27 Quarterbacks McNabb's Age (or older)

[NDIrish]

aside from 2004 and Mcrapps stats were pretty close to johnsons johnson passed for more yards in a season despite being a back up for much of his career and , MOrton were backups so I didnt bother to count them, Chandler was comparable as was gannon thus bearing out my contention that Mcrapps numbers are far from those of a FRANCHISE QB. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you dont seem to understand that his one good year with a passer rating of 104 (which was by far his highest) throws it all off. also dont forget he threw the ball 65% of the time in a high percentage offence.

Considering Mcnabb has also played in 5 NFC championship Games it is an insult to mention him in the same breath as Chandler and Gannon. McNabb was/is an elite QB. Will he bring us to the Super Bowl? Only time will tell, but he is certainly a better option, more equipt to win over the next 2 years than J.C., Brennan, or any of the rookies.

[CurseReversed]

Last year Mcnabb had the fourth most YPG and the third best passer rating of his career.

Can't wait to see how he looks on the field for us. Despite all the arguments either way, I have no idea whether he will be good or not. Best guess would be medicore, but if anyone asks...we are winning the superbowl with him. Thats just how I roll.

[Bucaro]

aside from 2004 and Mcrapps stats were pretty close to johnsons johnson passed for more yards in a season despite being a back up for much of his career and , MOrton were backups so I didnt bother to count them, Chandler was comparable as was gannon thus bearing out my contention that Mcrapps numbers are far from those of a FRANCHISE QB. I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you dont seem to understand that his one good year with a passer rating of 104 (which was by far his highest) throws it all off. also dont forget he threw the ball 65% of the time in a high percentage offence.

The 104 only moves the average up 2 points, you don't seem to understand arithmetic means. Also, if you include McNabb's rookie year (60 rating), which is an even larger outlier, his rating is still over 92. Brad Johnson has less Yds and TD's in his 17 year career than McNabb in his 11 and McNabb's rating is 10 pts higher.. And, if you want to talk about outliers, take out Johnson's only 2 good seasons and his numbers are putrid. We haven't even included rushing yards and TD's into the equation nor TD-INT ratio where DM is 2-1 and BJ is 1.3-1. Neither Chandler or Gannon were comparable over their careers and if you don't understand that then you have made your decision despite all evidence to the contrary. If you are talking HOF QB's he is not in the upper tier no one will dispute that, franchise QB's not in the HOF, he is certainly up there. And, many think he will make that eventually. When was the last time the Skins had a QB that could even be in the HOF discussion at the end of their career.....your hating has made you blind

[Ryman of the North]

The 104 only moves the average up 2 points, you don't seem to understand arithmetic means. Also, if you include McNabb's rookie year (60 rating), which is an even larger outlier, his rating is still over 92. Brad Johnson has less Yds and TD's in his 17 year career than McNabb in his 11 and McNabb's rating is 10 pts higher.. And, if you want to talk about outliers, take out Johnson's only 2 good seasons and his numbers are putrid. We haven't even included rushing yards and TD's into the equation nor TD-INT ratio where DM is 2-1 and BJ is 1.3-1. Neither Chandler or Gannon were comparable over their careers and if you don't understand that then you have made your decision despite all evidence to the contrary. If you are talking HOF QB's he is not in the upper tier no one will dispute that, franchise QB's not in the HOF, he is certainly up there. And, many think he will make that eventually. When was the last time the Skins had a QB that could even be in the HOF discussion at the end of their career.....your hating has made you blind

LOL I am well aware of what math means, Mcrapps numbers are not those of a franchise QB lol @ your comments about Johnson... take out Mcrapps 2 best seasons and you have a guy is about on par with guys like aaron brooks. even with them he is not exactly a world beater. his record for wins and losses speaks to the talent read had to work with, and frankly I dont blame mcrapps Wrs for his lack of production in an offence that let him throw 65% OF THE TIME.

Mcrapp was a starter his entore career, neither Chandler nor gannon were. A franchise QB is one who doesnt need a system to excel or who excels so much in a system that noone can argue that he was a system qb (like montana) There is no evidence to the contrary, people here keep comparing Mcrapp to Favre and Manning but its not even remotely close.

[Bucaro]

LOL I am well aware of what math means, Mcrapps numbers are not those of a franchise QB lol @ your comments about Johnson... take out Mcrapps 2 best seasons and you have a guy is about on par with guys like aaron brooks. even with them he is not exactly a world beater. his record for wins and losses speaks to the talent read had to work with, and frankly I dont blame mcrapps Wrs for his lack of production in an offence that let him throw 65% OF THE TIME.

