Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I never said Cam is a Pocket passer. I said the obvious he is a better pocket passer than Vick is. Based on what? Vick has outperformed Cam in every aspect, save for total yards. How is it "obvious" Cam's a better pocket passer? The fact that he's a rookie on a worst team and still can put up better throwing numbers than Vick further explains my point. Only he hasn't put up better numbers than Vick. He only has more yards. We will see when it's all said and done.Cam is setting NFL PASSING records as a rookie already ...can you name one single PASSING record that Vick(the better passer) holds today? Thankyou enjoy these free tickets to STFU land So Cam had a great game. One great game does not a quarterback make though. You only want to bring stats into when they help you out, but you choose to ignore the stats that show that THIS YEAR, Vick is a better passer (higher completion %, more TD, fewer INT, higher passer rating). If the only thing you have to say is that "Cam has a record" to support your argument, that's not really a great supportive argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Only chance NC panthers had was REX Grossman was the starting QB.Not becuase of Rex is just that sorry but because of the momentum of Rex starting. Meaning,With Rex as the starter Carolina would have been pumped up to stop him,hell after one int thrown by Rex the fans would have went crazy. With Beck momentum will be in our favor for the most part(unless he totally implodes) Cam is still just a Rookie playing on a horrible team. are defense is bananas! He will get sacked,he will throw int's. As long as are offense just sustain drives and score some Td's in the redzone and Gano makes the FG's that he is suppose to make we should be fine IMO. Our D is just too much for any rookie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Only chance NC panthers had was REX Grossman was the starting QB.Not becuase of Rex is just that sorry but because of the momentum of Rex starting. Meaning,With Rex as the starter Carolina would have been pumped up to stop him,hell after one int thrown by Rex the fans would have went crazy. With Beck momentum will be in our favor for the most part(unless he totally implodes) Cam is still just a Rookie playing on a horrible team. are defense is bananas! He will get sacked,he will throw int's. As long as are offense just sustain drives and score some Td's in the redzone and Gano makes the FG's that he is suppose to make we should be fine IMO. Our D is just too much for any rookie! I agree. Because of the Rex debacle last Sunday and the way the Eagles got of to a very very fast start, no one is talking about the fact that our D figured things out and shutdown such an explosive offense in the 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Oh Im sorry. I was under the impression that GB's is undefeated at the moment. I believe GB's last years Defense allowed the Redskins pathetic Offense (with Mcnabb as the QB) beat them. So yeah ..... And that changes my argument how? Our defense sucked last year, but we're top ten this year. How can that be? Holy crap, maybe because last year has nothing to do with this year! Green Bay's offense has more to do with them being undefeated than their defense. THEY HAVE ALLOWED 300+ PASSING YARDS PER GAME on average. Last year, Green Bay was a top ten defense. This year, they're 23rd. So again. Performance last year does not effect performance this year AT ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Don't underestimate the guy or what he is capable of doing. There aren't too many Winston Justice's out there. He got owned by Osi when the he was a rookie and the Giants played Philly that year. Osi had 5 or 6 sacks and Justice was a first round pick for the Eagles. Some of the best players in NFL history have been undrafted FA's. It sure makes it easier though since he hasn't played a lot so we may take advantage of his lack of playing time. But it isn't really good news but an advantage none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Based on what? Vick has outperformed Cam in every aspect, save for total yards. How is it "obvious" Cam's a better pocket passer?Only he hasn't put up better numbers than Vick. He only has more yards. "Cam has a record" to support your argument, that's not really a great supportive argument. Cam has set RECORDS! Cam has set more than one NFL"PASSING" record already The fact you can't name one passing Record for a VET is just laughable becuase based off what you say he';s so much better of a Passer. Funny thing is this Panthers have drafted first round Qb's that have all failed in the Panthers Offense. Vick plays for Philly,who under Reids has made any QB they put inm look good. Garicia,Mcnabb(might make the HOF off rieds offense) Kolb,Vick,ect The funny thing is this there is a couple of guys i didnt even mention.It's the Philly offense Block head not the QB! smh Are you telling me that Cam in Philly's offense with Reid as the coach,that Cam would implode when no QB has done so since with Reid as the coach? Like I enjoy this cup of STFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Cam has set RECORDS! Cam has set more than one NFL"PASSING" record already The fact you can't name one passing Record for a VET