darrelgreenie Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Again, I don't think anyone is saying he has a weak arm. You might not be saying that Beck has a weak arm but plenty of people are.I think people have legitimate concerns about his deep ball accuracy, and when it comes to our local guys...they know what they see, man. To say "well they're not out there catch passes from the guy", I think, is unfair to the fact that they're at practice almost every day watching him. I don't think it's media bias to be a Redskins Park nearly every day, watching practice, and see the same problem, with the same guy, several times a day.You have a higher opinion of the local beat writers then I.Nothing against them but I don't trust that they know what they're looking at, especially given their bias against Beck. And I think it's implicitly implied that, if Rex is throwing three picks in practice, that he didn't have a good practice. It's not that he doesn't have the arm to deliver the football; is that he has the arm, but he can't control it.Sure its implied if you read all the tweets, but if you only saw the summary report for that days TC you would never know that Rex threw 3 picks vs Beck subjectively inaccurate deep throws.It's not the arm; it's the accuracy. I know he can throw it deep.My point that camp reports(i.e. opinions) aren't definitive assessment for Beck's deep ball throwing acumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Kyle worked with Matt Schaub, who doesn't have a big arm. He makes up for it by being very accurate and well versed and entrenched in the system for several seasons. For that matter, Rex doesn't have the world's biggest arm. Bigger than Beck's, sure, but there's definitely guys with better arm strength. Kyle only worked with Schaub for a couple of seasons, not several. Schaub got traded to the Texans in 2007 and Kyle was the Receivers Coach and later promoted to QB coach down the line. 2008, one year later, he became the Offensive Coordinator and it took another year before the offense clicked. Essentially the time from for past success shows that Kyle can get good results in 2 years of work with the same guy (ie. Rex Grossman). If Beck wins the job, and that's a stretch at this point, it will be a year of work before he will be able to execute it effectively and put up good numbers. He's also plays short for a NFL QB. At 6'2" Beck is 3" shorter then prototypical and his 3/4 side arm delivery makes him even shorter. I'd point out that Beck had arm fatigue from doing nothing but throw more balls than he should all off season and into the beginning of camp. He had to take some rest because his arm was fatigued. Wobbling passes can happen when your arm is tired. The time off from the groin should have given his arm time to revive a bit. Once the timing and flow is back his balls will have some more zip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You might not be saying that Beck has a weak arm but plenty of people are.You have a higher opinion of the local beat writers then I. Nothing against them but I don't trust that they know what they're looking at, especially given their bias against Beck. Sure its implied if you read all the tweets, but if you only saw the summary report for that days TC you would never know that Rex threw 3 picks vs Beck subjectively inaccurate deep throws. My point that camp reports(i.e. opinions) aren't definitive assessment for Beck's deep ball throwing acumen. How can they not know what they're looking at? In what way can guys who get paid to look at football for a living not know what they're looking at? Again, I don't think our local beat guys are biased against Beck. Skeptical, sure, but that's not the same as bias. National media, oh yeah, for sure. But local? I don't think so. And it has been very rare that I see John Keim tweet something that he doesn't later report in his training camp report. Guys like Keim and Rich Campbell go into a lot of detail about what they're seeing, and show a lot more knowledge of football than I think you're giving them credit for. It's hard for me to believe that a group of guys who see the same thing at practice nearly every day are all somehow wrong, and that none of them know what they're seeing, and they're all biased against Beck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You don't need a cannon to play the position and personally, I've got no concerns about Beck's ability to throw the deep ball. What's of greater concern is how does a guy who has not played a full NFL game for four years handle the pressure of a game situation. The reports out of camp seem to highlight inconsistency, rather than an inability to throw the deep ball, as his problem. But what do you expect from a guy who has been less than mediocre when he's started and has spent most of his career as a journeyman/backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosandskinsMUSTwin Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Anthony Armstong noted yesterday after practice that Beck's ball definitely has more ZIP than Grossmans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You know why nobody thinks Grossman has a weak arm? Cause he's got all of these names. He can "unleash the dragon", he's a "gunslinger", he's the "sex cannon". What Beck needs is some fancy schmancy nicknames. How about the, "Mundane Mormon" or John "The Bridge player" Beck. Ok, so the names need some work, but it's a start! We could come out with signs saying "John throws bombs". That could work. It rolls off the tongue nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateYanksDukeCowboys Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Actually, it's rebutted by the Redskins receivers who, to a man, say Beck throws a harder ball than Grossman and no one thinks Grossman has a weak arm. Exactly what I was gonna say. Grossman has always been thought of as having a pretty decent arm, and Beck's is unanimously commented to be stronger. Mind as well create a thread titled: "Is Graham Gano's leg as weak as everyone says?" or "Does London Fletcher miss as many tackles as everyone says?" or "Is Tim Hightower as bald as everyone says?