emister1 Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 We are all in denial....face it people. It won't be no magic dust sprinkled on this team and they start kicking some Arse anytime soon. From my outlook, Marty may have a track record of winning from the years past, but this is a new time and era. Marty has alot of work to do, and the most part is getting these players to believe in his system. Furthermore, for the players to beleive in his family of coaches he has brought in. Hey guys, get over the Joe Gibbs years. That's dead and stinky. I know we all loved the glory years and wish for the life of us it would somehow re-appear...(news flash).."it won't be this year." If in four pre-season games your players don't have no continuity, they are going to enter the season not beleiving in the system. From my observation, that's what I saw last night. Some of those guys didn't even give a full effort(err..). Jeff George was taking hits and getting bum rushed like a mad fire had broken out somewhere. Furthermore, from some of the posts I've read below. Yes! Marty should have had some better protection to protect George's blind side. You don't let your QB get creamed like that in a pre-season game play after play. Especially when you know they are going to continue blitzing you cause your guys can't stop it. Look, the Redskins offensive line are and will be marked men if we don't find a solution real soon. Everybody's going to start throwing the kitchen sink at us, and I can't think of one pre-season game we played that the other teams coach didn't know to blitz our arse, again, again and again. I don't know, maybe Marty's all school coaching need a little fine tuning, and if the players go into the regular season looking like the deer eyes caught in the head lights. Then I think we are going to see another season of Norval(turner)itis all over again. Good Luck....I will still love the team, but was it only me that thought the first team unit looked a little confused the first half. Did some of the players look like they wasn't buying into marty's system? Even the players stated they were glad the pre-season was over and they're ready for the regular season. But I tell you what! if they get creamed against San Diego like they have been through out the pre-season. You can forget the players gaining some confidence in what Marty's and his coaching staff is trying to do. Those players I saw last night will not give a rats arse. They will start giving up and looking like a Cincy team we see year after year. Don't get me wrong, for some reason I have a gut feeling the team will start coming around. But, after suffering 7 grueling years watching Norv TurnerI thought his teams would one day do the same. (Another news flash...)It never materialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPSkins Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 emister, tie the noose now and throw it over the bathroom curtain rod, because this team will never kick anyone's arse. Not this year anyway. We wont be winning games 40-0 or losing them that way either. There will be growing pains and to expect anything less is denial. I don't think anyone here is saying the Redkins are a juggernaut and no one is so naive to think we are on our way to the playoffs and Super Bowl. If this team does start poorly and you and others like you jump off the ship, I say good riddance and more gruel for the rest of us. But to say some of the things you say only portrays you as a fair-weather fan who can go shopping with your wife/girlfriend come sunday for all I care. Marty needs a chance and some time. Rome wasn't built in a day or a week or a year. To expect a drastic turn around from the Norv years is just plain dumb. And I have seen nobody here claiming we will be anything but moderately sucessful. Claiming Marty is in a new era, is just plain Bunk, gee he's been out of coaching for all of three years. He spent that time analizing Football from the booth. Do you think he learned nothing from that experience? Give the team a chance, give them a few regular season games before you make these assumptions. Saying the Redskins will bail on Marty "just because" they did on Norv is also BS becasue half of these guys weren't even here. Take a pill relax and be POSITIVE. And by the way <IMG SRC="http://www.texaspitts.com/bartxxx.gif" border=0> ------------------ <IMG SRC="http://www.texaspitts.com/nakedskins.gif" border=0> [ by MarkPSkins on August 31, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Fans are way too impatient. I have noted the shortcomings I observed in what Marty did in terms of protection, etc. against NE. But overall, in a retooling scheme as vast as the one Marty has pulled off since February who realistically thought the team would look like worldbeaters this early? The facts are plain. The team left over from last season was the oldest team in the NFL. It was overbloated and dispirited after a poor finish. Many of the players were past their primes and were still counting for a lot of money against the salary cap. Other teams such as Baltimore, Tennessee, Philly and Tampa were younger and better. And the Redskins were unlikely to make a quantum leap UP the ladder in 2001 by bringing back