SkinFromNepal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I listened to Vinny Cerrato couple of times in SportsTalk 980...he seem to have too much knowledge about budding college football players... he often speaks about their position, style of play and what are they lacking to a T.... not sure why is he messing up drafting guys for Redskins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Anyone can watch a college football player and tell you what his strengths and weaknesses are, it's having the ability to judge whether or not a player has the ability to play at a certain level in the NFL is where Vinny always comes up short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SellersHappens Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's not so much Vinny's scouting that is the problem, it is his priorities. See: Fred Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod21 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I listened to Vinny Cerrato couple of times in SportsTalk 980...he seem to have too much knowledge about budding college football players... he often speaks about their position, style of play and what are they lacking to a T.... not sure why is he messing up drafting guys for Redskins... The players we actually draft end up being pretty decent. We had many more busts when Casserly and Betherd were our GM. Vinny's problem is how he handles trades, FAs, and the accumulation of Picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 with a gallery of scouts working for you and reports at your fingertips, I am sure he is well informed about the typical strengths and weaknesses... like loyal2 said though, the ability to identify transitional skills and scheme awareness is what separates the pretenders from the gurus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGordon_3 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's not so much Vinny's scouting that is the problem, it is his priorities.See: Fred Davis What everyone doesn't realize is that Vinny's just taking orders from above. Those trades for Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, etc. are direct orders from the Danny. Vinny is just the fall guy. Snyder tells Vinny what he wants and Vinny finds the best guy. Vinny takes toooooo much of the blame. Even if we bring in a new proven guy, the only way he'll be successful is if our tiny owner with the Napoleon complex gets the heck out of the way and just signs checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 "too much" for a GM? What? This is what leads me to believe people are too harsh on Vinny. I don't think he's great and he is probably too beholden to Snyder, which affects his leadership (if he has any) but I think he's a good scout. I actually don't believe if we get a GM that Vinny should be fired but he should be demoted and kept head of scouting and be deeply involved in that area. Then the GM can be a leader of the organization, make the executive decisions necessary and (we hope) not make the dumb mistakes that Vinny occasionally makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drastik Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Vinny picks GOOD players... He just picks the WRONG players... Most of the draft picks Vinny has made have turned out to be good players and value for the pick, they just dont fit team needs. Vinny's problem isnt identifying talent... it's identifying the best solution for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 "too much" for a GM? What?This is what leads me to believe people are too harsh on Vinny. I don't think he's great and he is probably too beholden to Snyder, which affects his leadership (if he has any) but I think he's a good scout. I actually don't believe if we get a GM that Vinny should be fired but he should be demoted and kept head of scouting and be deeply involved in that area. Then the GM can be a leader of the organization, make the executive decisions necessary and (we hope) not make the dumb mistakes that Vinny occasionally makes. Vinny picks GOOD players... He just picks the WRONG players...Most of the draft picks Vinny has made have turned out to be good players and value for the pick, they just dont fit team needs. Vinny's problem isnt identifying talent... it's identifying the best solution for the team. If we don't get 2 out of 3 (at BARE minimum you've GOT to hit on 1) from the 2008 round 2, I would call that a disaster. That was a great opportunity to inject youth into an aging OLine. We have 2 old guys go down, and Rhinehart can't even start in front of a guy who is going to play out of his natural position and just lost over 100 pounds? So right now the 2008 draft looks like a disaster. I understand you can't just compare receivers' production with each other since the system and QB are different, but it is sad just how many other teams have gotten MUCH better production out of their picks while ours have been lackluster. But for those who would say our round 2 picks can still come on, the other aspect to this is their work ethic being so poor - and it showed in their production or lack thereof. They feel like rookies this year (and many rookies from last year have greatly outperformed these guys in their second year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Vinny picks GOOD players... He just picks the WRONG players...Most of the draft picks Vinny has made have turned out to be good players and value for the pick, they just dont fit team needs. Vinny's problem isnt identifying talent... it's identifying the best solution for the team. how do you figure? it's been reported vinny has been in charge of only our last 2 drafts... while it's too early to tell either way, I certainly wouldn't be confident in stating vinny picks good players (or busts)... out of 16 players, we currently have two starters: orakpo and kelly, neither which are blowing the socks off anyone, though orakpo does look like he may have promise at the DE position... if you go down the list of the 16 players, I'm on the fence with just about all of them... and if I had to choose a side, I'd say there are a lot more players that won't be in this league in 2-3 years than there will be starters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Haven't heard the interview but I think two things should be added: 1) It's one thing to identify the strengths and weaknesses of players in college, it's another to grade them out, in order so you know which ones are truly better than others so you don't wind up drafting one WR and have one that goes later in the draft be a better player. 2) He not only needs to identify a players' strengths and weaknesses, he needs to be able to work with the coaching staff and identify exactly what qualities to look for in a given player and determine if they'll be successful in his system. 