Oldfan Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 this was your question. it makes no sense. You are confused. This was your statement: every year theres good young talent being infused into this team. good young talent does not equal wins. every single team in the NFL has good young talent being infused into their system every single year.And this was my question:Since you know that the AMOUNT of good young talent is the issue, can you explain what you intended to prove with your post?But, I'm not really expecting a straight answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 lol at the patskins.also, no one is discussing the fact that wilbon said his opinion changed after he spoke to other NFL people around the league with more knowledge than him, and thats another reason he changed his tune. I would question exactly what it was he was told that made him change his mind...if they talked about the "ticket fiasco" or if they just talked about Snyder's perceived competence (or lack thereof) and how it can effect the team. Because Wilbon says this: Many of them reminded me how what happens in the executive suites can so thoroughly undermine what happens on the field, of how no team can survive year after year after year of bad, dumb and even mean-spirited decision-making in various areas. He didn't say whether or not any of them felt the "ticket fiasco" should be seen as evidence of the type of executive issues that somehow find their way down to the field and during games...for all we know, the people he talked to were still clamoring on about Snyder signing Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders being evidence of Snyder's incompetence. For all we know, they mentioned firing Norv and Marty as evidence of "impatience" that will "no doubt" get Zorn fired too soon as well (like they said last offseason lol *ahem*)...For all we know, they talked about Snyder wanting to make a "big splash" and hiring Cowher or Shannahan next year... Hell, for all we know, none of these "football people" actually talked about the Redskins at all, and just talked generally about how Good ownership effects the team and how bad ownership effects the team. And for all we know, they rolled their eyes at the idea that the "ticket fiasco" should play any role whatsoever in analyzing the Redskins' chances this season. I found it interesting that he doesn't quote ANY of those "football minds"...since they're all anonymous, surely he could quote even one of them as saying "When I heard about the ticket mess down there, it just showed to me that Snyder is still running that franchise in an incompetent manner, on all fronts. No wonder they never win big."...Or any variation of that. You'd think Wilbon would JUMP at the chance of quoting one of these "NFL people" if they said something that backed up his assersion that the "ticket fasco" should be considered in any context when assessing the Skins this year. But he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTotalPackage Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 If lining up in B&G were the likes of Brady, Moss, etc. wouldn't it be illogical to say that they would struggle because of Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato?? i could definitely see this happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosandskinsMUSTwin Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 This was a really terrible article. I expect more from Wilbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 i could definitely see this happening Please do explain. If this year's Patriots team played its home games in Landover and wore Redskin uniforms, you're telling me they'd win fewer games? I'd love to hear this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBrave86 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hey another BASH D.C. article written by Wilbon. I can't wait until this clown is done with the Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTotalPackage Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Please do explain. If this year's Patriots team played its home games in Landover and wore Redskin uniforms, you're telling me they'd win fewer games? I'd love to hear this... because it's dan snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 because it's dan snyder. Well, at least you've demonstrated enough competence to write for the Washington Post. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTotalPackage Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, at least you've demonstrated enough competence to write for the Washington Post. Kudos. dan snyder has a bad track record with running organizations. have you read "hunter, gatherer ruiner", where he acquired numerous businesses that ultimately failed and/or went bankrupt? that is an example of bad management. he has managed to turn a profit with the redskins, but we can hardly say his tenure has been an example of NFL success on the field. yes. it all starts from the top. even if we had the pats, i'm sure management would find some way to eff it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I personally think the original prediction from Wilbon was foolish and, regardless of his flawed writing/reasoning, he ended up coming out in a much more logical place. Indeed, why would I care about his writing anyway? Jim Zorn might be a good coach, the type of guy who can lead us to a 6-2 start. Or, he might have been the benefactor of the Gibbs holdover, and the real presider over the 2-6 finish. Haynesworth might be a stud for us, or, just like Jason Taylor, he might not be much of a contributor. Our secondary depth might be ready. Our 2nd round picks from last year might contribute. Heyer might hold up at OT. Campbell might be a real leader. Orakpo might be the next Suggs. It could all be true. We could be 11-5 or even better. Unfortunately, the track record is that offseason hype doesn't add up to wins for the Skins. 