So why did we switch to the 3-4?

[Ryman of the North]

Because the different defenses require different playbooks and techniques that they spend all offseason installing. Did you honestly think we were SB bound this year? They need to find out who fits with what they want their identity to be for the long term. This is valuable learning experience for guys like Orakpo who will be here for a while.

I underlined that part of the quote because this is a huge part of the problem. Understand this, on both sides of the ball the Redskins lack top flight talent AND depth. Additionally, many heavy contributors are very close to the end. How many of these poor fitting 3-4 players are going to be here in 2 years? Our defense was not nearly as good as their yardage rankings implied. For one thing, we encouraged conservative playcalling from opposing O coordinators because everyone knew we couldn't score points or finish games on offense. Everyone also, magically likes to forget how poorly the D played in 2006 and for solid stretches in 07, 08 and 09. But the real key is they usually came up short at the end of games, in crunch time and they never made game changing plays or gave the offense a short field to work with. Yeah, switching to the 3-4 now might costs us a couple games this year but this is a defense that needs fresh blood throughout all levels and you might as well build it to be what you want it to be and that has to start from day one, not 2 or 3 years in.

They have more talent on defense to work and we certainly don't have their offense, much as I like McNabb. We have a long way to go to match their overall talent level. I was pointing them out as a case in point that 3-4 takes time. They got lit the hell up, run and pass early in the season but were able to settle down and learn as the season went on. Shanahan is playing chess, you're playing checkers.

How exactly would being decent running a 4-3 be worse than sucking with a 3-4 FOR THE LONG TERM? im just curious because the 3-4 people have bacled off on how awesome it wouldbe for us right away which was the initial sell for this idiocy and now say its better long term. how is it better long term? we suck now, we will suck next year and probably the year after that, if we ran a 4-3 we would be decent now , better next year and better the year after that.

[Prosperity]

That's what's happening. However, when the previous administration leaves you with 4 draft picks that certainly doesn't make it any easier. It's going to take a few years to purge the roster of all the overpaid, underachieving veterans who've played here for so long.

yeah I think so too, especially with the way Shanahan has dealt with Haynesworth...

that fat **** Haynesworth... the epitome of the Snyderball and all its failures

oh well, maybe we can trade him for a 4th rounder or something

[DCsportsfan53]

How exactly would being decent running a 4-3 be worse than sucking with a 3-4 FOR THE LONG TERM? im just curious because the 3-4 people have bacled off on how awesome it wouldbe for us right away which was the initial sell for this idiocy and now say its better long term. how is it better long term? we suck now, we will suck next year and probably the year after that, if we ran a 4-3 we would be decent now , better next year and better the year after that.

I never thought it would be awesome right away and, like I said, yeah we probably lose a couple games this year because of it. What I'm curious about is why people who didn't even think we were a playoff team this year are so up in arms about a scheme switch that takes time to make work and would need more than one offseason to acquire all the players for. What's the difference? I want to see us be good long term, one of those teams you know is always in the hunt every year. That's what I want to see. That comes from building an identity and roster from the ground up. I think we're finally headed in that direction with quality leadership, I'm willing to take the lumps.

Edit: What makes you so confident that we will continue to suck at the 3-4 in future years? You have no idea what guys they end up bringing in. It's the way the league is headed, you're not allowed to cover anymore so it's all about the confusion and pressure. Long term, obviously, Shanahan thinks that will be more effective and that's the identity he wants for his team. Neither you nor I know how it will look at the end of this year, let alone in future seasons.

[akorn22]

The problem here is that the division is easily winnable this year. The Giants look pretty bad, we already have one up on the cowboys, and the eagles are unproven with an inaccurate qb. None of the teams in the NFC east are that spectacular. Our offense is half decent and shows signs of life. Its just really hard to digest the notion that we actually have a chance at being top of the division but we're wasting the opportunity because they decided it was a good idea to switch to 3-4 when our team obviously consists of solid 4-3 personnel. You play to win the game. It kinda seems like andy reid realized how open the division is and decided to make the switch to vick. basically, i agree with the op. This team has just been an offense away from being a contender and now we have that, along with a qb who we only have for a year right now...why ruin it by messing with an already good defense

[Ryman of the North]

because you cant reset an entire roster in one season. we need far too many things to make this defence work, and we wont get them all in one offseason especially not now with our new reputation.

I know exactly how it will look, next season will will have to spend a high pick on a NT, a pick that we need on offence. we also need an OLB, so either we overspend on a free agent because OLBs do NOT come cheap or we yet again draft one with a pick needed for our aging offence. oh dont forget that we need a FS and a DE who can play in a 3-4 and oh a couple ILBs would be nice. oh and some depth would be good.

[MumboSauce]

The defense was appalling. Period. Atrocious.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I understand that Shanahan wanted an agressive defense that forced turnovers...and I'm fine with that.

But why couldn't we run a super agressive 4-3 scheme with some 3-4 looks?

[Frostx08]

because you cant reset an entire roster in one season. we need far too many things to make this defence work, and we wont get them all in one offseason especially not now with our new reputation.

