RFKFedEx Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Here’s some evidence on why PSLs aren’t worth it. My pricing data is based on current Stubhub listings and the season ticket info page on DallasCowboys.com. I’ve been checking Stubhub for months, observing the rates for the Cowboys home opener against the Redskins. This match up should be one of the most highly anticipated regular season games of the year for Dallas. It’s the home opener against a division rival in primetime, and both teams are still in contention. Here’s what a Cowboys ticket costs to purchase from the team; per DallasCowboys.com… midfield, section 235, Founders Club seating retailing at $15,911.00 per seat, per season. That equates to $1,591 per seat, per game for 10 games; or $1988.00 per seat, per game, for 8 regular season games. Today on Stubhub I went right for the best seats in the house, and what I found will hopefully want to make Cowboys PSL holders want to rip their hair out. A plentiful supply of seats in the founders club can be had for Monday Night. Good deals in the $500-600 dollar range per seat; after taxes and Stubhub fees. The public can now buy the best seats for the biggest games at less than a 1/3 of the cost of what STHs are paying for every game, including preseason. http://www.stubhub.com/dallas-cowboys-tickets/cowboys-vs-redskins-cowboys-stadium-1068474/?ticket_id=312923167 The lopsided market is not limited to the prime club level seats. Let’s have a look at the nose bleeds on the upper level sidelines. As the least expensive PSL option the Cowboys offer, the upper level sideline seating will cost the STH apx. $927.00 per seat, per season, which includes the annual PSL fee. That breaks down to about $93 per seat, per game for 10 games; or $115 per seat, per game for 8 games. Here’s a listing on Stubhub for near midfield uppers in the same PSL zone for $33 per seat. That’s about $40 per seat after taxes and fees. Remember, this is for the NFCE home opener, not preseason. http://www.stubhub.com/dallas-cowboys-tickets/cowboys-vs-redskins-cowboys-stadium-1068474/?ticket_id=292997004 Although not as lopsided as the Founder’s Club pricing, Stubhub offers the upper deck for a prime game at about half of what the upper deck PSL holder is paying for every game including preseason. Most of the seats on Stubhub today are lower than what people were paying on Stubhub for comparably located seats in Texas Stadium in 2008. Season ticket prices however, have sky rocketed. The same study produced similar results for the Giants and Jets home openers at Metlife Stadium in 2011. The secondary market in 2011 affords better deals today than in 2009 at old Giants Stadium. Good luck to any franchise still hoping to fund stadium construction on projected PSL funds. SF, Minn, LA are up the creek if they think they’re going to get near the same numbers as the Cowboys and Giants. I think the ticket market has forever collapsed in wake of competition from digital game viewing technology and the preventive high gameday costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Nice research, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Does that cost include one time payments to purchase the PSL or is that the yearly cost forever? What is the PSL cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Like all teams that have PSLs today, the Cowboys offer a discount if you pay the entire lump sum up front in year one. However, most STHs don't have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around, so the Cowboys allow STHs to amortize their PSL payments over 30 years. The per seat cost I've included covers the annual PSL payment. The per game cost I included covers the actual cost of the game ticket and the PSL fee per game. The PSL fees pretty much double the cost of each ticket per game in the early years, until ticket prices increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How much is the PSL itself? I hate PSLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I f the skins ever go PSL's my season ticket holder days will be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scyber Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Its interesting that the Cowboys allow you to pay off your PSL yearly as part of your season ticket cost. That wasn't an option for the Giants tickets (nor the jets IIRC). But since it is financing, the cowboys are charging 8% interest on it, so its not surprising that that option wouldn't make sense financially. The face value of the founders club tickets is $340 and is $79 for the cheap upper level seats. It's been my experience (as both a seller and buyer) that demand & pricing for Monday night games it typically less than a Sunday afternoon game. That is b/c many people that have to work the next day and simply can't go. So I'm not sure whether using the Monday night games (for the Cowboys and Giants) represents an accurate picture of the demand. I know tickets in my section at Metlife were going for far cheaper for Monday nights game than they are currently listed for the rest of the year. As for comparing prices in the previous years, in 2008 the Cowboys were coming off of an 13-3 NFC East championship year. This year they are coming off of a 6-10 season. It's not really surprising that demand is lower. If they get good again those tickets are going to be alot more expensive and/or tougher to find. Similar store with the '08 Giants vs. this year. I know last year I made out pretty well selling the 4 regular season games I didn't attend at MetLife. Made at least 50% over face for each game. Of course I don't have club seats, so that helps. The real way they get the PSL/season ticket holders is by forcing them to pay full price for preseason games. You can almost never sell preseason games for face value. That said, you are probably right in general that PSLs aren't a good "investment". But I don't think they are extreme as you make them out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFKFedEx Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Scyber, It's all about timing. The earlier you sell, the more $ you are going to recover. The longer you wait, the more you'll lo$e. The Monday nighter in Dallas has come way down in price in recent days. Prices almost always decline as an event nears. Current prices for the rest of the Giants and Cowboys seasons are now higher than they were/are in the days leading up to the home openers on MNF. Congrats on making 50% over face for your Giants tix last year, that's pretty good. But was there an actual profit once you weighed in the preseason losses and PSL costs per season? I like to measure the cost of tickets per game based on an 8 game season since preseason is so hard to sell and essentially worthless to a majority of STHs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scyber Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 No doubt selling early helps. Unfortunately the lockout kinda shrunk the ticket selling season this year. Of course the reverse is that to get the good deals, you have to wait till the last minute. Since I like to plan my tailgates out in advance, I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable waiting till the last week for tickets. If you include the yearly PSL costs (broken down over a 25 year period) I didn't make a profit, but I more than covered the cost of the games I didn't attend (including preseason). So I pretty much paid face value for the 4 regular season games I attended, which was lower than the stubhub price for the tickets. I don't think I will do as well this year though. The schedule juggling of the Giants-Jets preseason game and the flooding due to hurricane irene meant my tickets got unused. I couldn't even give them away. But I don't really look at it as an investment so I don't plan on making a profit off of them. If I could, I would go to every regular season game and not sell a single one. The primary reason I'm selling is b/c I can't go, not b/c I want to make a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Scyber, have you heard of any Giants/Jets fans trying to sell their license after one season? If so, are they asking more than they paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scyber Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Scyber, have you heard of any Giants/Jets fans trying to sell their license after one season? If so, are they asking more than they paid? Yes, slight gains only though. The giants have a psl marketplace setup online and there are a number of tickets listed. This page shows the average sale price over the last 6 months: http://nygiants.strmarketplace.com/Personal-Seat-Licenses-Sales-Data.aspx I'm pretty sure all of those #'s are at least slightly above the original value. Afterall, I don't think anyone would get rid of their psl after 1 year for a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Like all teams that have PSLs today, the Cowboys offer a discount if you pay the entire lump sum up front in year one. However, most STHs don't have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around, so the Cowboys allow STHs to amortize their PSL payments over 30 years. And I thought signing a 10 year Club Level agreement was ludicrous..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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