Mcrapp was a starter his entore career, neither Chandler nor gannon were. A franchise QB is one who doesnt need a system to excel or who excels so much in a system that noone can argue that he was a system qb (like montana) There is no evidence to the contrary, people here keep comparing Mcrapp to Favre and Manning but its not even remotely close.

McNabb is not Favre or Manning, those are first ballot guys. We don't know if DM is a system guy because he has only been in one system, much like Montana who was regarded as one of if not the best ever.

DM Career Averages - 3000 yds, 22 tds (rush+pass), 13 TO's, 86.5 rating

DM Career Ave (- 2 best seasons) - 2786 yds, 21 tds, 12.7 TO's, 85 rating

Your point about "take out his best two years" was dead wrong.

Those numbers aren't much different and 1000x better than Aaron Brooks (1 season with +81 rating and TD-TO ratio barely over 1, bad comp % but he did put up yards a couple of years) and better than almost all if not all other QB for their careers (5+ years starting) in recent memory not headed to the HOF. A Franchise QB by definition is one who starts for a long period of time with success that the team builds their personel around, regardless of whether YOU BELIEVE they are a system QB or not. If a QB plays in the same system most or all of their career no one can possibly know wehther or not they are a "system QB" or not, then it is all opinion of which yours holds no value. Great QB's in one system their career: Manning, Favre, Brady, Montana, Marino, Young, and pretty much 90% of QB's prior to the 80's. By the way, arithmetic mean is the proper term for average everyone knows what "math means"

[Spade]

check and mate.

[Ryman of the North]

McNabb is not Favre or Manning, those are first ballot guys. We don't know if DM is a system guy because he has only been in one system, much like Montana who was regarded as one of if not the best ever.

DM Career Averages - 3000 yds, 22 tds (rush+pass), 13 TO's, 86.5 rating

DM Career Ave (- 2 best seasons) - 2786 yds, 21 tds, 12.7 TO's, 85 rating

Your point about "take out his best two years" was dead wrong.

Those numbers aren't much different and 1000x better than Aaron Brooks (1 season with +81 rating and TD-TO ratio barely over 1, bad comp % but he did put up yards a couple of years) and better than almost all if not all other QB for their careers (5+ years starting) in recent memory not headed to the HOF. A Franchise QB by definition is one who starts for a long period of time with success that the team builds their personel around, regardless of whether YOU BELIEVE they are a system QB or not. If a QB plays in the same system most or all of their career no one can possibly know wehther or not they are a "system QB" or not, then it is all opinion of which yours holds no value. Great QB's in one system their career: Manning, Favre, Brady, Montana, Marino, Young, and pretty much 90% of QB's prior to the 80's. By the way, arithmetic mean is the proper term for average everyone knows what "math means"

when I talk numbers I am talking about all his numbers to make a point, Mcrapps numbers were not that much better than a guy like Brooks who will never get HOF mention, thats the point. People keep comparing Mcrapp to manning and favre even if you arent hes closer to a guy like brooks than a guy like manning.

we are defining franchise qb very differently, I define it as a qb who is talented enough to rest the fortunes of the franchise on him and who does something when they do. btw I beg to differ when you take away mcrapps two best seasons he drops to an 85 qb rating, in other words journeyman WHICH WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT. In other words, JASON CAMPBELL with a few probowls..

so keep patting yourself on the back, you lost this debate because its not a debate, Mcrapp is not a franchise qb and never has been aside from 2004.

[Warhead36]

We've had quite a few "old guys" win championships all across sports. Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant won NBA titles in their 30s. The Yankees are filled with nothing but 30+ guys it seems like. The Saints are led by Drew Brees who is in his 30s as well. Maybe McNabb will be our "cagey vet".

[TANAMAN]

Are you really comparing McNabb to QB's such as Aaron Brooks and JC, really?

McNabb has averaged starting 13.5 games per season since his rookie year. I took his rookie year out when calculating his avg games started because he only started 6 games that year and it wasn't due to injury.

If you take his average ypg, touchdown passes per game, and interceptions per game and estimate that he'll play only another 5 years at his avg. of 13.5 games per year his career stats would come out to:

48,510 yds.

315 tds. passing only

147 ints.

That would put him in one hell of a class. Here's John Elway's career stats.

51,475 yds.

300 tds. passing only

226 ints.

So McNabb would be only 2,965 yards behind Elway while having 15 more TDs and 79 fewer ints. And before you go and say but McNabb threw the ball 65% of the time and Elway didn't, McNabb has averaged 33 passes per game over his career and Elway averaged 31 so the discrepency isn't very big at all. So yeah that sounds just like an Aaron Brooks type of QB. Not to mention that his team has averaged 25 ppg. with a 96-51 record in games he's started while going to 5 NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl.

