Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Weaker defenses are nothing new to Mike Shanahan. In his 16 years as a head coach prior to this season, Mike Shanahan's offenses have ranked #9 on the average DVOA while his defenses have ranked #18. For all but four of those years, since 1999, he has had control of the entire team. So, the responsibility, both credit and blame, for those results ends with Mike. He has obviously done much better with the offense than he has with the defense. Since the offense and defense are equally important, his defenses have been dragging down the quality of his teams over the past 16 years. I was unimpressed by the hiring of Jim Haslett, but firing Haslett is unlikely to effect a major turnaround of Redskins' fortunes on the defensive side of the ball. He hasn't been Shanny's DC for 16 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If I remember correctly, his refusal to make changes on defense in Denver were what ultimately led to his firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I've said in the game thread a couple times that shanahan has effectively completed his transformation of this team and put his stamp on it. Great offense, putridly embarrassing defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mike has given Haslett the tools (players) to at the very least, field a competent defense. Yet for some reason Haz can't figure it out. Not in the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 His fault seems to be in giving his defense to people who are poor at running it. he's an offensive minded coach, and much like Gibbs used to do, he leaves his D up to who he hires. And there is his downfall.. he's not been very good at finding good defensive coordinators. This year we have a combination problem, in that we have a sub par coordinator, some key injuries, and a secondary that desperately needs to be overhauled. I have to believe that overhaul was perhaps partially stymied by this cap penalty we found out about on Free Agency Eve. As to his firing in denver, the defense was probably a good excuse to use, but I also think Pat Bowlen just felt the need for change (Familiarity brreeding contempt and all) and wanted to hop on the Shiny New Thing, and hired that clown out of new england. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mike has given Haslett the tools (players) to at the very least, field a competent defense. Yet for some reason Haz can't figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mike has given Haslett the tools (players) to at the very least, field a competent defense. Yet for some reason Haz can't figure it out. I think the injuries to Orakpo and Carriker put such a dent in our ability to generate a pass rush that Has is literally doing the best he can with what he has. Factor in he's also having to use Doughty again, and it's just not pretty. Kerrigan is practically a ghost out there without Orakpo. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 He did have that one good year on D when they made the AFC Title game, but you're right his Ds for the most part have been his downfall. Hope he can find a better D-Coord this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think this is more of an issue of him being loyal to a fault to his coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 If I remember correctly, his refusal to make changes on defense in Denver were what ultimately led to his firing.There was a rumor, ultimately denied, that the owner wanted him to fire Slowik and Shanny refused. That might be what you are thinking of.---------- Post added October-22nd-2012 at 01:45 PM ---------- ...As to his firing in denver, the defense was probably a good excuse to use, but I also think Pat Bowlen just felt the need for change (Familiarity brreeding contempt and all) and wanted to hop on the Shiny New Thing, and hired that clown out of new england.Bowlen gave Shanahan everything he asked for and was disappointed with the results over the span 1999 - 2008.---------- Post added October-22nd-2012 at 01:50 PM ---------- I think this is more of an issue of him being loyal to a fault to his coaching staff.In Denver, he was accused of firing DCs to use them as scapegoats. I don't know the number, but he had a lot of turnover at the DC position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wonder why Bob Slowik, one of the worst defensive coaches in the nfl, constantly finds himself on a Shanahan coached team. Either Shanny likes to hire folks that will never find employment elsewhere ('loyal', ie. Haslett), or he's looking for yes men (although I have much less proof of this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wonder why Bob Slowik' date=' one of the worst defensive coaches in the nfl, constantly finds himself on a Shanahan coached team. Either Shanny likes to hire folks that will never find employment elsewhere ('loyal', ie. Haslett), or he's looking for yes men (although I have much less proof of this).[/quote']I read old Denver Post articles to see if I could nail down a problem, but nothing clear surfaced.DCs usually bring their expertise with their own system with them. Mike hired one guy and chucked his scheme five games into the season -- which suggests he really didn't know what he was getting when he hired the guy, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeluCopter29 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Bring back Richie Pettibone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My worry is that Shanny's allegiances are too strong with these mediocre to inept coaches. It smells of Snyder, Zorn, and Vinny football family styled nepotism. I'd prefer that our coaches earn their stripes, and neither Slowik nor Haslett have done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Holy cow. OF starts a thread I completely agree with. Yesterday's game was pretty much what I'd expected from the day we hired MS. I posted somewhere here during the preseason that Haz's schemes had been exposed last year. Only good DC MSh hired over the last 16 years was Ray Rhodes, but he was only healthy enough to stick around