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 "Is Tim Hightower as bald as everyone says?" I hear he has a wig of dreads he got from Locks of Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 We will all find out tomorrow night. My biggest concern about Beck is unfortunately something we'll never have an answer to until the regular season. I think he'll play great tomorrow night. The Colts always stink in preseason -- look it up -- and he gets to throw in perfect conditions. Also, his critics who point out every bad practice report are ignoring the really positive recent ones. I just don't know how he'll play in a real game when defenses are mixing it up, etc.. You know, when the pressure is really on. Hopefully he'll do great. If not, we go to Rex. Personally, I'm a big believer in Grossman -- I think he's really underrated and is penalized too much for his rep. I mean, if John Beck posted the same stats last year as Grossman did, we all would be talking him up huge. But I'll trust the Shanahans. I think it took them a year to figure out just how big of a mess they inherited and have made nothing but smart moves since. If Beck is the opening day starter, I'll be behind it 100 percent. Well, unless he stinks in preseason while Rex shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarobinson Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Exactly what I was gonna say.Grossman has always been thought of as having a pretty decent arm, and Beck's is unanimously commented to be stronger. I thought the consensus on Grossman was that he had a totally average arm but has deluded himself into thinking he has a huge one... thus all the picks on the deep outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 How can they not know what they're looking at? In what way can guys who get paid to look at football for a living not know what they're looking at? I'm not saying those guys aren't credible. I'm saying that I don't look to those guys for definitive player assessments. They're paid on their ability to write and report 'news' much more then their ability to assess football. Guys like Keim and Rich Campbell go into a lot of detail about what they're seeing, and show a lot more knowledge of football than I think you're giving them credit for.Keim and Campbell are no doubt the 2 best beat guys.It's hard for me to believe that a group of guys who see the same thing at practice nearly every day are all somehow wrong, and that none of them know what they're seeing, and they're all biased against Beck.That's fine I'm not asking you to believe what I believe.But, when the same writers were openly laughing at the thought of Beck as the starter leads me to believe that some might harbor a bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryGreenMonk Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'm saying that I don't look to those guys for definitive player assessments. You dont need to. Simply go to youtube, play his highlights from all of last years pre-season games and his highlights from Miami. You will find only 1 pass completed deep. You'll see several overthrows and one underthrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You dont need to. Simply go to youtube, play his highlights from all of last years pre-season games and his highlights from Miami.You will find only 1 pass completed deep. You'll see several overthrows and one underthrow. I definitely have my concerns too, but we'll see tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The last mention of Beck's arm in practice was Anthony Armstrong on Redskins.com video a couple days ago talking about the differences between Beck and Grossman. Each time a receiver discusses that topic it's the same answer and it's usually a 5 second assessment in interviews throughout camp. Affirmative - it's right around the .40 second mark http://prod.www.redskins.clubs.nfl.com/media-gallery/videos/Anthony-Armstrong-8-15/affebb38-63f7-4c15-add1-14bf30da79a6 He actually says Beck throws a little sharper ball...a little stronger ball..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Becks a midrange passer. I think he will be very adept at the short game. However, he will have to prove he can hit the deep ball once teams try to take away the short game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I think the Ravens game will be the real test for Beck and/or Grossman. Harbaugh goes out of his way to bring it against us in preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You dont need to. Simply go to youtube, play his highlights from all of last years pre-season games and his highlights from Miami.You will find only 1 pass completed deep. You'll see several overthrows and one underthrow. Oh, I've watched the youtube cut-ups (not highlights) of John Beck and for me John Beck's deep ball is no more in doubt then any QB w/ only a handful of starts.The ability to throw deep is a physical ability that he displayed in college, unless he suffered some injury between then and now, I don't see why he would suddenly lose that ability. I think its ironic that people are in essence knocking him for hitting a low percentages of passes that are actually low percentage passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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