is just laughable becuase based off what you say he';s so much better of a Passer. Funny thing is this Panthers have drafted first round Qb's that have all failed in the Panthers Offense. Vick plays for Philly,who under Reids has made any QB they put inm look good. Garicia,Mcnabb(might make the HOF off rieds offense) Kolb,Vick,ect The funny thing is this there is a couple of guys i didnt even mention.It's the Philly offense Block head not the QB! smh Are you telling me that Cam in Philly's offense with Reid as the coach,that Cam would implode when no QB has done so since with Reid as the coach? Like I enjoy this cup of STFU Vick has success with a QB friendly coach. The horror! Philip Rivers doesn't have any records either. I guess Cam is better than Rivers, huh? Sure it's the system. Brady without Belichick wouldn't have the TD record or the Super Bowls. I guess Cam's better than Brady too, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I agree. Because of the Rex debacle last Sunday and the way the Eagles got of to a very very fast start, no one is talking about the fact that our D figured things out and shutdown such an explosive offense in the 2nd half. Right and with Rex teams will always fill like there is a chance win. ---------- Post added October-20th-2011 at 12:24 PM ---------- Vick has success with a QB friendly coach. The horror!Philip Rivers doesn't have any records either. I guess Cam is better than Rivers, huh? Sure it's the system. Brady without Belichick wouldn't have the TD record or the Super Bowls. I guess Cam's better than Brady too, then. actually Tom Brady and Rivers have all set PASSINg records already.Funny this is this,the only one you mention that hasn't is VIck unless you count having more rushing yards than passing yards in a season a record? Also to my point " stats lie" see how i just worked that. ---------- Post added October-20th-2011 at 12:31 PM ---------- Vick has success with a QB friendly coach. The horror!. Are you trying to argue my point for me? Yes so lets breakdown the logic....... Vick has been a horrible passer his whole entire career (even college) without Philly. Now he's in a SYSTEM that any Qb you put in there can preform? He's has become a better passer in his career. Now Cam is in a system that turn POCKET PASSING qb's into garbage but is yet putting up top yards numbers and has set TWO nfl PASSING records already.....wonder what Cam would do in Philly,or better yet I bet Philly would trade Vick straight up for Cam Newton right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 actually Tom Brady and Rivers have all set PASSINg records already.Funny this is this,the only one you mention that hasn't is VIck unless you count having more rushing yards than passing yards in a season a record? The only record Rivers has is most passing yards through eight games. About as relevant as, say, Vick's record of being the only QB who has thrown for 300 yards and four TDs and run for 50 yards and 2 TD or being the only QB to throw for 250 yards and rush for 100 yards in a game. Brady set the records in a QB-friendly system, so they don't count according to you. Funny thing is this Panthers have drafted first round Qb's that have all failed in the Panthers Offense. Oh, and the Panthers have drafted two first round quarterbacks. Kerry Collins and Cam Newton. So tell me who the other "first round QBs that have failed in the Panthers' system" are, please. Also to my point " stats lie" see how i just worked that. So stats lie only for me when I'm arguing them, but when you argue them for Cam, they don't? Your "Cam has a record" argument is based off STATS. But according to you "Stats lie" so we can't really use the record argument now, can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketHTTR Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I still think this defense is poor against the run, which in my opinion is one of the few Carolina strengths. As good as Rak is on the pass rush he really is a liability IMO in the run defense. Over runs a lot of plays trying to get to the edge, and he also struggles to diagnose plays. McIntosh looked like, well how he looked last year. Week before, I was praising him and last week I thought he was a step slow all game. If Carolina rolls Cam out like the Eagles did for Vick, and if Carolina sticks with the running game then I see another long day for the defense. Mike Vick can make a lot of people look a step slow, so can MCcoy. Doesn't really matter who is starting on their line. They are NFL players and get paid to perform. We need to start faster on defense this week and make Cam play from behind and eliminate their run game like Philly did to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Are you trying to argue my point for me? Yes so lets breakdown the logic....... Vick has been a horrible passer his whole entire career (even college) without Philly. Now he's in a SYSTEM that any Qb you put in there can preform? He's has become a better passer in his career. True. Now Cam is in a system that turn POCKET PASSING qb's into garbage You mean Jimmy Clausen? Yeah, he was going to be great if it weren't for Carolina.... Or Matt Moore? No, he sucks anyway. Brian St. Pierre? Still no. Jake Delhomme? The guy who took the Panthers to the Super Bowl then got too old to be effective? That