Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Some of you may not like to believe this, but before Gibbs retired, he had this team in great position to be one of the upper echelon teams. In fact, at the time of his retirement, the Washington Redskins WERE one of the best teams in the NFL. Not only that, but I feel very strongly that we would've made it to SuperBowl in Gibbs' final year if it were not for our horrible luck of the draw, having to face the damn Seahawks in that bull****, artificial-sound pumping stadium of theirs. We were still able to overcome "the 12th man," more the most part, and had that game won, until Chris Cooley (who has a track record of dropping game winning TDs-@ Cowboys in '07, for example) drops a 10-yard TD pass late in the 4th quarter, and Suisham finishing the drive (and our season) with a missed chip shot field goal [Note: the drive I am referring to is the one setup when Anthony "I'm So Tall" Mix recovered the kickoff at the Seahawks 10-yard line, although he got robbed of a TD, but I digress]. Yes, folks. Gibbs DID have this team on the right track. What other reasons do I have to believe this? Easy...all you have to do is look at the first half of '08. The main reason of our 6-2 start was that the team still had Gibbs' imprint all over it. Our offense was still the same Joe Gibbs offense, and after years of continuity and playing in the same offense (minus the half-season where Gibbs made the biggest screw up in his second stint here-hiring Al Saunders to run the offense). *Our offense and Clinton Portis, who was leading the league in rushing at that point, was just running over teams, with CP averaging 5 yards a carry.* *This is when the spark plug ignited our team's (continuing) downfall: FIRST YEAR Head Coach Jim Zorn's ****ing EGO. All we heard in the media was how this was still a Joe Gibbs style of offense, winning the Joe Gibbs way, and our offense being nicknamed "the mid-west coast offense." Zorn, @ 6-2 in his first year as a Head Coach, AND his first time being an Offensive Coordinator, as well as QB coach, let his ego get in the way of the team's overall success. He was also calling the offensive plays for the first time in his career as well. It is easily apparent that Zorn didn't appreciate all the credit that Gibbs was getting. Having a GREAT start to your Head Coaching career was appparently not enough. No. He wanted to make sure that everyone acknowledged what an offensive genius he is. So what does he do, he decides that it was a good idea to sign a washed up (but "WCO") RB in Shaun Alexander to help CP (averaging about 5 yards per carry at the time, mind you) transition into the WCO. With the Skins getting ready for their next game, a primetime, MNF game against the Steelers and their #1 ranked D, he must have figured what better time is their to change the offensive system of a team that was having no problem moving the ball downfield (although, admittedly, the redzone offense could've use some tweaking). But still, he basically forced the WCO on a team that was 6-2 and looking very good. Monday Night Football, Week 9 of the 2008 season. Steelers @ Skins (although with the crowd being 50-50 at best). The 6-2 Skins were playing their last game before their bye and the first game after Alexander's signing (damn you Seattle for releasing him!). As the game starts, we are playing great, tough, football, smashing the Steelers in the mouth. Looking as good as we have had all year. Facing the league's best rush defense, Clinton Portis(who everyone claims was "shut down" by the Steelers D), had one run early in the game (1st quarter) that went for 22 yards. Nothing to write home about, but it was pretty damn impressive, considering it was the longest run given up by the Steelers D. So far, so good. Same old Gibbs-style smashmouth offense. While on the other side of the ball, our D is playing lights out, getting to Roethlisberger and even getting turnovers. 'Los does his usual thang, dropping an INT that would've been a pick-six, teasing and frustrating the hell out of everyone again. D is looking great. Being a nationally televised, MNF game, with all of America watching, Zorn sees this as his time to "shine." So what does he do? Start running his "WCO," on a team that was 6-2 with a QB that had ZERO interceptions in the previously ran system, and a RB leading the leauge in rushing. The dumbest thing of it all was, "Mr.Hip Hip Hooray" Zorn's decision to pull this bull**** system switch stunt against the best defense in the league, not to even mention that had he waited a week, our team at least would've have two weeks to transition into his WCO-(WeakCrapOffense). Game goes on. CP gets injured, and the pressure on the mentally fragile JC to perform well on this newly installed offense gets even higher. Our defense gave up a TD, but the steelers had great field position (in the redzone, IIRC) thanks to a blocked punt. But they're still knocking mother****ers out of the game, literally (looking at you...Roethlisberger ).:-) Enter Skins killer (and hometown kid) Byron Leftwich, who actually plays MUCH better than Ben was at that time. The offense all of a sudden starts to look "different." The play calling, pass/run ratio, WR routes, etc. looks nothing like what the Skins were running in the first half of the year. Not only that, but the players (especially JC), don't look comfortable in the offensive play calls/system switch. Our offense starts struggling (not surprising against the #1 D in the league), and as the game goes on, things go from bad to worse, with players looking lost and confused, and a large part of it is because of the new system switch forced upon them. Seond half of the game. Roethlisberger is