I know exactly how it will look, next season will will have to spend a high pick on a NT, a pick that we need on offence. we also need an OLB, so either we overspend on a free agent because OLBs do NOT come cheap or we yet again draft one with a pick needed for our aging offence. oh dont forget that we need a FS and a DE who can play in a 3-4 and oh a couple ILBs would be nice. oh and some depth would be good.

Dude we won't spend a high pick on a NT. We will either sign a solid one through a trade or free agency

Randy Moss and Vincent Jackson may be available next season..so we could sign one of them

Ryan Torrain and Keiland Williams are young..but I doubt they both will be here next year. We may sign a RB in the draft

I think the next offseason will be used to get McNabb more weapons and sign or draft some Defensive backs and Linebackers that will work well with the 3-4. The offseason after that will be even better

[Ryman of the North]

Dude we won't spend a high pick on a NT. We will either sign a solid one through a trade or free agency

Randy Moss and Vincent Jackson may be available next season..so we could sign one of them

Ryan Torrain and Keiland Williams are young..but I doubt they both will be here next year. We may sign a RB in the draft

I think the next offseason will be used to get McNabb more weapons and sign or draft some Defensive backs and Linebackers that will work well with the 3-4. The offseason after that will be even better

because so many nosetackles who are even decent see free agency? are you even paying attention at all?

[Frostx08]

because so many nosetackles who are even decent see free agency? are you even paying attention at all?

Read that sentence again...

[Enter Apotheosis]

Orakpo's talents are not exploited in a 3-4. He's playing out of position, and he's being asked to do things he's never done and isn't really good at (like every other guy on this defense).

Orakpo has done everything he's doing now as a 3-4 OLB before. It's amazing how quickly we forget that he was a 4-3 LB and situational DE last season.

And how effective is our 3-4 at exploiting the talent on our roster. Last year, it looked like we had a defense with above-average talent. This year, it looks like we have one of the least talented defenses in the NFL.

Also, what about Carter and Haynesworth? Arguably, Fletcher is less effective in the 3-4.

That's not the way I see it at all...

We didn't actually look all that talented last season and many of our strengths and weaknesses are essentially unchanged. This year we're getting pushed up and down the field a bit more but the end result is more or less the same (through three games we are averaging only one more point allowed per game than we did last season) and the character of our defense is very similar (strong early in games but fades late and consistently fails to come through in clutch situations). Even in terms of individual players, things haven't really changed.

The only player who has become completely lost in the transition to the new scheme is Andre Carter and this may be somewhat offset by the vastly improved play of one LaRon Landry. Everyone else seems to be following their typical modus operandi. Orakpo is still playing somewhat of a hybrid position and is on pace for 10-11 sacks, Fletcher is on pace for 140 or so tackles and has been an extremely solid all-around player, McIntosh is quietly solid, the secondary is collectively a pretty decent bunch but each player still has their individual Achilles' heel, and the defensive line still struggles to consistently get push up the middle which often makes the efforts of our edge rushers futile.

As far as Haynesworth goes, his problems aren't a matter of scheme as much as they are matters of character and culture. I've seen enough from him to know that he can make plays as a 3-4 DE (NT to a much lesser extent, though) and still has tremendous physical presence when he actually feels like putting the work in. He's certainly not a victim of the defensive scheme, he's a victim of his own outlook and a head coach with no tolerance for bull****.

TL;DR - Same crap, different year with new advertising and fans who have extremely high expectations that likely can not be met.

[seriously]

TL;DR - Same crap, different year with new advertising and fans who have extremely high expectations that likely can not be met.

That's what I keep feeling like, schemes/coaches/players have changed.... Results are still the same.

As for the defense, maybe I need to really look but just shooting from the hip I feel like our change in scheme is premature... With the personnel we have, I could chew on the change if we had a LOT of younger talent that would be taught to learn and produce in the next 2-3 years...

The whole "exploit talent we have in Orakpo & Landry" is just ridiculous to me, they can be good in either scheme, it's the other 9 on the field who are ****ting the bed...

[Oldfan]

That's what's happening. However, when the previous administration leaves you with 4 draft picks that certainly doesn't make it any easier. It's going to take a few years to purge the roster of all the overpaid, underachieving veterans who've played here for so long.

Then why trade two high picks for a 34 year-old QB?

[MustangSteve]

I first want to start off by saying Stephon Heyer is absolute garbage and should be cut imeadiatly. Ok now that I got that out of the way on to the topic at hand. For the last 9 out of 10 years there has been one aspect of redskins football that I have loved and had respect for and that is the defense that was ranked top ten in the league. We may not have forced many turnovers but we didn't give many yards or points. I have sat here for the past decade telling myself if we could just put up 21 points, 3 touchdowns a game, we would be extremely tough to beat because our defense would carry us.

This is a fact, this 3-4 defense we have does nothing but changes players every play. Therefore nobody can get a feel for what the offense is doing and we are getting toasted period.

Looking at other 3-4 defenses, they are shutting down offenses, but they are keeping their core unit in the game for most of it. I am so ready to go back to our old defense with just more blitz packages.