8-8 is the smartest prediction people can make, IMO. Good for Wilbon for getting to the right place (eventually). This team will win when a coach and QB can will this team to better things. We just need to hope those guys are on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Um, It's Al Davis' directly effecting the players, coaches and even the plays on the field that screw up the Raiders. If you want to call out Snyder for not hiring a good coach in Jim Zorn like Davis goes through horrible coaches, then ok. Don't agree, but ok. If you want to call out Snyder for "playing GM" and bringing in mediocre talent through the draft like Davis does, then ok. Don't agree, but ok.But NOBODY ALIVE looks at some business administrative issues that may involved Davis and says "See? That's why the Raiders won't be winners!". They stick to those things that he does which directly effect players and coaches. It's telling that Wilbon can't seem to do the same for Snyder, so he instead focuses on something that has zero to do with the players or coaches or GM. This is really much ado about mithing. The articel is NOT that far off base. Answer me this Cali... Since Snyder's takeove of the team, have we or have we not put ourselves in cap hell year after year, forcing us to "structure and restructure" contracts of current players... made rediculous trades and lost many a good draft pick for overpriced or over-valued and hyped up players... drafted poorly and/or let the good homegown talent we did draft go to other teams... undermine and create confidence issues wth many a coach and player... did I miss anything? ALL OF THAT comes from the top. ALL OF IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 dan snyder has a bad track record with running organizations. have you read "hunter, gatherer ruiner", where he acquired numerous businesses that ultimately failed and/or went bankrupt? that is an example of bad management. he has managed to turn a profit with the redskins, but we can hardly say his tenure has been an example of NFL success on the field. yes. it all starts from the top. even if we had the pats, i'm sure management would find some way to eff it up. Again, I have conceded that it would be a reasonable argument to say that he could take a 14-win team and, over the span of a couple years, turn it into an 8-win team. I don't agree, but you could make that argument. What I'm waiting for someone to prove to me is that any front office can take a team that is CURRENTLY a 14-win team and somehow cause it to win fewer games THIS YEAR. Simply stated, it is beyond rare that the front office has ANY impact on the field during the season. So, I challenge you again...please tell me HOW Snyder could decrease the win total of a team during a given season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Oh, yes they do lol :yes:...all it takes is one misstep to remind everyone that this is the same Daniel Snyder who signed Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, who fired Turner in mid-season, who didn't buy the Redskins a year or two earlier so that he could stop Casserly from going out and getting Stubblefield...Nothing's changed! Please... one mistake? Jason Taylor TJ Duckett Jason Campbell (I have faith in what he can do... but givng up all those picks for a second round talent? Rediculous... Adam archuletta Brandon Lloyd Lavarr Arrington Stephen Davis Jesse Armstead Bruce Smith Deion Sanders Antonio Peirce Ryan Clarke Schottenheimer (sp) Spurrier... etc... Need I really go on? Msst of those people were front office decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 This is really much ado about mithing. The articel is NOT that far off base. Answer me this Cali...Since Snyder's takeove of the team, have we or have we not put ourselves in cap hell year after year, forcing us to "structure and restructure" contracts of current players... Have not. "Cap Hell" isn't simply when you restructure to make more room under the cap..."Cap Hell" is when you do what the 49ers and Titans have done in the past, and have a clearance sale on your roster and HAVE to let go of multiple talented players and suffer with lesser talents for a year or two in order to get your cap situation back on track. People have been claiming the Skins would be the next team to undergo that experience. We never have. And for the record, when the Skins sign free agents, the are thinking years down the road and figure in restructuring of contracts years before they're needed. They aren't last-minute quick fix solutions...they've always been part of the plan from day one. made rediculous trades and lost many a good draft pick for overpriced or over-valued and hyped up players... drafted poorly and/or let the good homegown talent we did draft go to other teams... undermine and create confidence issues wth many a coach and player... did I miss anything?ALL OF THAT comes from the top. ALL OF IT!!! And NONE OF THAT relates to what Wilbon used as "logic" to back up his claims, does it lol...or are you buying that Wilbon somehow "forgot" all those things 2 weeks ago when making his predictions for how well the Skins will do this season? And as for this: undermine and create confidence issues wth many a coach and player Name the "many a coach and player" that Snyder has undermined in terms of confidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Again, I have conceded that it would be a reasonable argument to say that he could take a 14-win team and, over the span of a couple years, turn it into an 8-win team. I don't agree, but you could make that argument. What I'm waiting for someone to prove to me is that any front office can take a team that is CURRENTLY a 14-win team and somehow cause it to win fewer games THIS YEAR. Simply stated, it is beyond rare that the front office has ANY impact on the field during the season. So, I challenge you again...please tell me HOW Snyder could decrease the win total of a team during a given season. WHat you are asking for is out of the scope of the original question. The desicions the FO makes during the offseason is what ultimatley affects the season. In this area is where the Skins FO has proven more tim than not, to fall short... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Smith Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 The writing is pathetic... Is this a blog?How does a professional writer get away with having a one sentence paragraph that starts with "And". I think the proper description is "incomprehensible rant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTotalPackage Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Again, I have conceded that it would be a reasonable argument to say that he could take a 14-win team and, over the span of a couple years, turn it into an 8-win team. I don't agree, but you could make that argument. What I'm waiting for someone to prove to me is that any front office can take a team that is CURRENTLY a 14-win team and somehow cause it to win fewer games THIS YEAR. Simply stated, it is beyond rare that the front office has ANY impact on the field during the season. So, I challenge you again...please tell me HOW Snyder could decrease the win total of a team during a given season. well we can only speculate here since that kind of situation will never happen (owners will never trade teams), so neither one of us really has any evidence we can use to support whatever result we come up with, so in all fairness, we're reaching. having said that, what we do have is daniel snyder's history with other organizations he's owned; and it isn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Please... one mistake?Jason Taylor TJ Duckett Jason Campbell (I have faith in what he can do... but givng up all those picks for a second round talent? Rediculous... Adam