for a year. If we'd opened up the chkbook real wide and snagged Wade P we'd be going to SB next year or the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Bowlen gave Shanahan everything he asked for and was disappointed with the results over the span 1999 - 2008. Bowlen neede a change as happens when coaches have been around a while. (we're seeing the same thing in Philly. Reid's been great, but he'll likely be ridden out of town on a rail in January barring a miracle.) So he fired him for whatever reason he felt was appropriate and promptly went out and hired a child to be his coach, and ended up paying a huge fine because the little twerp videotaped his opponents,just like he was taught in New England. He's a possible contender now because he bought a two year lease on a hall of fame QB. But after that? Who knows. It's not like he made a great decision that made his team any better. Somtimes change is just made for the sake of change. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Bowlen neede a change as happens when coaches have been around a while. (we're seeing the same thing in Philly. Reid's been great, but he'll likely be ridden out of town on a rail in January barring a miracle.) So he fired him for whatever reason he felt was appropriate and promptly went out and hired a child to be his coach, and ended up paying a huge fine because the little twerp videotaped his opponents,just like he was taught in New England.He's a possible contender now because he bought a two year lease on a hall of fame QB. But after that? Who knows. It's not like he made a great decision that made his team any better. Somtimes change is just made for the sake of change. ~Bang As I see it, the firing of Shanahan was justified if the owner wanted championships. With full control, Mike had given him one playoff win 1999 - 2008. The hiring of McDaniel was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saqs Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would like to hear someone take accountability for what happened on the Cruz TD. The coaches say "he was double covered". The players say "Cruz made a great play." Listen to RG3s press conference and he takes full responsibility for the INT and fumble...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 As I see it, the firing of Shanahan was justified if the owner wanted championships. With full control, Mike had given him one playoff win 1999 - 2008. The hiring of McDaniel was a mistake. That's cool.. i'm not saying it was a good move or a bad move. Just a move. At the time I thought it was pretty silly, but I can see his reasons for it. Eventually he may get back to where he wants to be. Maybe even this year if manning continues to heat up. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think the problem right now is he hired a neutered D coordinator. He wasn't even allowed to hire his own staff due to loyalty to people like Slowik and Burney. Playing musical chairs with Slowik is infuriating. The reports of Haslett running the cover zero because of Shanahan's influence if true are comical. Shanahan needs to swallow a little pride and hire a competent D Coordinator who has full control and is allowed to hire his own personnel and that is allowed to make tough roster decisions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think the problem right now is he hired a neutered D coordinator. He wasn't even allowed to hire his own staff due to loyalty to people like Slowik and Burney. Playing musical chairs with Slowik is infuriating. The reports of Haslett running the cover zero because of Shanahan's influence if true are comical. Shanahan needs to swallow a little pride and hire a competent D Coordinator who has full control and is allowed to hire his own personnel and that is allowed to make tough roster decisions as well.Mike likes having control while smart, experienced DCs don't want their futures in the hands of others. So, that leaves DC candidates who can't find jobs elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not a Haslett fan, big wtf when he was announced, but the characterization that he was given competent players is something I fundamentally disagree with. Our secondary is an absolute catastrophe, and the fact that that Josh Wilson is by far our best player in the secondary is clear evidence of just how little this team has to work with. Shanahan deserves a good amount of blame for his choice here, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that he had much of an option to address the secondary given the ridiculous salary cap penalty imposed on the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not a Haslett fan, big wtf when he was announced, but the characterization that he was given competent players is something I fundamentally disagree with.Our secondary is an absolute catastrophe, and the fact that that Josh Wilson is by far our best player in the secondary is clear evidence of just how little this team has to work with. Shanahan deserves a good amount of blame for his choice here, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that he had much of an option to address the secondary given the ridiculous salary cap penalty imposed on the Redskins. The majority of opinions I've read think the current problems on the defense are a combination of coaching and lack of talent. I think it's hard to place blame fairly for the current situation, but Shanny cannot be absolved of blame for a 16-year problem. It has to be a management problem on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mike likes having control while smart, experienced DCs don't want their futures in the hands of others. So, that leaves DC candidates who can't find jobs elsewhere. Maybe a sticking point in why Zimmer chose not to come here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Maybe a sticking point in why Zimmer chose not to come here?In his years in Denver, Mike wasn't known as a coach who would advance the careers of a DC, so I'd be surprised if Zimmer didn't take that into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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