What Allen and Shanahan Have Taught Us

[Warpath11]

1.) Hiring a GM who's track record was pretty checkered in Tampa Bay. Allen's record in the draft is downright awful.

I agree with most every question you have but the one above I am not that worried about. I dont think Bruce Allen (with the Skins at least) is as heavily involved in player presonel matters. He is more of the football operations/administration/contract guy with a small say in player evaluation.

[4skins23]

Is it?

Clayton was a MONSTER his rookie year, and then the injury bug hit him, and hit him hard. Same with Carnell Williams. Davin Joseph has been a quality performer at guard. They gave up on Gaines Adams WAY too early, and then, of course, he died. They've found good starters in the 2nd through 4th round. I'd say their drafting was fairly average. At the end of the day too, they won division titles - and the NFC South has always been a strong division (A SB caliber Panthers team, a playoff-caliber Falcons team, the Saints post-Brees)

Umm. Who the blank is clayton? never heard of him. I like Cadilac. but he now seems to be a bust, had about 1-2 good years, not outstanding. If you think the NFC south is a strong division you are on crack. Saints were nothing without Brees. now yes they are champs. Falcons are a nobody team, a wash. Panthers were good about 5 years ago.

Haslett's defensive resume is not awful by any means. He looked awful in St. Louis - anyone would. But he had decent defenses in New Orleans without the benefit of a secondary. Keep in mind GW of all people had bottom 10 rankings in points allowed and yards allowed.

I agree that we shouldn't be transitioning to the 3-4 so quickly, though I disagree that it won't be better in the long run, and the fact is, the Ravens transitioned a championship-level defense from the 4-3 to a 3-4, and it worked out for them after some initial rough patches.

agreed.

I thought you supported the move? Our other options were essentially drafting a QB at #4 and a LT at #37, or drafting a LT at #4 and a QB at 37 when 2nd round QBs bust a lot.

Also, 33 in QB years is like 29-30 for other positions, barring injury. Does anybody really think Brady or Manning (all around the same age) will suddenly fall off a cliff? Warner looked washed up at SEVERAL points between, say, 2003 and 2007. Brett Favre, obviously.

Usually if a QB stays healthy, they don't start the decline until their late 30s.

I do expect Manning and Brady to fall dramatically soon. I hear Bulger is available?

yeah this was dumb.

Well, the problem is that we don't have the picks to go after a RB in the draft, period, and it's not like there were any young and cheap backs there. Maybe there will be in UDFA. But for NOW, taking a flier on former Pro Bowl backs in order to push Portis (because clearly he doesn't like Ganther or Aldridge, as much as we do) was his best option.

Seems to me its just more F.O. bonehead moves as before, going after big names.

Well, it's clear that they're not Pats/Colts/Ravens-style Moneyball guys, which is what I think we all want. I don't mind retooling to be competitive in 2008, especially since building a winning culture is so important. We also have the firepower to recoup our draft picks, and then some, but I'm worried that Shanahan might try to make a 2 TE set work with Cooley, or Andre Carter work as a OLB.

He will. That is his offense. He runs a 2 TE set.

If we're not stockpiling draft picks and running with the over the hill gang approach in 2012, THEN I'd be worried. Right now, we're using old spare parts because that's what we have available.

Do you really think Shanny will be around that long? I hope not. But then maybe I hope so, cuz maybe then that means he is doing something right. Time will tell.[/QUOTE]

[Mahons21]

I honestly don't see how anyone can look at our team and not see that we need to rebuild. We went 4-12 last year and lost to what, 6 winless teams in the process? We are/were awful and a huge part of the problem was the players.

a.) Players weren't put in a position to succeed. When you have Moss and ARE in the goalline formations with Kelly and Thomas sitting on the sideline something is wrong. When all you run is a stretch play, something is wrong.

b.) The offense was so predictable that defenses literally knew the exact play that was coming. Can you imagine the advantage a defense has if they know whether to play the pass or the run? If its a pass DE's can pin there ears back, DB's know to play the pass. If its a run the d-line can hold the point of attack and so on. Its not even fair.

[RandyHolt]

They taught us that loyalty to your bosses wishes, are priority one. It's Snyder's ship.

So its win now.

[Mahons21]

Umm. Who the blank is clayton? never heard of him. I like Cadilac. but he now seems to be a bust, had about 1-2 good years, not outstanding. If you think the NFC south is a strong division you are on crack. Saints were nothing without Brees. now yes they are champs. Falcons are a nobody team, a wash. Panthers were good about 5 years ago.

-NFC south isn't a strong division? Are you on crack? They have the superbowl winning Saints, who made a separate good run two years ago, the panthers are one year(not 5) from being a 13-3 team, with a new QB this year they'll have a great chance at making the playoffs. The Falcons made it to the playoffs with a rookie HC/QB and new RB, Ryan was injured a couple games last season and they still almost got back to the playoffs. The NFC south is legit, anyone should be able to recognize that.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Heh, both of you missed my point.

The NFC South has been strong this entire decade. The Vick Falcons were contenders every year, except for the one year he missed a season. The Panthers were SB contenders. The Saints had Brees for the last few years of Allen's tenure there.

The Bucs have been extraordinarily unlucky with their drafts. Two talented 1st rounders spend years struggling with injury? Another dies (granted while he wasn't on the time)? He's also found solid linemen like Trueblood and Sears.

Manning and Brady falling off? That's a laugh.

Tell me the last Pro Bowl/HOF QB to fall off a cliff other than due to injury? A quarterback isn't a running back - he's not reliant on his athleticism as long as he's smart and accurate, and even if the arm strength declines a bit, they should be able to compensate.

[Oldfan]

Tell me the last Pro Bowl/HOF QB to fall off a cliff other than due to injury? A quarterback isn't a running back - he's not reliant on his athleticism as long as he's smart and accurate, and even if the arm strength declines a bit, they should be able to compensate.

It sounds as if you have QBs stereotyped. McNabb's skillset is nothing like Manning's or Brady's. His strengths when young wasn't in his ability to sit in the pocket, make quick decisions, and throw darts to his receivers. He ran the ball; he extended plays; he spotted deep receivers; and he had good touch on his deep throws. Donovan would have failed miserably if he had been put into a disciplined scheme such as those that Brady and Manning run.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

And the ability to spot deep receivers and put good touch on the deep throws goes away with age the same way speed does...right.

It sounds like you have McNabb stereotyped - he stopped being a running QB, oh, 2004 or so.

Do you really think McNabb is less accurate than someone like Plummer? Or even Cutler?

[bird_1972]

And the ability to spot deep receivers and put good touch on the deep throws goes away with age the same way speed does...right.

Farve is similar to McNabb in this sense.