If McNabb continues playing at the level he has been, he's very likely to be in the HOF just off stats alone, maybe not 1st ballot but eventually he'll be in. If he wins a Super Bowl he's in the HOF period. The same cannot be said for the QB's you named. Look I hated McNabb a few months ago just like everyone else, but not because he was a bad QB, because he was an Eagle. Just Like I hate Homo and ShEli, but to argue that the guy isn't a franchise QB is insane.

[martytheman]

Are you really comparing McNabb to QB's such as Aaron Brooks and JC, really?

McNabb has averaged starting 13.5 games per season since his rookie year. I took his rookie year out when calculating his avg games started because he only started 6 games that year and it wasn't due to injury.

If you take his average ypg, touchdown passes per game, and interceptions per game and estimate that he'll play only another 5 years at his avg. of 13.5 games per year his career stats would come out to:

48,510 yds.

315 tds. passing only

147 ints.

That would put him in one hell of a class. Here's John Elway's career stats.

51,475 yds.

300 tds. passing only

226 ints.

So McNabb would be only 2,965 yards behind Elway while having 15 more TDs and 79 fewer ints. And before you go and say but McNabb threw the ball 65% of the time and Elway didn't, McNabb has averaged 33 passes per game over his career and Elway averaged 31 so the discrepency isn't very big at all. So yeah that sounds just like an Aaron Brooks type of QB. Not to mention that his team has averaged 25 ppg. with a 96-51 record in games he's started while going to 5 NFC Championship games and 1 Super Bowl.

If McNabb continues playing at the level he has been, he's very likely to be in the HOF just off stats alone, maybe not 1st ballot but eventually he'll be in. If he wins a Super Bowl he's in the HOF period. The same cannot be said for the QB's you named. Look I hated McNabb a few months ago just like everyone else, but not because he was a bad QB, because he was an Eagle. Just Like I hate Homo and ShEli, but to argue that the guy isn't a franchise QB is insane.

/Thread.

[Peregrine]

Out of curiosity... How many did so just after being traded to a 4-12 team?

[cphil006]

new coach and new offense...

It's going to take us about 16 games to get into Super Bowl shape.

[letzgoterps]

So many McNabb haters. What a bunch of fools.

[AllAboutTheU]

McNabb's age is no concern to me at all. 33 is relatively young considering what some QBs are doing these days. Warner and Favre are two of the best and they bolth have AARP membership lol. Peyton is 34, Brees is around the same age is Donovan.

A QB can play at a SB caliber level well into his late 30s and its been proven in the NFL for years.

[The Tris]

when I talk numbers I am talking about all his numbers to make a point, Mcrapps numbers were not that much better than a guy like Brooks who will never get HOF mention, thats the point. People keep comparing Mcrapp to manning and favre even if you arent hes closer to a guy like brooks than a guy like manning.

we are defining franchise qb very differently, I define it as a qb who is talented enough to rest the fortunes of the franchise on him and who does something when they do. btw I beg to differ when you take away mcrapps two best seasons he drops to an 85 qb rating, in other words journeyman WHICH WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT. In other words, JASON CAMPBELL with a few probowls..

so keep patting yourself on the back, you lost this debate because its not a debate, Mcrapp is not a franchise qb and never has been aside from 2004.

You should check out the "Donovan McNabb is Not the Answer" Thread, there is a lot of good discussion about how McNabb's career stacks up. I posted these stats comparing Elway and McNabb here. Here is a brief summary:

In 12 years before Shanahan, Elway threw for 37,736 yards and 199 TDs. An average of 3,144 yds and 16.5 TDs per year.

In McNabb's 11 seasons in Philly, he threw for 32,873 yards and 216 TDs. An average of 2,988 yds and 19.6 TDs per year.

Playoff records in those times: Elway 7-6, McNabb 9-7. Obviously neither won a Super Bowl.

And while you might think, "Well, McNabb played in a more pass happy era"...McNabb average 431 attempts per year over that span, while Elway averaged 448.

Elway's averages jumped to 3,434 yards per year and 25 TDs per year with Shanahan, and he was 7-1 with two Super Bowls in the playoffs. He was 34 when Shanahan took over the Broncos. McNabb is currently 33.

The point being, McNabb's numbers compare very favorably to Elway at this stage in his career, and he is hardly a journeyman QB.