archuletta Brandon Lloyd Lavarr Arrington Stephen Davis Jesse Armstead Bruce Smith Deion Sanders Antonio Peirce Ryan Clarke Schottenheimer (sp) Spurrier... etc... Need I really go on? Msst of those people were front office decisions. My post COMPLETELY flew over your head, didn't it? lol :yes: Here's a hint: I never said the Skins only made "one mistake"...I said all it took was 'one mistake" to REMIND people of their other mistakes...so right there I'm acknowledging that other mistakes were made lol!! Not to mention that my post was being facetious in an attempt to illustrate the absurd...and facetious comments are never meant to be taken literally. However, not only did you attempt to take it literally, you also completely misunderstood the words being used and the point being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 "REDUCED the VALUE" of the Skins "dramatically"? lol...Hardly. TV blackouts around DC? lol...Not very likely at all. And "nobody will care"? Are you kidding me?The Skins were recently reported as being the most profitable franchise in the NFL...and a winning season/playoff birth will wipe away any alledged lingering "ill will" caused by some grandmother temporarily getting sued due to backing out of her contract. Let's not start thinking that the Skins' business practices are Draconian and somehow different from the norm around the league...that's one mistake Wilbon makes in his write up. This simply isn't true. One season would certainly wipe away some ill will, but it would take some sustained success to win back over many of us doubters. Snyder has burned a lot of bridges. I always hope things change...I'll just wait for the actual change in the standings before I annoint this an 11-5 team. I think that's what Wilbon's trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 WHat you are asking for is out of the scope of the original question. The desicions the FO makes during the offseason is what ultimatley affects the season. In this area is where the Skins FO has proven more tim than not, to fall short... Wrong. Wilbon's main point was that he looked at the team as it's currently constructed and thought it was a 10 or 11-win team. Then, upon his revelation that Snyder owns the Skins, he decided they'd only win 8 or 9 games. So, my question all along has been "How can the owner impact how many wins a team gets during the season?" It's well within the scope of the original article and question and it's something that no one has been able to answer to this point (12 pages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Have not. "Cap Hell" isn't simply when you restructure to make more room under the cap..."Cap Hell" is when you do what the 49ers and Titans have done in the past, and have a clearance sale on your roster and HAVE to let go of multiple talented players and suffer with lesser talents for a year or two in order to get your cap situation back on track. People have been claiming the Skins would be the next team to undergo that experience. We never have.And for the record, when the Skins sign free agents, the are thinking years down the road and figure in restructuring of contracts years before they're needed. They aren't last-minute quick fix solutions...they've always been part of the plan from day one. Just becasue its a "plan" does not make it "sound". They way the Redskins FO treats their talent leaves alot to be desired... And NONE OF THAT relates to what Wilbon used as "logic" to back up his claims, does it lol...or are you buying that Wilbon somehow "forgot" all those things 2 weeks ago when making his predictions for how well the Skins will do this season?And as for this: Name the "many a coach and player" that Snyder has undermined in terms of confidence? Like I stated earlier. Wilbon has no need to "back up" what he is saying. If you are a local or longtime fan, you shold be able to search your recent memory about how the decisions the front offie has made, has put the team in precarious situations years after year. Its not rocket science. Perhaps "confidence" was the wrong word. But how about udermining faith in your leadership... Schotty comes to mind Gregg Williams Jason Campbell Lavar Arrington to name a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 well we can only speculate here since that kind of situation will never happen (owners will never trade teams), so neither one of us really has any evidence we can use to support whatever result we come up with, so in all fairness, we're reaching.having said that, what we do have is daniel snyder's history with other organizations he's owned; and it isn't good. Sure...but again, that's apples to oranges as those other organizations were not impacted overnight. 1999 should be the best example since he acquired something that was pretty much Snyder-less. That team went 10-6 and won the NFC East. So, did Snyder do anything during that season that kept us from winning 11 or 12 or 13 games? Of course, you're right, no one can prove anything...but as reasonable people, we can say that it would have to be the rarest of circumstances if a FO actually impacts a team during the season while the coaches and players are in tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 My post COMPLETELY flew over your head, didn't it? lol :yes:Here's a hint: I never said the Skins only made "one mistake"...I said all it took was 'one mistake" to REMIND people of their other mistakes...so right there I'm acknowledging that other mistakes were made lol!! Not to mention that my post was being facetious in an attempt to illustrate the absurd...and facetious comments are never meant to be taken literally. However, not only did you attempt to take it literally, you also completely misunderstood the words being used and the point being made. Yes. It did. BUt you kind of defeat your own argument that post ight there. That is EXACTLY how a front office can affect the outcome of a season. close thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 This simply isn't true. One season would certainly wipe away some ill will, but it would take some sustained success to win back over many of us doubters.Snyder has burned a lot of bridges. I always hope things change...I'll just wait for the actual change in the standings before I annoint this an 11-5 team. I think that's what Wilbon's trying to say. Maybe you're right about individual Skins fans...but as a fan base in general, the "doubters" are FAR outnumbered by those who simply want to experience winning, and don't care about the internal business workings and issues of the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 BTW... you kind of glance over the rest of the "have we or have we not" question. You just "not" about cap hell. What about everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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