Champskins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 "And you build it from the inside out," Collier said. "The nose tackle and the inside linebackers, those are three guys that are very important. But when you go through it, the nose tackle is probably the single-most important guy."He has to hold it all together and make it so the guards can't get out on the inside linebackers. Let me put it this way - the nose tackle can make the inside linebackers look pretty good, and if your inside linebackers look pretty good, you're going to play pretty good defense." * Nose tackle (plays over the center): "He has to be strong, have good balance and be willing to battle in there all the time. No plays off. He makes it go." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Why not keep on going and sign a couple wide receivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Jenkins is probably a good starting point - he got his contract as a 29 year old, but was a better player. I'm fine with giving Soliai top 5 at the position money - which is what he will end up getting. I am not fine with giving top 5 money to any additional free agent, which we will undoubtably do anyway. You can't rebuild when you nonchalantly hand out contracts like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Levi Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 * Nose tackle (plays over the center): "He has to be strong, have good balance and be willing to battle in there all the time. No plays off. He makes it go." Well, we are set then! That fits #92's profile! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 ...Would be the continuation of an unsustainable method of team building, and proof that nothing has changed. how? all 3 contribute to the spots that we need filled... along with keeping our draft picks.. AND all are under 30.. soo im lost here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I am not fine with giving top 5 money to any additional free agent, which we will undoubtably do anyway. You can't rebuild when you nonchalantly hand out contracts like this. We can probably safely dole out two fairly hefty contracts this offseason if need be. So long as we stick to that, I'd really only be especially worried about overpaying for a wide receiver. how? all 3 contribute to the spots that we need filled... along with keeping our draft picks.. AND all are under 30.. soo im lost here.. Each of those players you listed could command a fairly large contract. With a salary cap likely to be back in place before the next season of football begins, that kind of spending binge can be a little risky and can make it more difficult to retain players and sign depth down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Anyone know what his salary was last year? That fact, along with the knowledge that he wants more of a raise than the 30-percent rule will allow, should give us at least the basement on what it will take to sign the guy. OK, so I decided to spend the time to answer my own question. Here's Solai's salary history: 2007 - $705,000 (included $470,000 signing bonus) 2008 - $375,640 2009 - $466,240 So the 30-percent rule means the Dolphins can't pay him more than $606,112 next year. Paying him what Kelly Gregg got would certainly make him happy, while not really breaking the bank for the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 ...Would be the continuation of an unsustainable method of team building, and proof that nothing has changed. When's the last time we got 3-4 guys in positions of need just entering the prime of their careers with no draft picks involved? With the cap space we have and could create, we could add the players mentioned, draft additional young talent, and really begin reshaping this team. Edit: I'd like to add that I'm out of the business of questioning these types of moves if they are made by the Redskins. When Vinny was in charge, I think it was warranted. However, with Allen and Shanahan working together, I'm going to trust that they will perform a decent cost-benefit analysis before acquiring players via FA. So, if they pick up one of these guys, I'll assume that one is all they could afford within the context of their long-term plan. If they pick up all four of these guys, I'll make the same assumption. The fact that Gibbs, Snyder, and Cerrato spent picks and almost $100M in contracts to bring in Randle-El, Lloyd, Carter, and Archuleta 5 years ago means nothing when it comes to this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 So the 30-percent rule means the Dolphins can't pay him more than $606,112 next year. Paying him what Kelly Gregg got would certainly make him happy, while not really breaking the bank for the Skins. Kelly's contract was extended back in 2007, though, as was Jay Ratliff (who makes slightly less, IIRC). Raji, Wilfork, and Hampton represent the more recent signings/extensions, so I'd expect Soliai's market value to trend towards but not quite approach that of their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Kelly's contract was extended back in 2007, though, as was Jay Ratliff (who makes slightly less, IIRC). Raji, Wilfork, and Hampton represent the more recent signings/extensions, so I'd expect Soliai's market value to trend towards but not quite approach that of their contracts. So you think something like 5 years/$25M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Kelly's contract was extended back in 2007, though, as was Jay Ratliff (who makes slightly less, IIRC). Raji, Wilfork, and Hampton represent the more recent signings/extensions, so I'd expect Soliai's market value to trend towards but not quite approach that of their contracts. Understood. But we're still not talking Hayensworth money by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantarchy Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Understood. But we're still not talking Hayensworth money by any stretch. Speaking of Haynesworth, what happens if we can't unload him? Would you still want to pick up this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icbmayday Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 This would be a great pick up for us....... Def need to look into this guy only problem is everyone is going to want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 We can probably safely dole out two fairly hefty contracts this offseason if need be. So long as we stick to that, I'd really only be especially worried about overpaying for a wide receiver.Each of those players you listed could command a fairly large contract. With a salary cap likely to be back in place before the next season of football begins, that kind of spending binge can be a little risky and can make it more difficult to retain players and sign depth down the line. considering we dump the fat man and dmc5 and a few other bad contracts i believe we came to a salary free space of around 53 mill.. that enough? right now we estimated at 33 mill.