a lot of those players. So, instead we have gone back to basics and taken our core 10-12 players under 30 and are attempting to build a team around them. That is going to take some time. We added Gardner and Smoot and both will likely start. Carter was a good find as a backup RB. Lockett is a fine #3 receiver. There are other examples. But you can't plug all the holes at once. Not starting from where Marty was with the restriction of dollars that was imposed. The largesse of 2000 guaranteed that 2001 was going to be a lean year if the gambit was not successful and it wasn't. So, now after 4 preseason games everyone is down on Marty. I can't think of any coaches outside of ones that were handed Super Bowl championship teams such as Seifert and Switzer who came right in and were successful out of the gate. You might say that going back and seeing the 5 years it took Landry to make the playoffs with the Cowboys or the 3 years it took the 49ers under Walsh to do the same is now too much time in the era of free agency. But look at the successful coaches. Holmgren won in Green Bay after how many years on the job? 4. Vermeil won in St. Louis after 3 years. Fisher made the Super Bowl with Tennessee after how many years? Fassel has been coach of the Giants since 1996. Of those with shorter terms, even Billick and Shanahan took at least 2 years to get their teams over the hump. And Shanahan inherited perhaps the best QB in NFL history in John Elway. Billick inherited an entire defense with coordinator Marvin Lewis intact and ready to go. Marty inherited some talented players, but they are sprinkled around the team and are very young. Samuels and Arrington are still nowhere near fulfilling their potential. Neither is Barber at this point. Alexander is still a work in progress. Bailey, Jansen and Davis are ready to contribute now without reservations. But in the NFL you need 10-12 core players ALL at that level to be an elite team. Right now, the Skins are still waiting on Samuels, Arrington, Alexander, Barber, and now Gardner and Smoot to live up to those expectations. If those players join Bailey, Jansen and Davis then the Redskins will be a very good football team over time. But for 2001? That's probably rushing the hen into laying all her eggs at one time. Not likely to happen. My guess is we see improvements in all those players in 2001 and start to develop the supporting cast they will need to be successful. It is a good bet that SOME of those complementary players are here now but are rookie free agents or draft picks unfamiliar with the NFL and just getting started as well. The rest will need to be acquired in the 2002 draft and free agency period next February. what is becoming painfully obvious to Marty is that most if not all the Norv holdovers outside of the top players at each position are not of NFL quality. To squeeze the Deions and Carries in under the cap it meant having no bench to speak of, no backups or prospects to come in and fill the void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Emeister, I have to ask you a question. Since Marty coached in the league two years ago and last had a 13-3 team THREE years ago, when precisely did this new and different time happen. The last two years changed football for all time, is that right? The people who are in full blown panic mode are disturbing. How many games do you think the Redskins will run four times in either the first or second half? You think this is what we'll see during the year? You think the Redskins will send the tight end out to on patterns if the edges are soft? You think the fullback or halfback will be sent on flairs if the middle is weak? Marty hasn't put together the winning record he has by being a fool. The Redskins have never even looked at New England game film. They didn't care about New England. They cared about putting the team in base packages and seeing what shook loose. There were breakdowns in communication. There were problems with assignments. Marty will have to correct these problems. And the Redskins HAVE the ability and talent on the roster to produce a nice year. Say what you want, but the Redskins have potentially two Pro Bowl players on that offensive line. They do have a Pro Bowl player at tight end. They have a 4000-yard passer and 1300-yard rusher and 1100-yard receiver. Is the middle of the line weak right now, with the wild shuffling we've seen and lack of communication? Yes. But, do we think Raymer, who was fine two years ago, suddenly forgot how to block? Coleman and Campbell have been good pros and Szott is a smooth, highly skilled player who should help us, despite being on the downside. The line will ultimately be fine. Probably not tomorrow though. This team has enough individual talent that the question before it is not whether that talent can win games, but rather can that talent gell quickly enough to show it can win the games it certainly can. It's acceptable to be worried. Marty isn't very worried and that's acceptable too. Marty probably has a handle on what he is trying to accomplish. What we've seen has at times been very ugly. That will probably be the case for the whole season. But, you don't produce what Marty has produced by not correcting issues and getting your teams to perform. I think we are all still thinking about Norv. Marty's earned the benefit of the doubt. Doubt is there for us all, I'm sure. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emister1 Posted August 31, 2001 Author Share Posted August 31, 2001 Hey Mark (my word), In no shape or form am I a fair weathered fan. I was born and raised in the D.C/Maryland area and will die with these Skins. I currently live in Texas and have year after year sat in sports bars cheering the skins on soul heartedly. Regardless of the factor that Norv stunk. I have been ridicule, laughed at and belittled after games against the (Cowgirls). Thinking this time it's going to be diffrent. I never give up on my beloved skins and question your loyalty as I type. Regardless of what have happen over the past seven years, I still stand (TALL) here in the midst of Texas and state "I live and die by sword, and with that, I also die a Redskins). But news flash little one...I know talent within a football team when I see it. I can sense win a team will be good, Bad, or even fair old chum, and within the depths of me, I hate to say that my beloved football team "sucks" here in the state of Texas. Old saying that will stick with me until the end of time is..(Until you do better, you know no better.)and until this team proves me wrong that they can do and play better. They be no better...and you can take that to the bank and cash it. Until these guys start playing with some (pride) and I mean Redskin (pride), the willingness to represent to the fullest has no meaning. Joe Gibbs teams plyed with pride, confidence, passion and to never gave up under any circumstances. Joe Gibbs/Richie Petibon teams/defenses used to kick arse and take names. Even George allens teams used to due the same, But for you to think that these players were playing that kind of football during pre-season or the Norv years you are madly mistaken. I know this is only pre-season and Norv is gone. But we still have some players left from that era and this team still doesn't have the mind frame of being a winner and playing all out. face it..we stink..and until they prove me/us otherwise, I will continue to say we stink and stand loud and proud to say I am a Redskin fan. see yaaaaa......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 emister, the fact is Gibbs started out 0-5 and quite frankly his team was a cluster f*** until November of that first season in 1981 when he basically threw out the offense he had installed and went with a new formula. If you remember Theismann was throwing interceptions and the line featuring 3 new starters in Grimm, Jacoby and Bostic was being overwhelmed in pass protection. Once the team started to run the ball and throw more high percentage passes, the wins started coming although the team did finish just 8-8 that first year. In the process we learned about a lot of players on our team. We learned that Perry Brooks was not the answer at DT. We learned that we needed help at cornerback which was addressed with the acquisition of Jeris White from Tampa. And we learned we needed a better and mor consistent rush from our ends. It's so funny that people bring up how great the arrival of past coaches was and how everyone was so enamored. That's the myth. I remember sitting in RFK when the 49ers came in in 1981 and sacked the Redskins 30-17 and fans were booing and the media was all over the coaching staff in the papers the day afterward. At that time, it didn't look like Gibbs would be back for a second season. So, whatever else we say, let's keep it real. Any coach deserves more than 4 preseason games to turn around a team with 40% turnover and a cap crunch initiated by his predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Gotta toss in with Art on this one. Too many good players for team to be a flop like we saw in pre-season. It's funny, but the team last year was in almost exactly the opposite situation where everyone had high expectations and was gunning for them. We lost Tre Johnson and Michael Westbrook early and still got off to a pretty good early season. It could have been a great season given a few special teams plays and better coaching (a la not pulling Davis in the Detroit game.) This year we have Westbrook back, George at QB, and Coleman at guard. Are we of the opinion that Jay Lewenburg and the injured Keith Sims were THAT much better than the current cast that the Skins are DOOMED this year? Larry Centers was a great receiver, but this year Steven Davis will pick up that role. Is that really a big drop off? Is Kennard Lang really that big of a drop off from Dana Bubblebutt? A castrated Mark Carrier was that much better than Lyle or Terrell? Finally, was Deion Sanders THAT much better than Darrell Green or Smooty? Special teams are much better this year too. This is a 9-7 season probably. ------------------ 1992 fantasy commercial: Dale Hunter seated in Skins uniform # 58 slapping a football deliberately between each hand ... looks to his left and remarks "Thanks, Wilbur"... cut to shot of powerful dark skinned hands holding a hockey stick in front of his new Caps uniform..."no, thank YOU Dale." