A smart thing and a dumb one.

[Woofer]

Originally posted by Art

I've long felt more comfortable with the prospects of Wuerffel on the field for us if Ramsey sputters than for Rob Johnson to be there.

If Ramsey sputters?

Now look, I really like Ramsey - I believe he has the tools and the mind to be a great QB for us.

But it is not realistic to think he won't sputter this year.

To use an engine for an anology:

If you start a cold engine, and it sputters, what do you do?

You turn it off and go get another one, right? Only if you have an easy way to use the second engine; if for some reason, you just "have a feeling" that the second engine can run better.

But if you only have one engine:

- short term, you give it some gas and rev it up until it runs a little smoother.

- long term, you tune it up.

As far as a rift between Spurrier and Snyder:

I would hope that Spurrier is more mature than to quit 'cause "they cut Danny!".

Please, Mr. Woody, say it ain't so.

[Art]

GA,

I understand and appreciate how you may consider Spurrier's pay all Spurrier needs to be happy and productive in his job. If Wuerffel brings peace to Spurrier -- makes Spurrier feel he's sticking it to the media and Mel Kiper and whoever -- then let the man have it. It's not about what you or I may think Spurrier needs. It's about what Spurrier may think he needs.

When you attack his concept on what he likes in a QB as we've now done by undermining him with the release of Wuerffel, you strike at the core of who he is as a coach and you shake the fabric of the man you brought in. You need Spurrier confident and in control for him to be at his best. If you had a prospect who was just a great future talent at the QB spot and you were deciding between giving in to Spurrier then, I may have a different opinion.

But, knowing how much Spurrier likes having Wuerffel around and how highly he thinks of him and how strongly Spurrier feels his ability to know and teach QBs is, you can't go after that position or that player unless there's just overwhelming ability that Spurrier isn't paying attention to who could be lost in the balance.

Spurrier IS a big boy, but you're kidding yourself if you think he'll get over this. He won't. You saw stuff about Florida where he didn't like some of the things the athletic director did in the last few years. He never went on the record against him, but, a force behind his departure was he wasn't going to put up with it any more. How big a force I can't say, but it has been reported he doesn't forget a slight. Ever.

He remembers them and when he succeeds, he sticks it to the people who slighted him. We don't need him sticking it to Snyder if he becomes successful. Spurrier doesn't forget this sort of thing. I don't know that we'd want him to either. Part of the package that makes Spurrier potentially a very good coach is the underlying arrogance in his own abilities -- no matter how he downplays it. The man is brutal when he gets revenge. Let's try to keep him focused on the enemy in such things is all I'm saying.

[Tarhog]

Interesting thread (can't believe we're STILL talking about this though)....

I didn't think either cut made a whole lot of sense. If we were going to keep only 2 QBs, I'd have rather done it in order to keep a player like Watson, not some special teamer (hell, keep Watson as that special teamer for that matter). I also don't subscribe to the theory that we can 'bring DW in' anytime we need him....its not the same as having on the roster, practicing, having his head in the games throughout the season. We saw this summer what he looks like after not being with the team for awhile.

As for Watson, I think one thing that keeps me from embracing that move is that I've only heard about Sultan, not actually seen him. If once I've seen him, I see the type of player Art describes, I'll understand the move. I'll never buy the 'Betts is clearly superior' argument. I might buy the 'Sultan is a future star and the only way we could keep him a Skin was to cut Watson' argument.

[GatorEye]

First I'm curious - if Sultan is so great and will be immediately snatched up if we released him, then why wasn't he drafted? That isn't a smart a$$ comment - it's a serious question.

As for Snyder giving the axe to DW, this is a mistake on many levels most of which have been articulated by Art. He brings an extra mentoring aspect to Ramsey and I still think he's better than Rob as a backup in a pinch. Worse off, Spurrier always works best in a me vs. them mentality. Unfortunately Snyder just added his name to the "them" list.

I posted these examples in another thread:

He remembered being beaten by Georgia as a player and continued to pummel them year after year as coach at UF. He ran up the score the one year we played at Athens instead of Jacksonville because "I wanted to be the first team to score 50 on them at home." Bill Curry fired Spurrier when Steve was an assistant coach at Ga. Tech (under Pepper Rodgers hence the connection). When Curry became coach at Kentucky, Spurrier rolled it up on them mercilessly.

Even his last act at UF was a jab at UF athletic director Jeremy Foley who refused to stand behind Steve when he accused FSU scum Darnell Docket of purposely injuring our running back. That and the fact that Foley would never bow to Steve's argument to acknowledge that our 1990 SEC Championship team be officially recognized by the university (we were on probation from something unrelated the year before). Spurrier's revenge - he quit by calling Foley from his cell phone on the way to his beach house, leaving the university with it's a$$ out in the wind right before recruiting season and catching everyone off guard.

What IF Ramsey struggles? I'm sure Steve is thinking with a better O-Line and better receivers that DW can perform better than he did last year. Whether or not that's true may never be proven, but I'm sure that was rattling around in Steve's noggin.

