Keep Zorn. Bench Campbell.

[vacanechaser]

Later in the game Campbell drove us down field and scored a TD calling the plays!!!!

well, if you have not read this, then maybe you should... looks to me like he screwed up again and got lucky on the play... you clearly see the frustration in the receivers on the sideline... but then again, nothing new with campbell..

link: http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2009/10/did-jason-campbell-screw-up-hand.html

as for you continuing to say we have one of the top rated offenses, come on, against the lions and the rams... thats something to be proud of right there... the point being made, he does not score points... no touchdowns in the rams game and apparently 2 lucky tosses in the lions game.... and i say lucky because moss was WIDE open and he almost missed that pass too... go luck, moss had to reach behind him to make the grab, as usual and nearly lost his footing... the guy is middle of the road at best... never gonna win you a championship.. not that collins is the answer, but i would love to see him step in and see how well he runs the offense...

[20April1980]

well, if you have not read this, then maybe you should... looks to me like he screwed up again and got lucky on the play... you clearly see the frustration in the receivers on the sideline... but then again, nothing new with campbell..

link: http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2009/10/did-jason-campbell-screw-up-hand.html

as for you continuing to say we have one of the top rated offenses, come on, against the lions and the rams... thats something to be proud of right there... the point being made, he does not score points... no touchdowns in the rams game and apparently 2 lucky tosses in the lions game.... and i say lucky because moss was WIDE open and he almost missed that pass too... go luck, moss had to reach behind him to make the grab, as usual and nearly lost his footing... the guy is middle of the road at best... never gonna win you a championship.. not that collins is the answer, but i would love to see him step in and see how well he runs the offense...

:hysterical:

Let me get this straight. So he drove us down field calling the plays and MAY have made a mistake that even if he did make it he corrected with his legs and his arms on the fly to score the TD!!!!

Once again Campbell nor any qb is going to be mistake free. ANd we don;t even know if he did make a mistake. But we still scored the TD on his play and quick thinking. How is this a knock on Campbell.

Isn't that what you want? A QB who when the play breaks down can still think quick and maximize the mistake? End of the play was a TD.

The bar is so high it is crazy. He will make mistakes. I just expect him to fix it and not make it worse. I do not expect him to be perfect.

I love it, even when he scores a TD he dit it wrong :hysterical:

[20April1980]

Our passing game sucks. We have a QB who still looks confused and timid and erratic. He needs to be benched.

No facts just conjecture.

We are top 10 in most passing stats. We are 24th in rushing. If we took Campbell's rushes out we are 31st with less than 70 a game.

Seems our passing game is working and our rushing game is broken. And it also seems you could care less if the Skins win or lose. Only if you are right. Cause if you did care if we won or lose after all the stats showing we have no run game you would think you would care about that just a lil bit.

I am not here to say Campbell is great, Just that he is not why we are not scoring.

We have not had a 100 yard rusher in 12 games. That is a big part if the reason we collapsed in the second half of the season. CP had almost 1,000 yards by the 8th week but ended with under 1500.

We will lose with who ever is at qb if we can not run the ball. Ignoring the fact that we are dead last in rushing while 11th in passing will not change those facts.

We will lose till we fix the rushing game.

Notice I make a real argument with real facts. Cause I actually give a damn if we win. Not if I am right or wrong about 1 said player. Damn :mad:

[Taylor4Life]

This debate is getting tired and pointless, with both sides pulling exotic stats out our asses and such. I think that it's safe to say that by the end of the year, if we are still a .500 or below team and we're not scoring points on offense, then Campbell is history. We all know this to be the case, so there really is no argument.

It may not be fair, but anyone who has ever held a position of leadership knows that if their unit is not performing, then they're probably going to get axed eventually. That's just life.

[JimmyConway]

The worst think Snyder could do now is fire Zorn 3 games into the season. It would do nothing but throw in the towel, after only 3 games for the season.

On the other hand, benching Campbell should be priority # 1. He is simply too slow to read the field and too slow in getting rid of the ball. West coast offenses require quick judgment and a quick release. He's now been given ample time to show improvement and has not. Time to bench him now. Announce Collins as next week's starter and groom Colt or try drafting another promising upstart after the season. My feeling is we can win with Collins. One thing we do know now is that we can not win or score with Campbell. No he doesn't deserve all the blame, but a large part of the blame for our lousy offense falls on his shoulders.

