NYT Blog: Keep Your Government Hands Off My Government Programs!

[Fergasun]

Let me spin a tale. It's a tale about a husband and wife. Let's call the husband "Mr. Individual". Let's call the wife "Mrs. Corporation". In general, husband and wife paid the same amount as a percentage of their income for the household expenses. This seemed to be a fair arrangement. Then one day, the wife said, "I don't want to do that" and she started to pay less and less for of her income for the good of the household. In order to make up for the short-fall, the husband started paying more and more. This went on for years, and the gap between their payments as a percentage of their income widened. The wife bought all the things she wanted, lots of Prada bags, lots of shoes, pumps, all imported from Italy. The husband couldn't afford it, he was paying not only his share of expenses but also had to make up for the lack of payments for his wife. All he could afford was Direct TV NFL Sunday ticket. Finally one day the wife came home. She checked their bank accounts. She had a ton of money in hers, but just didn't want to pay any of her expenses. His was nearly drained, he could barely afford his Direct TV payments, but he could make them. The husband said to the wife, "can't you pay any more?" She looked at him with a straight face and said, "Nope, sorry... I don't want to. By the way... we can't afford Direct TV anymore, we're broke."

[shk75]

I think this is another example of how there has been a shift in American politics to the right. A common misconception is that historically Republicans have been against welfare state spending. The truth is that you really did not see this until they took control over Congress and the Senate in 1994. Programs like Medicare and Social Security have historically had very strong support from both Democrats and Republicans and Republicans even passed Medicare part D because popular support was so strong for expansion of benefits. The truth is when Republicans have tried to cut entitlement spending it has not worked well at all and programs like the Oregon plan aimed at improving cost-effectiveness ended up being political suicide.

[Seabee1973]

the only way to raise taxes is to raise them on the middle class and poor

[NoCalMike]

the only way to raise taxes is to raise them on the middle class and poor

In the current political climate, yep. Obama and the Dems had the american people on THEIR SIDE on the taxes issue, as far as not giving the wealthiest americans a tax cut, but they, especially Obama rolled over and gave in. This was even after some prominent ®s such as Bohner finally broke down and said, "if given a choice between middle class tax cuts or no tax cuts, I will vote yes on the middle class tax cuts"

To act like the majority of Mainstream Dems are anything but Centrist wolves in Democrat clothing is being naive.

The mainstream left has been moving to the center since the 80's. Maybe not on social issues, but definitely on economic policy, and it is because there is no possibly way to combat the money that is buttering their bread. There is no alternate way to raise the amount of money the corporations donate. The Unions who are the last major contributor for the Dems are now under attack. Wisconsin is most likely just the first step.

When it comes to economic policy, the Dems might not believe in their heart they are doing what's best, but they are rolling over and doing it anyway. The same money that butters the ® bread is right there willing to butter the (D) bread as well.

[Major Harris]

Make up your mind. Is it a road, or a lot?

~Burp

who farted?

[mardi gras skin]

the only way to raise taxes is to raise them on the middle class and poor

I don't know if its the only way but I do feel strongly that the middle class to lower middle class should pay taxes. We're a family of 4 with a mortgage and the government says we don't make enough money to pay taxes. But I have enough money at the end of the year to buy an iPad or a new piece of living room furniture or add a bathroom to my basement. My daughters take gymnastics and we go out to eat with friends on a regular basis. I get a 2 dollar coffee at Caribou or Starbucks almost every day. We give 10 to 12 percent of our income to charity. It is amazing to me that we can do all that but the government has decided people like us don't earn enough to contribute at least a little to income tax.

[Larry]

We're a family of 4 with a mortgage and the government says we don't make enough money to pay taxes.

Really? That's amazing. Tell me, how do you avoid paying FICA? Property taxes? Sales tax?

Don't know about you, but where I live, half of our utility bill is a tax. (The Utility company is owned by the county, and they intentionally overcharge for utilities. Approximately half of the money they take in, goes to the county.)

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On a more serious note, though. I'd bet that the reason you pay no income tax is because of those two kids. If you feel like doing an experiment, then when you do your taxes this year, tell Turbo Tax that you don't have kids, and see what it says your taxes are.

Now, whether we ought to be giving such tax breaks to people with kids, I can certainly see the debate. I'm just saying that I suspect that the reason for what you're observing isn't because middle class tax rates are too low, it's because of the deductions and credits for having kids.

[Major Harris]

I don't know if its the only way but I do feel strongly that the middle class to lower middle class should pay taxes. We're a family of 4 with a mortgage and the government says we don't make enough money to pay taxes. But I have enough money at the end of the year to buy an iPad or a new piece of living room furniture or add a bathroom to my basement. My daughters take gymnastics and we go out to eat with friends on a regular basis. I get a 2 dollar coffee at Caribou or Starbucks almost every day. We give 10 to 12 percent of our income to charity. It is amazing to me that we can do all that but the government has decided people like us don't earn enough to contribute at least a little to income tax.

you can still send them some $$ lol.

[mardi gras skin]

On a more serious note, though. I'd bet that the reason you pay no income tax is because of those two kids. If you feel like doing an experiment, then when you do your taxes this year, tell Turbo Tax that you don't have kids, and see what it says your taxes are.

Now, whether we ought to be giving such tax breaks to people with kids, I can certainly see the debate. I'm just saying that I suspect that the reason for what you're observing isn't because middle class tax rates are too low, it's because of the deductions and credits for having kids.

Yes, but we're a pretty average family. 2 kids and a mortgage. I'm sure there are a lot of Americans in our income bracket with similar deductions. It seems to me that the block of us should contribute something.

you can still send them some $$ lol.

We don't send them money but we leave a lot of money on the table. We qualify for free lunches which is even more astounding than not paying taxes. We make PLENTY enough money to feed our kids much less all the luxuries. With two kids in school, that's about $1000 a year we choose not to take from the government.