officially out for the game, which is actually BAD news for us, as Leftwich at that point, was having his way on our D (bringing back flashbacks to the Jags-Skins OT thriller a few years back). With the Steelers having gone up by mutliple scores, our offense is basically forced to abandon the run. After having all this extremely high praise from fans, the media (such as talks of mid-season MVP, all-pro level of play, and the "future"/"franchise QB" of the Skins), and with all of America watching, all the pressure was put on Jason "0-INT" Campbell to lead the Skins to a comeback victory. He not only is not able to mount any kind of decent attempt at a comeback, he also ends up throwing his first two picks of the year, gets sacked a total of 7 times, and posts a QB rating of 55.8, one of the worst he had all season. =============== Fast forward today: * The "franchise" QB we thought that we had is anything but, and mentally so fragile that no way he returns next year. Starting Todd Collins IS the best option this team has right now. [side note: to make matters worse, Brennan was put on IR, so now there is absolutely no way we can see what we have in him.] * "Horny for Zorny" now sounds like the corniest **** in the world. All that false hope and promise is now gone. I loved the moves he *immediately* made (i.e. Rabach-Campbell snapping the ball adjustment, QB coaching/techniques he taught Campbell, moving Moss back to the X receiver when Saunders idiotically had him playing the role of the more "possession" receiver...) * A combination of the two above: Having a "franchise" QB and a Head Coach that looked like to be a great hire...and both of them would've been "homegrown." * People actually insulting a man who was brought in to call the plays on offense, no matter what he was doing at the time the skins contacted him. *People actually preferring/thinking that sticking with the god-awful playcalling by Zorn (followed by him commenting in his presser about XX play: "Oh, yea, um....on that play right there...uh, dur...that play was almost a touchdown") *If Steve Largent was speaking on behalf of Zorn, its just more proof of how delusional he is. I think there is more on Sherman Lewis' resume than calling Bingo games. The sad part is that Zorn is probably not capable of calling bingo games, let alone football plays. "Maroon and Black" comes to mind. :doh: [from Redskins.com - "With Lewis directing the offense in 2000, the Vikings’ advanced to the NFC Championship Game with first-year starter Daunte Culpepper at quarterback. Culpepper was a Pro Bowl starter following the season after completing 297-of-494 passes for 3,937 yards and 33 touchdowns, for a passer rating of 98.0. In addition to a passing attack that featured Culpepper, Cris Carter and Randy Moss, Minnesota running back Robert Smith led the NFC in rushing in 2000 with 1,521 yards. Before Lewis’ stint with the Vikings, he was the Green Bay Packers’ offensive coordinator from 1992-1999, including their Super Bowl championship season of 1996. In his eight years in Green Bay, the Packers never had a losing season, made the playoffs six times, earned three NFC Central division titles, claimed two NFC championships and won Super Bowl XXXI. Seven different offensive players, including Brett Favre and Sterling Sharpe, made a combined 15 Pro Bowl appearances during Lewis’ tenure in Green Bay. Lewis began his NFL coaching career in San Francisco. As the 49ers’ running backs coach from 1983-88, Lewis tutored the likes of All-Pro Roger Craig and Tom Rathman. As a wide receivers coach from 1989-91, Lewis helped his pupils, Jerry Rice and John Taylor, mesh with Hall of Fame quarterback Joe Montana to form one of the most potent passing combinations in NFL history. The 49ers won three Super Bowls during Lewis’ time in San Francisco"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Did the offense change in the Steeler game? I didn't notice this...but I wasn't paying that close attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Another thing...are there any Zorn backers left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Another thing...are there any Zorn backers left? Only those that like the man but hate the coach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Only those that like the man but hate the coach! I'm in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Another thing...are there any Zorn backers left? Yes, there actually are. And there are people who "feel" sorry for him. Having Steve Largent speak for him was just low, especially insulting a man (who happpens to have four SB rings) for calling bingo games (when he has also called Offensive, WC FOOTBALL plays) is extremely low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I see you found a way to give Gibbs credit for Zorn's 6-2 start. With your gift for creative logic, I'm surprised you didn't find a way to blame Zorn for trading away draft picks between 2004 and 2006. Then you could blame him for the team's major problem, the sorry state of the neglected O-line. I guess you could also blame Zorn for messing up Jason Campbell's mechanics which were prefect when we spent three high picks for him in the 2005 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm in that category. The man insults a guy for calling bingo games, and his EGO is the biggest reason why we went from 6-2 last year and a promising future, to the ****-storm that we are right now. Even when he was talking about how he was giving up playcalling, he was still in denial that it was his playcalling that was one of the problems, and quite frankly THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. How many times does he have to have a post-game presser where he comments on