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 When's the last time we got 3-4 guys in positions of need just entering the prime of their careers with no draft picks involved? With the cap space we have and could create, we could add the players mentioned, draft additional young talent, and really begin reshaping this team.... So, if they pick up one of these guys, I'll assume that one is all they could afford within the context of their long-term plan. If they pick up all four of these guys, I'll make the same assumption. The fact that Gibbs, Snyder, and Cerrato spent picks and almost $100M in contracts to bring in Randle-El, Lloyd, Carter, and Archuleta 5 years ago means nothing when it comes to this off-season. Didn't Randle-El, Carter, and Archuleta all fill a need as well? Weren't they all in the primes of their career too? (26, 26, 28) It has been proven that time and time again that free agency can not be extensively used to build a team. Yet we keep making excuses for it. Free Agency is an amazing tool to add a starter or two, as well as role players. It is not a tool to be used to fill multiple holes every year. It ties up too many resources, and limits a teams ability to develop young talent. But we will sign a bunch of guys this year, and people will say, "no, no, it's different this year, Mike Shanahan has never had a free agent bust, Bruce Allen is a frugal GM*." Then when the predictable results are the same, and its the same old galleries with "Top 10 Redskins Free Agent Busts" but with new slides, people will wonder what went wrong this time. *Never mind that Shanahan has a pretty awful record of big name free agents, and Bruce Allen was only frugal because he worked for a frugal owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 OK, so I decided to spend the time to answer my own question. Here's Solai's salary history:2007 - $705,000 (included $470,000 signing bonus) 2008 - $375,640 2009 - $466,240 So the 30-percent rule means the Dolphins can't pay him more than $606,112 next year. Paying him what Kelly Gregg got would certainly make him happy, while not really breaking the bank for the Skins. Good work there, the only problem I see is a bidding war, in which case the Redskins should skip him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Good work there, the only problem I see is a bidding war, in which case the Redskins should skip him. No No, we have all this cap space, we can "pay him whatever he wants." Again, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Didn't Randle-El, Carter, and Archuleta all fill a need as well? Weren't they all in the primes of their career too? (26, 26, 28)It has been proven that time and time again that free agency can not be extensively used to build a team. Yet we keep making excuses for it. Free Agency is an amazing tool to add a starter or two, as well as role players. It is not a tool to be used to fill multiple holes every year. It ties up too many resources, and limits a teams ability to develop young talent. But we will sign a bunch of guys this year, and people will say, "no, no, it's different this year, Mike Shanahan has never had a free agent bust, Bruce Allen is a frugal GM*." Then when the predictable results are the same, and its the same old galleries with "Top 10 Redskins Free Agent Busts" but with new slides, people will wonder what went wrong this time. *Never mind that Shanahan has a pretty awful record of big name free agents, and Bruce Allen was only frugal because he worked for a frugal owner you have got to stop living in the vinny age man.. your like a scared little girl afraid to take advantage of top players.. sure it hasnt worked in the past but hell we changed coaches and scheme year after year almost and had the worst possible chemistry known to man. Eventually you will have to take the bull by the horns and make move.. Jets and Bears both made big moves this off season and both were sitting 1 game away from the SB.. plus imo the 3 guys i named are low profile hard working guys.. hell 1 was drafted by Bruce himself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Speaking of Haynesworth, what happens if we can't unload him? Would you still want to pick up this guy? If no one will give us a third for Fat Albert, then you keep him, play him as a three-technique end in the nickel on a line with Carriker and Solai and see how many sacks he can get you. With the restructured deal he signed last year, Albert's cap number is very manageable this year and I don't think you need to panic and dump him for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Didn't Randle-El, Carter, and Archuleta all fill a need as well? Weren't they all in the primes of their career too? (26, 26, 28)It has been proven that time and time again that free agency can not be extensively used to build a team. Yet we keep making excuses for it. Free Agency is an amazing tool to add a starter or two, as well as role players. It is not a tool to be used to fill multiple holes every year. It ties up too many resources, and limits a teams ability to develop young talent. But we will sign a bunch of guys this year, and people will say, "no, no, it's different this year, Mike Shanahan has never had a free agent bust, Bruce Allen is a frugal GM*." Then when the predictable results are the same, and its the same old galleries with "Top 10 Redskins Free Agent Busts" but with new slides, people will wonder what went wrong this time. *Never mind that Shanahan has a pretty awful record of big name free agents, and Bruce Allen was only frugal because he worked for a frugal owner Well, yes and no. First of all, we gave up at least two picks for Lloyd (and I thought one of the other three moves was also a trade). Secondly, only Carter really fit into what we needed. We took a #3 WR/gimmick-play guy and tried to make him a #2 WR. We took a head-case in Lloyd and tried to make him a #3. We took a safety who plays in the box and tried to make him cover. So, age-wise they were OK. However, they didn't really fit the true needs that we had and we gave up more than salary cap space to attain them. Now, it's possible that some of the guys mentioned aren't perfect fits either...but like I said in the post that you quoted, I'm going to assume that Allen and Shanahan will do a better job than Vinny, Snyder, and Gibbs when it comes to identifying needs and acquiring talent. Edit: I also think that Allen has shown that he's cost-conscious here already. He restructured deals and made a pretty smart contract extension for McNabb. There's no reason to believe he was ONLY frugal because he worked in Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 So you think something like 5 years/$25M? It's basically a shot in the dark without knowing what value NFL teams are placing on the guy but I'd guess it would be between that and 5/$35m with guaranteed money being the key variable in the equation. Soliai doesn't exactly have the most extensive resume so you'd have to imagine the best way to get him might be to offer up a relatively big number that's mostly derived from incentives. This is mostly just conjecture on my part, though. Understood. But we're still not talking Hayensworth money by any stretch. Fortunately not Speaking of Haynesworth, what happens if we can't unload him? Would you still want to pick up this guy? If the coaching staff thinks he can improve the team and is worth the cost, then you still pick him up regardless of what happens with Haynesworth. I have no doubt that Shanahan would be willing to keep Haynesworth out of spite if the right offer doesn't come along and will continue to try to break his spirit and mold him into a team player in the process. If Fat Al continues to act like a spoiled brat then reinforcing the defensive line will clearly have been a good move. If he miraculously shapes up then we simply have more weapons in our arsenal. Normally money would complicate this kind of situation... but Haynesworth is cheap to retain at this point so it's a non-issue. considering we dump the fat man and dmc5 and a few other bad contracts i believe we came to a salary free space of around 53 mill.. that enough? right now we estimated at 33 mill.. That $53 million figure seemed like the result of a very aggressive purge if I'm remembering the thread you're referencing correctly. When you consider the number of players we'd have to sign just to fill out the roster (roughly half the squad) that cap space could begin to dry up more quickly than a lot of people realize unless we somehow accrue a large number of players out of the draft and as UDFAs who can hold down a roster spot. We're in a better position cap-wise than we've been in for quite some time. That doesn't mean we should rush to use all of it just to sign all the guys we think would be nice additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If no one will give us a third for Fat Albert, then you keep him, play him as a three-technique end in the nickel on a line with Carriker and Solai and see how many sacks he can get you. With the restructured deal he signed last year, Albert's cap number is very manageable this year and I don't think you need to panic and dump him for nothing. Yep...if you have to, you can always play him at DE assuming we get a good NT. The money is sunk already, so unless they get compensation, they have the option to play him. I hope they can unload him though. It's counter-intuitive to root for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 you have got to stop living in the vinny age man.. your like a scared little girl afraid to take advantage of top players.. sure it hasnt worked in the past but hell we changed coaches and scheme year after year almost and had the worst possible chemistry known to man. Eventually you will have to take the bull by the horns and make move.. Jets and Bears both made big moves this off season and both were sitting 1 game away from the SB.. plus imo the 3 guys i named are low profile hard working guys.. hell 1 was drafted by Bruce himself.. You need to stop living in the Madden age man. This is how a child would build a football team. It's pretty freaking simple to see how to rebuild a team, its happening all around us. Rams, Bucs, Lions, Falcons, etc. Use the draft, don't rely on free agents. Look at the teams build for long term dominance - Steelers, Packers, Patriots, Colts, Eagles. The proof is in the pudding. The Packers signed one (1!) big name free agent in six years - Charles Woodson, and only one other multi-year deal (Pickett). Now they have a team with only 3 starters over 30, poised to dominated for years. So keep trying to mircowave success. It's working well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 That $53 million figure seemed like the result of a very aggressive purge if I'm remembering the thread you're referencing correctly. When you consider the number of players we'd have to sign just to fill out the roster (roughly half the squad) that cap space could begin to dry up more quickly than a lot of people realize unless we somehow accrue a large number of players out of the draft and as UDFAs who can hold down a roster spot. We're in a better position cap-wise than we've been in for quite some time. That doesn't mean we should rush to use all of it just to sign all the guys we think would be nice additions. true but isn't shanny great at doing that.. coupling his nack for getting good players through UDFA and getting 2 guys on the Defensive side that right off the bat help us difference with teams like the steelers and packers is that right now they are able to draft because they had teams that had good players on them already.. this team is stripped to poo and more poo.. literally 7 good players.. it will take years to build this team through the draft.. considering you get 3-4 players out of every draft. Then having to develop them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 There is going to be a turn over of our roster, like few teams have ever seen I think. We may cut/trade/let walk/ whatever Portis, Moss, Fat Al, Rogers, Sellers, Rocky, Dock, McNabb, Doughty, Buch, Rabach, Brown and others. Should be a blast to watch. People want the team rebuilt, well, here it comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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