[Ryman of the North]

You should check out the "Donovan McNabb is Not the Answer" Thread, there is a lot of good discussion about how McNabb's career stacks up. I posted these stats comparing Elway and McNabb here. Here is a brief summary:

The point being, McNabb's numbers compare very favorably to Elway at this stage in his career, and he is hardly a journeyman QB.

LMAO Elway never had the sort of talent that Mcnabb had with him until very late in his career, He did however have a solid WR and TE and a [retty good LT most of his years. the Broncos only had one very good team pre shannahan and that was in 87 and even then they werent the best team in the afc just a team that got a lot of breaks and very good qab play from Elway. Elway also didnt play on a team that threw 65% of the time nor was it a west coast dink and dunk stats friendly system. The fact is that Mcrapp is not a franchise player who was able to dominate games on his own other than 2004. Yeah he threw a lot of Tds when you throw 65% the time and even in the red zone, that will happen.

if we are going to compare apples to apples, AT THIS STAGE IN HIS CAREER, Elway had a HOF TE (who really was more of a wideout) a HOF wideout, an Oline with several probowlers and and Oline guru coach to go with a guy who would have been HOF at RB had he not gotten hurt. None of which we have here other than perhaps Portis. How exactly do those things compare? The broncos D was solid but not spectacular much like ours even though we probably have more talent in our best players they had more depth. by the end of this season Mcrapp will either prove me right and get injured while p[utting up poor stats or he will stay healthy and put up decent stats but I doubt we will see and elway or favresque performances from him.

Its ok to be optimistic but people need to give their heads a shake when making these grandiose comparisons especially when they tailor stats to make their points ala the one guy who removed Mcrapps rookie year but not elways? lol gimme a break.

[The Tris]

LMAO Elway never had the sort of talent that Mcnabb had with him until very late in his career

McNabb has had talent around him his whole career? Outside of 2009 and a year and a half of TO, the knock on the Eagles has always been they were woefully lacking offensive play makers.

Charles Johnson, Torrence Small, Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, FredEx, Chad Lewis, LJ Smith, Reggie Brown, Hank Baskett, Kevin Curtis...this is the talent that McNabb has had for the majority of his career.

Elway also didnt play on a team that threw 65% of the time

Elway averaged more pass attempts per season in the first 12 years of his career than McNabb has in his first 11.

nor was it a west coast dink and dunk stats friendly system.

Elway: 7.1 yards/attempt, McNabb: 6.9 yards/attempt

The fact is that Mcrapp is not a franchise player who was able to dominate games on his own other than 2004. Yeah he threw a lot of Tds when you throw 65% the time and even in the red zone, that will happen.

I just don't see how two players with nearly identical career stats can be so wildly different in your mind...One is a franchise player, the other is a journeyman.

I guess Elway was only throwing 40+ yard TDs, Elway was dominating games en route to a 7-6 playoff record, Elway's yardage was all compiled in last second wins, and was the only player worth anything on his teams.

Meanwhile, McNabb got all his TDs from inside the 10, he had nothing to do with the 9 playoff wins, but everything to do with the 7 losses, all his yardage was compiled in garbage time, and he has been surrounded by HOF TEs, Pro-Bowl WRs, and a fantastic OL.

(BTW...McCrapp, McPOS, etc...cute way to show that you are completely set in your agenda and have little reason to objectively look at the numbers.)

if we are going to compare apples to apples, AT THIS STAGE IN HIS CAREER, Elway had a HOF TE (who really was more of a wideout) a HOF wideout, an Oline with several probowlers and and Oline guru coach to go with a guy who would have been HOF at RB had he not gotten hurt. None of which we have here other than perhaps Portis.

So Elway had Shape at TE, who was a major asset for him...McNabb won't be able to succeed without a HOF TE?

I'm not quite sure who the HOF wide WR was that Elway had between 1995-1998.

Going into the 1995 season, Elway had an aging HOFer at LT, and that was it. Schlereth was an incoming FA and Nalen was a rookie who hadn't ever started a game. In retrospect, a fantastic line, but far from a finished product. Just like our line, a work in progress.

Would have been nice to get Alex Gibbs on this staff, but I think Kyle Shanahan is a bit of a guru himself.

And Terrell Davis was far from a sure thing at running back coming into the season...he was camp fodder when he was initially drafted but blew the coaches away in preseason and was named the surprise starter. I highly doubt we have a TD on the roster right now, but you can't dismiss the possibility.

The point is, I don't understand why you are so confidently dismissing this team and McNabb. It's far from a finished product, but to make these claims as if they were gospel is a little melodramatic.

Just tone down the bias for a second and look at the numbers objectively. If you can't admit that McNabb and Elway are eerily similar at this point in their careers, there's no point in continuing, and you can go back to whining about the 3-4.