how "so and so" play was "almost" a touchdown, and "playXYZ" would've been a big gain if he were playing Madden or whatever stupid comments he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yes, there actually are. And there are people who "feel" sorry for him. Having Steve Largent speak for him was just low, especially insulting a man (who happpens to have four SB rings) for calling bingo games (when he has also called Offensive, WC FOOTBALL plays) is extremely low. So, are there people defending Zorn the coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What was the point of changing the font size at the end of the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yes, there actually are. And there are people who "feel" sorry for him. Having Steve Largent speak for him was just low, especially insulting a man (who happpens to have four SB rings) for calling bingo games (when he has also called Offensive, WC FOOTBALL plays) is extremely low. That's only because D&V have made a martyr out of him. At least, for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAFGA Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I like Zorn as a person. I think he is in over his head as a coach but I don't blame him for that. I blame the men in charge for offering him the job of Offensive Coordinator before hiring a head coach! When no one else would take the job, they had to give it to someone already "in house". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Can you please remove the tag? It's hard to read these posts. Although, perhaps that's for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What was the point of changing the font size at the end of the OP? Because its cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 If see you found a way to give Gibbs credit for Zorn's 6-2 start. With your gift for creative logic, I'm surprised you didn't find a way to blame Zorn for trading away draft picks between 2004 and 2006. Then you could blame him for the team's major problem, the sorry state of the neglected O-line. There is noting creative about my logic. I've seen you're posts before and you're borderline senile. What do you feel is the main reason for our 6-2 start? Did you watch the Steelers game? With your glasses on? http://realredskins.com/2008/11/redskins-steelers-1st-quarter.html <--- Starting from the 1st quarter, Rich Tandler's updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spade Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I still remember hearing that Stump Mitchell was behind the 6-2 start and things changed after the Steelers game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Because its cool. it is cool. A wise man once said "go ahead....snoop around!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 So, are there people defending Zorn the coach? There are when he's attacked unfairly, as he is in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Did you watch the Steelers game? With your glasses on? http://realredskins.com/2008/11/redskins-steelers-1st-quarter.html <--- Starting from the 1st quarter, Rich Tandler's updates. Where does it say that the offense changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I still remember hearing that Stump Mitchell was behind the 6-2 start and things changed after the Steelers game. Stump Mitchell is just another coach who is only here because of his homeboy Zorn. http://realredskins.com/2008/11/redskins-steelers-1st-quarter.html You can click that link and read quick, live, tidbits from Rich Tandler as the game was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Where does it say that the offense changed? http://realredskins.com/2008/11/redskins-steelers-2nd-quarter.html "4:16—The Redskins are settling in to more of a traditional West Cost scheme with short passes in running situations. It’s not working very well so far but if Moss breaks a tackle. . ." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 There is noting creative about my logic. I've seen you're posts before and you're borderline senile. That's better. Personal attack is your game. Steer clear of logic. What do you feel is the main reason for our 6-2 start? A healthy O line generating a good run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ok... I need a little bit more evidence than just this hearsay that the offense suddenly changed during the Steelers game. Right now, this is nothing more than more speculation in the heaps of speculation that have been so annoyingly reiterated around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Also, if you read the first quarter tidbits, you'll see how it states CP's 22 yard run, which is not impressive, unless you do that against a D like the Steelers had last year (and it happened to be the longest run they'd given up the entire year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area51 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ok... I need a little bit more evidence than just this hearsay that the offense suddenly changed during the Steelers game. Right now, this is nothing more than more speculation in the heaps of speculation that have been so annoyingly reiterated around here. What evidence do you need? Did you watch the games from last year? Did you not notice the offense looking "different" in the Steelers game (the first Giants too, IIRC) than in the other 7 games before the bye? And do you not remember the Shaun Alexander signing, the timing of the signing, and the reason/justification for signing him (especially when it was evident that the guy was horrible with no physical abilities left to play the RB position)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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