WPC: Colt’s Corner – Examining the Ravens Game

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

So that was somebody else who said Campbell only saw the type of pressure once all season that Colt saw against the Ravens?

That's what I responded to, and if it's not a defense of Colt it's an unnecesary and irrelevant attack on Campbell, and you just said in this thread you aren't one of the people who start the JC stuff. Well even if you don;t start it, if it isn't relevant then you don't need to bring it up unless you're responding to someone. You weren't responding to anyone in particular.

And then you resort to exaggerating the stance of the other side? C'mon man, you're better than this. Everyone agrees this is a make or break year for Campbell. It's his contract year. I've seen a lot of people say they HOPE JC become the guy. I've seen very few say JC WILL be the guy. However, I do see plenty of "JC is not the guy and never will be" in each and every Campbell thread. Your side has taken a hard line on something they can't really know, the other side is mostly adopted the "wait and see" approach, since we realioze that's all anybody can do right now.

Again, the "grocery boys" Colt was playing with were facing off against other "grocery boys". The line Campbell played behind last season was obviously better than the "grocery boys" protecting Colt, but then again the defenses they faced were much better than the "grocery boys" Colt was playing against. You're making the situation out to be worse than it is, go figure.

i classified colt as "running for his life" last week. he was trying to throw as quick as possible, and he was probably so scared of that dreadful oline that he was running out of the pocket (which is dumb unless youre michael vick). the only "run for your life" game that campbell had last year was the steelers. every QB is under pressure every game, but my point is the degree in which colt had guys in his face on thursday is much higher than anything campbell dealt with the majority of the season (that being the steelers game).

and colt got sacked 3 times in 12 drop backs right? thats 25% of his plays he got decked. even in the steelers game campbell got sacked 7 times in 43 drop backs, 16%, and that was the worst he faced all season.

[rubynj]

So that was somebody else who said Campbell only saw the type of pressure once all season that Colt saw against the Ravens?

That's what I responded to, and if it's not a defense of Colt it's an unnecesary and irrelevant attack on Campbell, and you just said in this thread you aren't one of the people who start the JC stuff. Well even if you don;t start it, if it isn't relevant then you don't need to bring it up unless you're responding to someone. You weren't responding to anyone in particular.

And then you resort to exaggerating the stance of the other side? C'mon man, you're better than this. Everyone agrees this is a make or break year for Campbell. It's his contract year. I've seen a lot of people say they HOPE JC become the guy. I've seen very few say JC WILL be the guy. However, I do see plenty of "JC is not the guy and never will be" in each and every Campbell thread. Your side has taken a hard line on something they can't really know, the other side is mostly adopted the "wait and see" approach, since we realioze that's all anybody can do right now.

Again, the "grocery boys" Colt was playing with were facing off against other "grocery boys". The line Campbell played behind last season was obviously better than the "grocery boys" protecting Colt, but then again the defenses they faced were much better than the "grocery boys" Colt was playing against. You're making the situation out to be worse than it is, go figure.

Paul Kruger is expected to START for the ravens. Hes no grocery boy.

[Water Boy]

Too bad JC never said that. Can you guess who did?

Come on JC you know you had been taken lesson's from TO. To bad TO stopped helping you in the off-season because he got tired of chasing your over thrown balls.

[elkabong82]

he was franchised in 2004 after making the probowl, and led them to the playoffs again in 05 before he injured himself at the end of the year.

Rivers was drafted in '04 because Brees had been a bust to that point. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp, which put Brees siginificantly ahead of him.

Actually, Brees in 2003, under Schottenheimer, threw for 3200+ yards, and 17 TDs, but the team went 8-8 and the team lost confidence in Brees, which is why they drafted Eli, then traded and got Rivers, in '04.

Rivers then held out all of training camp in '04, giving Brees the edge for the '04 season, the last season on his contract. Brees tore it up, was named Comeback Player of the Year, and made the Prowbowl.