I just don't think you immasculate a coach at the position that he is unquestionably best at judging talent. QB's are Steve's baby and by forcing his hand on that position is bad enough much less that it's his favorite son. Let's not forget - Ramsey was probably not Spurrier's draft choice. Spurrier gave the green light to unload him to Chicago so I'd say that's twice Snyder has influenced the QB position.

I hope we win, but I certainly hope Snyder doesn't pull an "I Told You So" on Steve. If we are mediocre after next year, I wouldn't be surprised to see Steve quit the day before the draft just to stick it in Danny's eye.

Hopefully this will all be moot after we win the Super Bowl this year and have to worry about the pressure to repeat.

[Montilar]

First I'm curious - if Sultan is so great and will be immediately snatched up if we released him, then why wasn't he drafted? That isn't a smart a$$ comment - it's a serious question.

Apparently he went throught 3 or 4 coaching changes in school. And got a rep that was advertised to the nfl as being uncoachable and a problem child. Yet he was the teams best back for 3 years or so there.

Hue Jackson (the OC for the skins) was one of those coaches and was interested in bringing him in here. I think one article even has McCullough mentioning that Jackson had called him and told him they might invest a lower draft pick in him pre-draft.

As far as "emasculating" Spurrier by cutting Waffle, please. If Spurrier has to have Weurfel to succeed, then I don't want Spurrier. He's supposed to be a Qb genius and needs his wittle securty blanket?????? Maybe Johnson would be further along if he'd play him in the preseason and practises instead of the just signed Weurfel.... Spurrier's already admitted in an interview he didn't play Ramsey as much as they needed or wanted to.......

Maybe Weufel was okay in college. but he's proven beyond a shadow of doubt to be at BEST below average in the real league. Most would say almost incompetent.

Spurrier can quit whenever he wants. If he's that kind of @ss, then he ain't a redskin..... The team comes before his ego.

Hue Jackson might not be a bad head coach when his time comes up..... the skins offense looked it's best in the second preseason game when Jackson was calling the plays, not spurrier. Of course the 3rd preseason game was best of all.

[Yomar]

I agree that the team should come before ego and in this case I think the ego is Snyder's. When the owner starts showing up the coach it whittles away at the coach's authority with the players. We saw it with Norv and Snyder and I'm afraid we may be seeing it again. It poisons the atmosphere, and most troubling in my opinion, it is evidence to the contrary of what Snyder himself has said in terms of learning from one's mistakes. You hire Spurrier, he is your guy, you have to let him make these kinds of decisions, otherwise grab a headset and go embarass yourself on the sidelines. Its why Marty demanded complete autonomy and why he was right in doing so. Its not about D Weurful or Rob Johnson, its about letting people you hire for their expertise do the job you hired them for.

[GSF]

Originally posted by Art

GA,

I understand and appreciate how you may consider Spurrier's pay all Spurrier needs to be happy and productive in his job. If Wuerffel brings peace to Spurrier -- makes Spurrier feel he's sticking it to the media and Mel Kiper and whoever -- then let the man have it. It's not about what you or I may think Spurrier needs. It's about what Spurrier may think he needs.

When you attack his concept on what he likes in a QB as we've now done by undermining him with the release of Wuerffel, you strike at the core of who he is as a coach and you shake the fabric of the man you brought in. You need Spurrier confident and in control for him to be at his best. If you had a prospect who was just a great future talent at the QB spot and you were deciding between giving in to Spurrier then, I may have a different opinion.

But, knowing how much Spurrier likes having Wuerffel around and how highly he thinks of him and how strongly Spurrier feels his ability to know and teach QBs is, you can't go after that position or that player unless there's just overwhelming ability that Spurrier isn't paying attention to who could be lost in the balance.

Spurrier IS a big boy, but you're kidding yourself if you think he'll get over this. He won't. You saw stuff about Florida where he didn't like some of the things the athletic director did in the last few years. He never went on the record against him, but, a force behind his departure was he wasn't going to put up with it any more. How big a force I can't say, but it has been reported he doesn't forget a slight. Ever.

He remembers them and when he succeeds, he sticks it to the people who slighted him. We don't need him sticking it to Snyder if he becomes successful. Spurrier doesn't forget this sort of thing. I don't know that we'd want him to either. Part of the package that makes Spurrier potentially a very good coach is the underlying arrogance in his own abilities -- no matter how he downplays it. The man is brutal when he gets revenge. Let's try to keep him focused on the enemy in such things is all I'm saying.

I'm not trying to attack anyone. You make Spurrier sound like an adolescent, and if your description of him is accurate we may have mad a huge mistake hiring him. I thought Spurrier was supposed to be Mr. Confident to the point of arrogance yet you fear losing DW or Snyder overriding him will shake the fabric of his manhood? I'm with Montilar on this one. If SOS is that big of an Ass that he's going to quit b/c he didn't get his way then we don't need him. How many coaches have been successful now with complete control like Marty wanted? I can really only think of one in Parcells and he quits everywhere he goes. One more thing. I don't remeber the specifics, but wasn't there an interview last year with Spurrier where he was saying that he would do the coaching, the FO would get the players, and Snyder would settle the disputes between the 2. Sounds like that's exactly what happened.