Anyone agree?

I agree. I'll even take it a step further. Zorn should not only be able to finish this season, he should be brought back for another IF we're unable to acquire Cowher or Grimm.

The Redskins need more stability and continuity. It would benefit our players and IMO would improve our chances for success on the field in the long term. This win-now or else mentality does no good for the team. It also makes our organization look unattractive to potential players, draft picks, and coaches.

[20April1980]

This debate is getting tired and pointless, with both sides pulling exotic stats out our asses and such. I think that it's safe to say that by the end of the year, if we are still a .500 or below team and we're not scoring points on offense, then Campbell is history. That's the bottom line.

It may not be fair, but anyone who has ever held a position of leadership knows that if their unit is not performing, then they're probably going to get axed eventually. That's just life.

:hysterical:

The other side has pulled no stats out of their asses. All this has been is 1 side pointing out what we need to fix to fix our very early season and the other ignoring it.

I could care about what happens next season. We are only at game 3!!!!. :doh:

I love how our fans could care less about this season. Most here gave up on this team before the first damn play this season.

Maybe we deserve the team we have

[RocketCitySkins]

:hysterical:

I love it, even when he scores a TD he dit it wrong :hysterical:

It's a losing battle trying to get a Jason basher to agree that he did anything positive. They complain that he doesn't fire the ball into tight coverage. So he fits in a pass to DT in the endzone between defenders that goes through DT hands and suddenly he's throwing too hard and he doesn't have any touch on the ball.

[Taylor4Life]

:hysterical:

The other side has pulled no stats out of their asses. All this has been is 1 side pointing out what we need to fix to fix our very early season and the other ignoring it.

I could care about what happens next season. We are only at game 3!!!!. :doh:

I love how our fans could care less about this season. Most here gave up on this team before the first damn play this season.

Maybe we deserve the team we have

See other threads - yes, there have been stats pulled by the other side. I'm not going to reiterate them, because I'm done with this debate. As I've said, bottom line is that this offense produces or some heads are going to roll, especially at the top (QB, coaches, etc.). We all know this to be the case, SO THERE IS NO DEBATE. Get it?

So, go ahead and hit me with more strawmen and emoticons! You are awesome...

[vacanechaser]

:hysterical:

Let me get this straight. So he drove us down field calling the plays and MAY have made a mistake that even if he did make it he corrected with his legs and his arms on the fly to score the TD!!!!

Once again Campbell nor any qb is going to be mistake free. ANd we don;t even know if he did make a mistake. But we still scored the TD on his play and quick thinking. How is this a knock on Campbell.

Isn't that what you want? A QB who when the play breaks down can still think quick and maximize the mistake? End of the play was a TD.

The bar is so high it is crazy. He will make mistakes. I just expect him to fix it and not make it worse. I do not expect him to be perfect.

I love it, even when he scores a TD he dit it wrong :hysterical:

the problem is, he makes these mistakes all the time... regardless of the touchdown, he screwed it up... if it had not been for rock making it happen, the play may had very well stalled... just look at the frustration in moss and el... i see them talking to him like that every game... i dont know why, maybe he just cant handle the pressure, but it seems week in and week out that the receivers are pissed over missed plays... he misses way to many.... he apparently does not see the whole field... i dont expect perfect either.. believe me, i'm not perfect either... but by now, you would expect more from him.. more than 14 points against the worst team in the league... and yes, i know some of the blame is on zorn.. i agree... but zorn is not on the field either and can only call certain plays or schemes.. it is the qb to make it happen...

i was a supporter of him until this season.. yes his NUMBERS are nice if taken as just stats... but when you look deeper, against the lions and rams, and only between the 20's , it doesnt look very pretty... if the same thing happens this week, you really have to step back and look at it from another point of view... no points, no wins.... to me, those are the stats that matter...

[RocketCitySkins]

i was a supporter of him until this season.. yes his NUMBERS are nice if taken as just stats... but when you look deeper, against the lions and rams, and only between the 20's , it doesnt look very pretty... if the same thing happens this week, you really have to step back and look at it from another point of view... no points, no wins.... to me, those are the stats that matter...

Explain to me again why the lack of points/stats in the redzone in the Rams game is on JC when Zorn only called Jason 3 passes out of 15 plays in the redzone, 2 of which should have been caught for TD's and then we hear Zorn say he's going to run in the redzone the rest of game because the receivers can't hold unto the ball.