doesn't work for you. Vinny Testaverde? Past his prime when he started. David Carr? Nope. Chris Weinke? Laughable Save for Delhomme, who just got old, the Panthers haven't had a good QB since Kerry Collins. They've hardly "turned QBs into garbage" You're grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Oh, and the Pa So stats lie only for me when I'm arguing them, but when you argue them for Cam, they don't? Your "Cam has a record" argument is based off STATS. But according to you "Stats lie" so we can't really use the record argument now, can we?nthers have drafted two first round quarterbacks. Kerry Collins and Cam Newton. So tell me who the other "first round QBs that have failed in the Panthers' system" are, please. Thats was my point I've been schooling you thus far with the same strategy., Bait you in with your own argument , Then make you Contradict yourself. Also Stats and NFL Records are a little bit different my man...TIck Tick BOOM You Either Know football or NO football ...Jesus This thread isn't even about Cam it's about a rookie O linemen. Like I've said already and will reiterate again for you AGREE TO DISAGREE. It's not fair to the others to have to keep reading pages about Vick vs Cam, not only am I Right I have Schooled you already and really there isn't no reason for me to continue on with you. You have made your pointless points already,I have taken them with a grain of salt Now don't respond to me unsless you are talking about the Panthers new Linemen HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thats was my point I've been schooling you thus far with the same strategy., Bait you in with your own argument , Then make you Contradict yourself. Also Stats and NFL Records are a little bit different my man...TIck Tick BOOM You Either Know football or NO football ...Jesus This thread isn't even about Cam it's about a rookie O linemen. Like I've said already and will reiterate again for you AGREE TO DISAGREE. It's not fair to the others to have to keep reading pages about Vick vs Cam, not only am I Right I have Schooled you already and really there isn't no reason for me to continue on with you. You have made your pointless points already,I have taken them with a grain of salt Now don't respond to me unsless you are talking about the Panthers new Linemen HA! Right I never contradicted myself. I corrected myself. Besides, having the record for most passing yards through the first eight games of the season is like being the frontrunner for MVP after eight games. In other words, it's meaningless. Records are based on what? Stats. Since according to you, "stats lie" records need to be taken with a grain of salt, yet you're using it as the end all be all of why Cam is great. So besides the single game record that Cam has, you've got nothing on why Cam is better. You discount what Vick has done because he's in a QB friendly system, but then want to use Brady, even though he's in a QB friendly system. You're the one contradicting yourself. You've also conveniently ignored the points that show you why you're wrong. You're right on one point though. You either know football or you don't. Trying to say Cam is better than Vick shows everyone that you don't know football. Tell me again how you're right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Right I never contradicted myself. I corrected myself. Besides, having the record for most passing yards through the first eight games of the season is like being the frontrunner for MVP after eight games. In other words, it's meaningless. Records are based on what? Stats. Since according to you, "stats lie" records need to be taken with a grain of salt, yet you're using it as the end all be all of why Cam is great. So besides the single game record that Cam has, you've got nothing on why Cam is better. You discount what Vick has done because he's in a QB friendly system, but then want to use Brady, even though he's in a QB friendly system. You're the one contradicting yourself. You've also conveniently ignored the points that show you why you're wrong. You're right on one point though. You either know football or you don't. Trying to say Cam is better than Vick shows everyone that you don't know football. Tell me again how you're right? Okay junior you win Im wrong. You're Right Tom Brady isn't half the POCKET PASSING Qb that Vick is nor is Cam ..blah blah can you give it a rest now..I did said you win didn't I? AGREE TO DISAGREE keep it moving will you junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaPride Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bell has shown some potential. He did a decent job against Clay Matthews, but then got handled by Abraham last week. He has all the physical tools, just needs to get the experience, so he can fine tune himself. Why the Vick comparisons to Newton? Newton has 13 total TDs, 9 turnovers. Vick has 9 total TDs, 11 turnovers. Newton has 2054 total yards. Vick has 1945 total yards. Vick is 2%-3% more accurate through the air. Newton is on a team that is top 2 or 3 in the league, in dropped passes. Vick has a higher ypc run average, but then again, Newton normally just runs on third and short, to pick up the first, or on run plays designed for him, dialed up by the OC. He doesn't just take off all willy nilly like Vick does, every time his pocket breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketHTTR Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hostility is among us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsrbeast Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 wait i forgot... is Vick better or is Newton better?