3) He needs to have some sort of edge over other GMs and find diamonds in the rough or at the very least players who are better than where they were drafted. Except for the Horton pick, he hasn't done any of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Actually his scouting is pretty good, problem is we should do more drafting and less free agency. However, it always seems that the Redskins under Dan and Vinny have been more reacting instead of planning. Meaning they should have been drafting more to acquire the depth instead of reacting to a need only when it is too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Actually his scouting is pretty good, problem is we should do more drafting and less free agency. However, it always seems that the Redskins under Dan and Vinny have been more reacting instead of planning. Meaning they should have been drafting more to acquire the depth instead of reacting to a need only when it is too late. They have publicly said that they would be focusing on the draft (since gibbs left). All indications are that they will follow through on this promise. The question is will they be effective doing it? The jury is out, but right now I think they have shown a big lack of foresight after a year when the OL broke down, they prep us for another year of... the OL breaking down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 So right now the 2008 draft looks like a disaster. I understand you can't just compare receivers' production with each other since the system and QB are different, but it is sad just how many other teams have gotten MUCH better production out of their picks while ours have been lackluster.). Other teams have an established system. Players are still learning the WCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 They have publicly said that they would be focusing on the draft (since gibbs left). All indications are that they will follow through on this promise.The question is will they be effective doing it? The jury is out, but right now I think they have shown a big lack of foresight after a year when the OL broke down, they prep us for another year of... the OL breaking down. This years draft was weak for OL. They flat out said that, and it is the truth. All the good OT were gone in the first round. After the Skins drafted Barnes in the 3rd, there wasn't a OL drafted until the 5th round. So, that should tell you something. Next years draft will have plenty of OL talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins93077 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 the problem is this.. he views this time as needing one more player or a patch job .. when as a blind man can see we need to clean house and play the younger players... we have no line and our rb is injured every week.. so in turn we need another rb.... we need more than a patch job vinny.. and thats what happens when you trade away draft picks and dont build an o-line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The players we actually draft end up being pretty decent. We had many more busts when Casserly and Betherd were our GM. Vinny's problem is how he handles trades, FAs, and the accumulation of Picks.Dude, Beathard was primarily responsible for building the team that Gibbs won 3 Superbowls with.What's Vinny done in almost 10 years here? And if you really want me to dig up the posts again, even Gibbs II had a higher hit rate drafting than Vinny. Casserly you might have a point on, but Beathard and Gibbs? I suspect Vinny isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zallera Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The players we actually draft end up being pretty decent. We had many more busts when Casserly and Betherd were our GM. Vinny's problem is how he handles trades, FAs, and the accumulation of Picks. Dude, aside from Lachey, I believe the every member of the Hogs was a Beatherd or Casserly draft pick or undrafted FA signing. They are excused a bust here or there after building and maintaining the best offensive line throughout the '80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Town Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The Fred Davis pick(and others) will haunt us for years. Also look at all the late round finds that Beathard found during his years here, sure he had to hit on those since we always trading away 1st rounders but the dude knew how to find the late rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Folks you don't get an OLine this old by not drafting OL in one draft. It's been YEARS of neglect and poor management. Count the lineman among first round picks: 1999: Champ Bailey 2000: Lavar Arrington, Chris Samuels 2001: Rod Gardner 2002: Patrick Ramsey 2003: No Pick 2004: Sean Taylor 2005: Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell 2006: No Pick 2007: Laron Landry 2008: No Pick 2009: Brian Orakpo 1- OLineman 1- Wide Receiver 2- Linebackers 2- Quarterbacks 4- Defensive backs Wow talk about dedication to the lines. Snyder clearly understand the concept of building inside out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Folks you don't get an OLine this old by not drafting OL in one draft. It's been YEARS of neglect and poor management. I think your overall point is correct but the actual listing out of those picks is deceptive. You don't pass on Sean Taylor. We can see what effect he had, especially deep (and unlike Landry he came up to make plays.) That's a once-a-decade kind of talent. I don't even recall the linemen available then. Carlos Rogers seemed to me like a Williams pick. As did Landry, to some degree. I think we would have been better off taking AP. As for Carlos, we would have been better off trading down just a bit, getting Aaron Rodgers and an offensive lineman by trading up (instead of taking Campbell.) I agree with you generally, but you don't need a first round lineman to be that successful. Many of the Giants guys are undrafted or third rounders. I think where we've missed has been 2nd and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins93077 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 no you dont need a 1st round o-line man, but the % of them being a bust is low compared to qb's.. shuler ring a bell!!! and i do recall a chris samuels as a great draft pick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Fire Cerrato....this organization is too much all buddy buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr2you Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 What everyone doesn't realize is that Vinny's just taking orders from above. Those trades for Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, etc. are direct orders from the Danny. Vinny is just the fall guy. Snyder tells Vinny what he wants and Vinny finds the best guy. Vinny takes toooooo much of the blame. Even if we bring in a new proven guy, the only way he'll be successful is if our tiny owner with the Napoleon complex gets the heck out of the way and just signs checks. I agree. Cerrato is a puppet for Snyder, anything The Danny wants Vinny gets at any cost. Having said that, there are moves ( a few ) that Vinny has made which has played out very well for our team. But at the end of the day, the Redskins need a hardcore GM who will pick a head coach and staff and makes The Danny sit back and let the man coach without any interference. Will that happen.....only The Danny knows. ( Not Likely ) So having said that....let's hope we have the best scounting personnel in the league and pray for the best;, because we're have the Al Davis of the East owning our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I listened to Vinny Cerrato couple of times in SportsTalk 980...he seem to have too much knowledge about budding college football players... he often speaks about their position, style of play and what are they lacking to a T.... not sure why is he messing up drafting guys for Redskins... Vinny sounds like a natural for the radio biz and he should get a job as an analyst for ESPN or whatever network wants to hire him and he needs to get as far away as possible from Redskins Park ASAP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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