[Operations]

God, I can't wait until next year when Jason "Garbage Time" Campbell is gone. And it is 100% certain that he WILL be gone. His apologists are just too annoying to listen to any longer. The guy is just not a winner and not clutch at all.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

yup and it really means one of 2 things, A> JC doesnt see and/or use his options or, B> zorn doesnt have faith in JC to cal those plays.

either way points to JC not being the man .... and why the hell isnt the coach doing his job and putting our best chance to win on the field.....

if collins is in fact that...

That's exactly right. Zorn has no confidence in Campbell, thus our offense is handcuffed and limited. He has to call "safe" plays otherwise Campbell will find a way to screw it up. The guy just isn't NFL caliber to the dismay of his loyal followers who could give a rip about wins.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

God, I can't wait until next year when Jason "Garbage Time" Campbell is gone. And it is 100% certain that he WILL be gone. His apologists are just too annoying to listen to any longer. The guy is just not a winner and not clutch at all.

Yep. Let's get this no talent out of here so we can start rebuilding.

[20April1980]

the problem is, he makes these mistakes all the time... regardless of the touchdown, he screwed it up... if it had not been for rock making it happen, the play may had very well stalled... just look at the frustration in moss and el... i see them talking to him like that every game... i dont know why, maybe he just cant handle the pressure, but it seems week in and week out that the receivers are pissed over missed plays... he misses way to many.... he apparently does not see the whole field... i dont expect perfect either.. believe me, i'm not perfect either... but by now, you would expect more from him.. more than 14 points against the worst team in the league... and yes, i know some of the blame is on zorn.. i agree... but zorn is not on the field either and can only call certain plays or schemes.. it is the qb to make it happen...

i was a supporter of him until this season.. yes his NUMBERS are nice if taken as just stats... but when you look deeper, against the lions and rams, and only between the 20's , it doesnt look very pretty... if the same thing happens this week, you really have to step back and look at it from another point of view... no points, no wins.... to me, those are the stats that matter...

He doesn't call the plays Zorn does. We ran the ball 5 times in the first half of the lion game. Once on 4th and 1. When Campbell did call his own plays he drove us to 7. And not the first time either.

Shows he knows more than Zorn Imho. We also had 42 yards rushing. We can not win or score when we can not rush the ball.

That is not JC's problem. And mistakes or not he moved the ball and scored 2 passing td's. Where's the Defense and rushing game?

Just look at the production by our offense and by our running game. Dead last if you take Campbell's scrambles out of it. I don't care if Campbell turned the wrong way on that play. He scored the TD. In the redzone. After ****ing up.

That is production. And came on top of the 56 yard TD pass to Moss.

Imagine if between the 340 yard passes we had a 100 yard rusher. Imagine of we could have punched that ball in from the 1. Zorn called a shovel pass, screen and run. That is not JC's fault we could nit get the TD.

It is a collection of play calling, defense 3rd down issues and execution.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Explain to me again why the lack of points/stats in the redzone in the Rams game is on JC when Zorn only called Jason 3 passes out of 15 plays in the redzone, 2 of which should have been caught for TD's and then we hear Zorn say he's going to run in the redzone the rest of game because the receivers can't hold unto the ball.

So now it is the recievers fault? Or is it Zorn's fault? Or is it Portis' fault? Poor Jason has it so hard. Of course your savior Jason's errant throws, fumbles, poor reads, and throws into double coverage have nothing to do with our success, now do they? Get back to us when you get a clue. We are sick of the excuses and coddling of this no talent. He's failed. Bench him. At the end of the season release him. Only then can we move on.

[20April1980]

That's exactly right. Zorn has no confidence in Campbell, thus our offense is handcuffed and limited. He has to call "safe" plays otherwise Campbell will find a way to screw it up. The guy just isn't NFL caliber to the dismay of his loyal followers who could give a rip about wins.

I love how you make your own reality.

So JC has made no mistakes in the redzone and has a 108 rating in the redzone but since Zorn doesn't trust JC it is a JC issue.

What if we could be scoring 30 points a game with JC but Zorn and his play calling is killing us, would that matter at all?

What if we actually had a 100 yard rusher? Remember when Riggins had the rushing td record? All the times in the redzone this year and the punter has our only rushing td. Where did our pride and redskins football go.