[Spade]

LMAO Elway never had the sort of talent that Mcnabb had with him until very late in his career

Good for you, don't let a whole bunch of facts stating the complete opposite of what your saying change your opinion, this is America, Go Skins! :dallasuck

[Outlaw Torn]

LMAO Elway never had the sort of talent that Mcnabb had with him until very late in his career

Wow just wow.

Its ok to be optimistic but people need to give their heads a shake when making these grandiose comparisons especially when they tailor stats to make their points ala the one guy who removed Mcrapps rookie year but not elways? lol gimme a break.

Its ok to be pessimistic but you need to give your head a shake when making these asinine comments especially when people show you stats and you still stay in denial a la that guy who showed you a bunch of stats that you obviously did not comprehend. lol gimmie a break.

[wpenn1]

Of all qb's why are you comparing McNabb to Aaron Brooks. I see no similarities in the two careers.

[CM916]

It took me about three days to get over the Eagle thing but since then Ive been completely on board with McNabb. I think it was Cooley's comments after one weekend of practice that really put me over the top. I still expect him to miss two or three games though, seems like he does that every year so the next guy in line will be key for our season.

[Ryman of the North]

McNabb has had talent around him his whole career? Outside of 2009 and a year and a half of TO, the knock on the Eagles has always been they were woefully lacking offensive play makers.

Charles Johnson, Torrence Small, Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, FredEx, Chad Lewis, LJ Smith, Reggie Brown, Hank Baskett, Kevin Curtis...this is the talent that McNabb has had for the majority of his career.

Elway averaged more pass attempts per season in the first 12 years of his career than McNabb has in his first 11.

Elway: 7.1 yards/attempt, McNabb: 6.9 yards/attempt

I just don't see how two players with nearly identical career stats can be so wildly different in your mind...One is a franchise player, the other is a journeyman.

I guess Elway was only throwing 40+ yard TDs, Elway was dominating games en route to a 7-6 playoff record, Elway's yardage was all compiled in last second wins, and was the only player worth anything on his teams.

Meanwhile, McNabb got all his TDs from inside the 10, he had nothing to do with the 9 playoff wins, but everything to do with the 7 losses, all his yardage was compiled in garbage time, and he has been surrounded by HOF TEs, Pro-Bowl WRs, and a fantastic OL.

(BTW...McCrapp, McPOS, etc...cute way to show that you are completely set in your agenda and have little reason to objectively look at the numbers.)

So Elway had Shape at TE, who was a major asset for him...McNabb won't be able to succeed without a HOF TE?

I'm not quite sure who the HOF wide WR was that Elway had between 1995-1998.

Going into the 1995 season, Elway had an aging HOFer at LT, and that was it. Schlereth was an incoming FA and Nalen was a rookie who hadn't ever started a game. In retrospect, a fantastic line, but far from a finished product. Just like our line, a work in progress.

Would have been nice to get Alex Gibbs on this staff, but I think Kyle Shanahan is a bit of a guru himself.

And Terrell Davis was far from a sure thing at running back coming into the season...he was camp fodder when he was initially drafted but blew the coaches away in preseason and was named the surprise starter. I highly doubt we have a TD on the roster right now, but you can't dismiss the possibility.

The point is, I don't understand why you are so confidently dismissing this team and McNabb. It's far from a finished product, but to make these claims as if they were gospel is a little melodramatic.

Just tone down the bias for a second and look at the numbers objectively. If you can't admit that McNabb and Elway are eerily similar at this point in their careers, there's no point in continuing, and you can go back to whining about the 3-4.

Mcnabb has had solid to very good Olines, very good running backs and decent Te's, his entire career he has lacked Wr's who were more than decent though I will grant that.

Elway had more pass attempts because his offences were more effective and moved the ball and got more first downs thus had more attempts. I am pretty certain that if you break down Mcrapps percentage of pass attempts against total plays run vs Elways that Elway threw the ball less percentage wise.

The HOF wideout was Rod smith and Elway had him from 94-98

[Ryman of the North]

Wow just wow.

Its ok to be pessimistic but you need to give your head a shake when making these asinine comments especially when people show you stats and you still stay in denial a la that guy who showed you a bunch of stats that you obviously did not comprehend. lol gimmie a break.

the stats people have shown me are stats that have been reworked to show their POV, if you knew anything about football youd know that stats can be made to say anything if used right.

[RenegadeTK]

people overestimate the whole age thing with DM5. once he starts showing signs of age, then i will start worrying.

[bigricky3469]

How old was Doug Williams