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPSkins Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 emister1, you are by definition and a small picture insert in the Webster's dictionary a fair-weather fan. The weather is not so nice right now, a little cloudy with some sprinkles and you have already proclaimed "the Redskins suck". All this based upon some incohesive efforts in pre-season. Your idol in Joe Gibbs always had poor performing pre-season teams because he did essentially what Marty is doing now. TRYING TO FIGURE STUFF OUT. Gibbs neck was close to the hanging tree about a month into his first season and I'm sure you were the one holding the rope. I too live in Texas (Dallas) and grew up in the DC area, I knew you, well not you as the person, but you as the "fan". You were the one sporting all of your Skins gear and boasting your team with pride during the good times, yet hiding in the shadows and shreading the Redskins to all who would listen in the down times. You'll be the first to boast about how you were so right when and if the Redskins fall throwing out all the "I told you so"s and "didn't I tell you"s. But you will never admit that you were wrong when and if the Redskins do succeed. You will simply pull your dust collected Skins stuff out of the closet and join the line to Tony K's Bandwagon. Ah, yes, my little friend, my standing tall philospher, I know you well. To say that you have a great sense of a football team being bad must have you playing the lottery with regularity, or betting the farm on the Cowboys when the Skins play them. I wish I could see the same stuff you do then I would not bother to watch the games. However you cannot look at the talent of this team and honestly, convincingly, and assurdly say this team sucks. The real truth is you DON'T KNOW and could not POSSIBLY KNOW how this team will play this year. You choose to take the easy out and say they will suck because if you are right you can tell all your Cowboy fan buddies how you knew they would suck and it wont be quite as embarrasing, but if the opposite is true you wont have to say anything and no one will point out to you that you said the Redskins would suck because they don't want to hear about the Redskins AT ALL. Choosing to admit you are a Skins fan in enemy territory is all well and good but to disguise your affliation by agreeing with Cowboy fans that the Redskins suck is no better than turning you back entirely. You obviously wont enjoy a season of growing so just come back when we are in the Playoffs, whether it be this year, next year or the year after and join in on the praise and glory and hope no one remembers what you said before. ------------------ <IMG SRC="http://www.texaspitts.com/nakedskins.gif" border=0> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 I was just thinking in terms of how far we've come. Marty inherited: A team that finished 8-8, because they'd quit trying. The worst (or 2nd) salary cap in the league 4 draft picks Now we get to see what he can do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 If it is said that a draft cannot be fully evaluated until 3 years afterward, I find it hard to believe that a coach can be evaluated on 4 months worth of work. And by the way, Reagan. We DON'T have Coleman and Campbell at guard at the moment, and therein lies the rub. Coleman is hurt and that put Matt at LT. We were then forced to sign Szott to fill the other guard spot. So, despite the plans of July, the realities of injuries and the like have forced some changes from what was anticipated. Coleman might not play much this season. But in any event I think that Samuels, Raymer, Jansen, Szott and Campbell is a unit that will prove to be a good line over time for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Sounds like emister is going to be like the fair weather fan in Major League II who has selective amnesia after the wins start rolling in and the key player(s) bring it. ------------------ Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 yep, getting in front of the bandwagon last year and proclaiming 14-2 and then getting in front of the hearse this year and proclaiming that God is Dead and the Redskins are 4-12. hasn't the experience of parity in the NFL shown us anything except that most teams finish in the 7-9 to 10-6 bracket these days. only the barking dogs are 3-13 or 4-12. just insert 'dallas' wherever barking dogs are referenced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emister1 Posted August 31, 2001 Author Share Posted August 31, 2001 Wrong my little friends......I will be her in the face of countless, obnoxious, out of control Cowboy fans rooting for the skins if the cheerleaders had to play on the offensive line. Okay , the skins stunk in pre-season. Call it what it is, pre-season. Reply back to me after the Sandiego game. If the team looks the same after that outing...shut dup.. If they come out and kick some Sunny Cali Arse...Then throw me a bone and I will personally go bury it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 31, 2001 Share Posted August 31, 2001 Mr Harris? That you? ------------------ "Men, there's nothing to get excited about. The situation is normal; we are surrounded." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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