Where the hell did our rushing game and actual care about a rushing game go?

No one care that the top scoring teams this year also lead in rushing? Zorn could only muster 5 runs in the first half against the Lions. The lions!!!! And this is about JC after 340 yards? 2 tds.

You are crazy. If we rush for over 100 we score over 21. That simple.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

He doesn't call the plays Zorn does. We ran the ball 5 times in the first half of the lion game. Once on 4th and 1. When Campbell did call his own plays he drove us to 7. And not the first time either.

Shows he knows more than Zorn Imho. We also had 42 yards rushing. We can not win or score when we can not rush the ball.

That is not JC's problem. And mistakes or not he moved the ball and scored 2 passing td's. Where's the Defense and rushing game?

Just look at the production by our offense and by our running game. Dead last if you take Campbell's scrambles out of it. I don't care if Campbell turned the wrong way on that play. He scored the TD. In the redzone. After ****ing up.

That is production. And came on top of the 56 yard TD pass to Moss.

Imagine if between the 340 yard passes we had a 100 yard rusher. Imagine of we could have punched that ball in from the 1. Zorn called a shovel pass, screen and run. That is not JC's fault we could nit get the TD.

It is a collection of play calling, defense 3rd down issues and execution.

And despite all his "greatness" that you claim, we're 1-2 losing to the lowly Lions with the fewest points in the league. Even when we did have a running game, Jason still sucked. I forget what you JC apologists used as an excuse then. He's had his chance and has failed.

Oh, and Jason looks timid and lost out there, yet you think he should be the player-coach because of his "great" playcalling ability. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:. That takes the cake. At least you guys are consistant. Consistantly clueless and blinded in your love for JC for one reason and one reason only.

[20April1980]

So now it is the recievers fault? Or is it Zorn's fault? Or is it Portis' fault? Poor Jason has it so hard. Of course your savior Jason's errant throws, fumbles, poor reads, and throws into double coverage have nothing to do with our success, now do they? Get back to us when you get a clue. We are sick of the excuses and coddling of this no talent. He's failed. Bench him. At the end of the season release him. Only then can we move on.

So only person who is playing bad is Jason?

So Zorn hasn't been calling ****ty plays?

So the defense has not given up 10 -0 lead before the offense 3rd possession in both losses?

So the defense isn't dead last on 3rd downs?

So Moss did not fumble the ball?

No one on this team has been playing great. But the reason we are not scoring more points and are losing is not on JC. It is not an excuse it is the reality.

Once again find 1 post from me saying JC is a great QB. I have said time and time again, I am not defensing JC only explaining what is not working.

You don't care what is working. Very sad. You lost your objectivity.

We are dead last in rushing. Dead last in rushing. We can not even bang it in against the Lions. And you could care less.

[20April1980]

And despite all his "greatness" that you claim, we're 1-2 losing to the lowly Lions with the fewest points in the league. Even when we did have a running game, Jason still sucked. I forget what you JC apologists used as an excuse then. He's had his chance and has failed.

Oh, and Jason looks timid and lost out there, yet you think he should be the player-coach because of his "great" playcalling ability. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:. That takes the cake. At least you guys are consistant. Consistantly clueless and blinded in your love for JC for one reason and one reason only.

No rush yards in the first half.

We could not even get 1 yard from the goal line.

And the defense gave up 3 drives over 70 yards in the first half and a 85 yard td drive in the 4th qtr.

We are a team. Our defense played like crap. Just as they did at times in the Giants game. And once again Zorn forgot we have one of the best RB on our bench. He was forgotten about till it was too late.

That is reality. When Campbell screws up and costs us a game I will say it. He played a big part in the Giants loss. But since than he has played good enough for us to win.

But when you see every team with 2 or 3 big backs chewing up tons of yards and we had 0 in the first half last week. It is sickening. I am a CP supporter. Not a JC supporter. And I would love for us to get back to what will win us games. Riding CP. The way the passing game is going we will light it up.

But it starts with CP

[RED06]

I am saying that if the passing game cannot do better then 9 and 14 points against those two it's going to be a VERY long season if we don't change QB's.

As for Todd since then he actually has better preseason stats then Jason does BOTH years, imagine that.

You would think he would have better stats than Jason in preseason since he played longer :doh:

That's it from me!

