included arson, a failure of one of the plant's two electrical systems and a compromised battery on a golf cart.

The golf cart had been recalled from the manufacturer, said Brian Hoback, a national response team investigator for the ATF, who said "there's a history of golf carts' actually starting fires" when their batteries fail. He said the cart couldn't yet be ruled out because it hadn't been fully recovered from the scene.

Many other triggers had been speculated upon as the cause, including the weather, some sort of spontaneous ignition, failure of the facility's second electrical system, two ammonium compounds used in the fertilizer-making process and smoking. Investigators said all of those had been ruled out.

And they chillingly said the explosions could have been much worse......

[elkabong82]

How do you not have a sprinkler system in that kind of building? Jeez louise

[twa]

How do you not have a sprinkler system in that kind of building? Jeez louise

Water can add to the problems,especially with Anhydrous ammonia

[elkabong82]

Water can add to the problems,especially with Anhydrous ammonia

That doesn't mean you shouldn't have a sprinkler system. In fact, having one is part of safety codes even in buildings storing anhydrous ammonia. There are whole books on having ones for buildings such as this one (NFPA 13). Suppose a fire breaks out elsewhere and starts to spread. A sprinkler system could take it out before it spreads to flammable chemicals, and for all we know that could have been the case in this incident.

Given the severe lack of regulation, it likely was cut because of the same thought you just posted without any further consideration to the fact that fire can start elsewhere and spread. It is cost-cutting negligence, probably by folks who share the same desire to get rid of all government regulation. That it is a very stupid extreme to swing to and it is very ignorant of the incidents in America's past that occurred due to no regulations. Overregulation is bad, but the other extreme is also bad. Government shouldn't have total control because it can't be trusted, it's made up of people, and people themselves should also not have total control because they too cannot be trusted. The history of our country is evidence of both those facts. People and government have to serve as checks to one another, otherwise on one end you get Orwell's 1984, and on the other end you get the Gilded Age, stock market crash, Triangle Fire, etc.

[PeterMP]

Water can add to the problems,especially with Anhydrous ammonia

If your ammonia is some where that output of a sprinkler system could affect it, then it isn't anhydrous.

[twa]

If your ammonia is some where that output of a sprinkler system could affect it, then it isn't anhydrous.

correct, but that is what it is stored as.....released or escaped in a enclosed area things can change

interesting case there at West, I hope they figure it out.

Elka, they are required here....I wonder if they were grandfathered?

any opinion on sprinklers causing further reactions in a enclosed mixed chemical environment Peter?

[PeterMP]

any opinion on sprinklers causing further reactions in a enclosed mixed chemical environment Peter?

I've never heard of a building not having an automated fire suppression system because of an issue with chemicals.

I have hear of a rooms/labs having a non-water based (tend to be more expensive) fire suppression system because of fear of reactions with water.

But they still have an automated fire suppression system and that would only in particular rooms/labs.

Generally, the solution is to store them in a manner where a sprinkler system wouldn't affect them (water tight containers).

[twa]

anhydrous certainly is installed in such by default, ammonia nitrate on the other hand is safer in open containment

on the other hand add water to ammonia nitrate and expose to heat along with some dry ammonia nitrate cooking off gases in a enclosed area with .....