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bell has shown some potential. He did a decent job against Clay Matthews, but then got handled by Abraham last week. He has all the physical tools, just needs to get the experience, so he can fine tune himself. Why the Vick comparisons to Newton? Newton has 13 total TDs, 9 turnovers. Vick has 9 total TDs, 11 turnovers. Newton has 2054 total yards. Vick has 1945 total yards. Vick is 2%-3% more accurate through the air. Newton is on a team that is top 2 or 3 in the league, in dropped passes. Vick has a higher ypc run average, but then again, Newton normally just runs on third and short, to pick up the first, or on run plays designed for him, dialed up by the OC. He doesn't just take off all willy nilly like Vick does, every time his pocket breaks down. HIm Thinks Vick is a better POCKET Passer than Cam Newton? Even Though Vick plays on a team That will make you believe Qb's are actually better passers than what they really are, as history has shown us. He's doesn't know the game very well.As a Skin Fan I do apologize for his football ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 HIm Thinks Vick is a better POCKET Passer than Cam Newton? Even Though Vick plays on a team That will make you believe Qb's are actually better passers than what they really are, as history has shown us. He's doesn't know the game very well.As a Skin Fan I do apologize for his football ignorance Again...Vick has better PASSING NUMBERS THAN NEWTON. Why is that so hard to grasp? If a scheme is QB friendly (such as the Eagles, Patriots, and Colts) the QBs will perform better. This is the DeMarcus Ware argument on offense. Ware is good at getting sacks, in scheme that is designed to get him sacks. Vick is a good passer, in a scheme that is designed to make him a good passer. You want to discount his passing numbers because he's in the right system. Steve Young didn't do well until he went to San Fran, where he flourished in a system that was designed to accentuate his strengths. Like Vick is now. You want to discount all of that evidence. Wait a second, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are in a QB-friendly system too. Are you going to ignore what they do because their systems cater to their strengths? Cam is good, and in a few years will be better than Vick. This year, though, Vick is clearly the better QB. You want to talk about football ignorance yet you can't see that you're arguing in circles and you have a double standard. The Panthers didn't draft Newton for his pocket passing. They drafted him because of his complete playmaking ability, of which he has a good amount, just not that of Vick. Yet. Guess what? Cam's in a system that caters to his strengths too. Are you going to even acknowledge that little gem, "junior?" He's in the gun almost as much as he was at Auburn. Okay junior you win Im wrong. You're Right Tom Brady isn't half the POCKET PASSING Qb that Vick is nor is Cam ..blah blah can you give it a rest now..I did said you win didn't I? AGREE TO DISAGREE keep it moving will you junior Where did I say that? I compared Vick to Cam. You said I should ignore how Vick's doing because he's in a QB-friendly system. To which I replied that Brady is too, so we need to ignore how he's doing going by your logic. The logical conclusion from those two statements (to you anyway) is that Cam is a better pocket passer than Brady, because Brady's in a QB-friendly system. Follow, "junior?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Does anyone remember the last time the Redskins exploited a matchup advantage? I sure as **** can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Does anyone remember the last time the Redskins exploited a matchup advantage? I sure as **** can't. I sure can't think of none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I sure can't think of none JaMarcus Russell and the Raiders two years ago possibly, but that was really JaMarcus exploiting himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GO HAMSKINS Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 JaMarcus Russell and the Raiders two years ago possibly, but that was really JaMarcus exploiting himself... Basically HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Basically HA! 2007 week 16...we beat the Vikings 32-21. Vikings had Tarvaris Jackson at QB. Could that be considered an exploit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaPride Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 HIm Thinks Vick is a better POCKET Passer than Cam Newton? Even Though Vick plays on a team That will make you believe Qb's are actually better passers than what they really are, as history has shown us. He's doesn't know the game very well.As a Skin Fan I do apologize for his football ignorance I will say this. Newton now, as a rookie, is everything Falcon fans wished Vick was during his time with the Falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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