[nwoganja]

The real answer is because they (and we if we're realistic) all knew this wasn't a SB year. They're thinking long term, it's not about this season. It's about establishing an identity and course for the future of the Redskins and then building it brick by brick. Do we have good 3-4 personnel? No, not really. Are we as bad as we've played so far? No, it takes time. Look at last year's GB team. They had some of the same roster problems, they tried Aaron Kampman at 3-4 OLB but he struggled all year because he lacked the athleticism and lateral mobility for the position (sound familiar?). They were TERRIBLE early on but gradually got better and more comfortable as the season moved on. They acquired more pieces in the offseason, trade Kampmann and they look good so far this year. It doesn't happen overnight, I'm glad we have a coaching staff and front office who actually have a long term plan they're putting in place and sticking to. Switching right back to the 4-3, cutting this guy or that tonight...I'm just glad those kinds of thoughts are contained to the fanbase nowadays.

If Shanahan truly believes that the 3-4 is best in the long run he's much better off making the switch now, seeing who fits and who doesn't in a transition year. Come the 3rd or 4th year of his tenure, with a few drafts of their own coming of age, in his mind, it will be worth it. It's not about today or this season. You never have solid 3-4 personnel until you make the switch, is there a better time to switch then in the first year of a fresh identity?

This is such bs. This team isn't rebuilding for a long term. Get that out of your head. WE GOT MCNUGGET because we want to win it. WHY WASTE A PICK FOR MCNUGGET?

we were ranked #10 according to NFL defence rankings from last year's season(with Landry at FS)

we are currently ranked #DEADLAST in NFL defence.

With the 4-3 def scheme and the blitz packages w/ plrs playing at right spots = our team would def be 3-0. OUR WHOLE PROBLEM LAST YEAR WAS OFFENSE.

WHY mess up def that was actually above average? Its like making problems that we don't need.

[MusicCitySkin]

We're only dead last in yards given up. #31 in passing yards, and a surprising #11 in rushing yards. What puzzles me is that we're tied for #23 in interceptions and #15 in forced fumbles. We have two of each. Now wasn't one of the main reasons for this switch to cause more turnovers? Where are they? I realize it was also to cause sacks, which we're tied for #6 in, but where are the turnovers that are supposed to make up for all the home runs we've been giving away?

[nwoganja]

We're only dead last in yards given up. #31 in passing yards, and a surprising #11 in rushing yards. What puzzles me is that we're tied for #23 in interceptions and #15 in forced fumbles. We have two of each. Now wasn't one of the main reasons for this switch to cause more turnovers? Where are they? I realize it was also to cause sacks, which we're tied for #6 in, but where are the turnovers that are supposed to make up for all the home runs we've been giving away?

#11 in rushing yards def? Is that why Steven Jackson runs for 42 yds and get a TD. Must make sense.

[jfr3ek]

change all of your "hasnt's" to "HASLETTS" and you have your answer. There is a reason why he "HASLETT" been in the league for a couple years and we're paying the ultimate price. Say soo long top 10 defense. Hello, S#$#ty defense.

[maskedsuperstar]

Doesn't matter what base defense the Skins run, players are out of position. Linebackers aren't filling gaps. Poor tackling. Andre Carter doesn't belong on the field with this defense. I think everybody will agree. So, why isn't Chris Wilson starting? The OL is concentrating on Orakpo. Wilson can get to the QB and cover in space.

The Skins have a long term plan. This is just a bump in the road. Stop whining and crying about it. Give it a chance. ****!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maskedsuperstar]

change all of your "hasnt's" to "HASLETTS" and you have your answer. There is a reason why he "HASLETT" been in the league for a couple years and we're paying the ultimate price. Say soo long top 10 defense. Hello, S#$#ty defense.

What has a top 10 ranking given the Redskins? 4-12! Stop whining!

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

It is a good scheme, but we do not have the players (yet) to effective run the 3-4. When executed correctly this D canm produce many opportunities for turn overs.

[maskedsuperstar]

This is a fact, this 3-4 defense we have does nothing but changes players every play. Therefore nobody can get a feel for what the offense is doing and we are getting toasted period.

Looking at other 3-4 defenses, they are shutting down offenses, but they are keeping their core unit in the game for most of it. I am so ready to go back to our old defense with just more blitz packages.

Doesn't matter if you can't tackle. 3-4 is here too stay. This team was build with stop gap FA because of the current CBA situation.

[youngestson]

Well we did go from a defense that couldn't stop anyone when it counted to one that can't stop anyone anytime so yea, maybe a "modification" or "hybrid" or whatever the hell Haslett called it before the season might be a good option.

[greenspandan]

Randy Moss and Vincent Jackson may be available next season..so we could sign one of them

yay, more snyderball. i'm sure they'll work extra-hard once they get that fat contract, contrary to all previous evidence.

[greenspandan]

That's what's happening. However, when the previous administration leaves you with 4 draft picks that certainly doesn't make it any easier. It's going to take a few years to purge the roster of all the overpaid, underachieving veterans who've played here for so long.

Then why trade two high picks for a 34 year-old QB?

...who only has one year left before he hits free agency. ugh.