RED06

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

No rush yards in the first half.

We could not even get 1 yard from the goal line.

And the defense gave up 3 drives over 70 yards in the first half and a 85 yard td drive in the 4th qtr.

We are a team. Our defense played like crap. Just as they did at times in the Giants game. And once again Zorn forgot we have one of the best RB on our bench. He was forgotten about till it was too late.

That is reality. When Campbell screws up and costs us a game I will say it. He played a big part in the Giants loss. But since than he has played good enough for us to win.

But when you see every team with 2 or 3 big backs chewing up tons of yards and we had 0 in the first half last week. It is sickening. I am a CP supporter. Not a JC supporter. And I would love for us to get back to what will win us games. Riding CP. The way the passing game is going we will light it up.

But it starts with CP

We agree that the running game must get going NOW.

We disagree on Jason Campbell as I am convinced he is not a franchise QB, not even close.

[RED06]

No rush yards in the first half.

We could not even get 1 yard from the goal line.

And the defense gave up 3 drives over 70 yards in the first half and a 85 yard td drive in the 4th qtr.

We are a team. Our defense played like crap. Just as they did at times in the Giants game. And once again Zorn forgot we have one of the best RB on our bench. He was forgotten about till it was too late.

That is reality. When Campbell screws up and costs us a game I will say it. He played a big part in the Giants loss. But since than he has played good enough for us to win.

But when you see every team with 2 or 3 big backs chewing up tons of yards and we had 0 in the first half last week. It is sickening. I am a CP supporter. Not a JC supporter. And I would love for us to get back to what will win us games. Riding CP. The way the passing game is going we will light it up.

But it starts with CP

Bro, you are wasting your time trying to get a good debate with some of these great coaches/talent scouts/know it alls on this board bro. Its a waste of your time and words. We have several Jason Campbell bashing threads on this board so let them rant on and on and on it's no point in keep trying to reason with them man.

You're better than that, you're trying to have an educated, logical conversation and ALL of them are being very emotional and personal so its pointless.

RED06

[RocketCitySkins]

So now it is the recievers fault? Or is it Zorn's fault? Or is it Portis' fault? Poor Jason has it so hard. Of course your savior Jason's errant throws, fumbles, poor reads, and throws into double coverage have nothing to do with our success, now do they? Get back to us when you get a clue. We are sick of the excuses and coddling of this no talent. He's failed. Bench him. At the end of the season release him. Only then can we move on.

And you get back to me when you can deal in the facts surrounding the post I made.

I answered a post blaming Jason for the lack of points in the Rams game. Jason had 3 pass plays in the redzone in the Rams game. That is fact.

I also said that Zorn was heard when mic'ed up to say he was calling running plays after that because the receivers could not hold on to the ball. Again, this is a fact.

It's not subjective. It's not trying to transfer blame. All the other crap you put in had nothing to do with the post that I answered and you make yourself look stupid for attacking me for posting facts. Oh and another fact. I have never once claimed JC to be the savior of the team and have always said I consider him an average quarterback at the NFL level.

[wvtbred]

God, I can't wait until next year when Jason "Garbage Time" Campbell is gone. And it is 100% certain that he WILL be gone. His apologists are just too annoying to listen to any longer. The guy is just not a winner and not clutch at all.

Finally some common sense from Vienna.

[wvtbred]

well, if you have not read this, then maybe you should... looks to me like he screwed up again and got lucky on the play... you clearly see the frustration in the receivers on the sideline... but then again, nothing new with campbell..

link: http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2009/10/did-jason-campbell-screw-up-hand.html

as for you continuing to say we have one of the top rated offenses, come on, against the lions and the rams... thats something to be proud of right there... the point being made, he does not score points... no touchdowns in the rams game and apparently 2 lucky tosses in the lions game.... and i say lucky because moss was WIDE open and he almost missed that pass too... go luck, moss had to reach behind him to make the grab, as usual and nearly lost his footing... the guy is middle of the road at best... never gonna win you a championship.. not that collins is the answer, but i would love to see him step in and see how well he runs the offense...

Excellent post and thank you for this. Once again whether its a bad signal, a check down to a run on 3rd and 8 or throwing a pick once over the line of scrimmage it's shows Jason isn't starting QB material.

I wish whomever is holding the strings allowing Jason to continue to start to just cut them, that means you Vinnie or Danny.