San Diego then put the tag on Brees because they would get 2 1st rounders for him if he was traded for, rather than get nothing. Brees injured himself the very last game of the '05 season, and went to New Orleans as a free agent in '06.

So I don't get why you responded to me, other than clarification. Is that what it was for, because Brees' history still supports what I said IMO, and is a reason to have patience with Campbell for just this season.

[Botched]

Why do I so often hear that Brees was considered a bust? If a "bust" throws 3300 yards and 17 TDs in his first starting season, then what does that make Jason Campbell after year 3? An Epic Super Turbo Fail Bust?

[elkabong82]

i classified colt as "running for his life" last week. he was trying to throw as quick as possible, and he was probably so scared of that dreadful oline that he was running out of the pocket (which is dumb unless youre michael vick). the only "run for your life" game that campbell had last year was the steelers. every QB is under pressure every game, but my point is the degree in which colt had guys in his face on thursday is much higher than anything campbell dealt with the majority of the season (that being the steelers game).

and colt got sacked 3 times in 12 drop backs right? thats 25% of his plays he got decked. even in the steelers game campbell got sacked 7 times in 43 drop backs, 16%, and that was the worst he faced all season.

ahh, 3 times, not 2, my bad. And that's with Colt saying he was rolling out too much, hard to say what he would have done staying in the poicket. But he's only in his 2nd year and he got overwhelmed and the line didn't help him out. I understand that which is why you won;t find a post in my history of me bashing Colt for his play against the Ravens.

However, you're delusional if you think Campbell wasn't facing pressure similar to what Colt was seeing. Campbell can scramble better than Colt, which buys him a little more time. But again, you are just plain delusional if you think Campbell wasn't under consistent pressure for many of those games down the strecth.

Also, you have to count Colt's rushes, since he obviously wasn't given a play call to rush, he did that in scrambling. So it's 15, which is 20%. 20% vs. 16% isn't a big difference. This is all trivial though, because like I said, sacks don;t tell you the whole story, and you know this, stop pretending otherwise. Heck, look how much pressure Jarmon and Dixon were putting on, yet it diodn't materialize into sacks. Same with Orakpo earlier in the game. Sacks aren't the sole indicator for pressure. And you know this and if we we're talking about someone besides Campbell I think you'd admit it then.

[Water Boy]

Dont be so damn ignorant. And stop making rediculous claims while you are at it. You are making yourself look VERY foolish.

I seem to recall someone getting kicked off a month or so ago for call someone ignorant. Well thats fine with me I could careless. I guess if you were not to get kicked to the curb for a day or so you must be a mod. I have all ways felt it was a one-way street around here anyways. Bye-bye

[Water Boy]

Why do I so often hear that Brees was considered a bust? If a "bust" throws 3300 yards and 17 TDs in his first starting season, then what does that make Jason Campbell after year 3? An Epic Super Turbo Fail Bust?

I hear yea!!!!!!!!

[darklight1216]

I watched the game replay of thursday last night ans I recall seeing Brennan rolling out and trying to make a throw down the sideline as he was getting crushed.

I saw another play where Paul Krugger blew up the tackle and crushed colt...Jc wouldve likey fumbled that right?

It's one sack. You can't really make that comparison.

Congrats you found one in the WHOLE HISTORY OF THE NFL. I will give you that one. I guess you think JC will be the 2ed? I would not bet on it.

For what it's worth, I believe Steve Young's team went 2-14 two years in a row.

Paul Kruger is expected to START for the ravens. Hes no grocery boy.

Terrell Suggs is expected to start. Barring injury, Kruger will probably only come in for situational downs. He isn't a grocery boy, but he's still a second string rookie, for the time being.

[Passizle]

Come on JC you know you had been taken lesson's from TO. To bad TO stopped helping you in the off-season because he got tired of chasing your over thrown balls.

So this is what you resort to when you make foolish observations and/or claims? Real classy!

[elkabong82]

Paul Kruger is expected to START for the ravens. Hes no grocery boy.

1 player out of 11, awesome.

[Passizle]

I seem to recall someone getting kicked off a month or so ago for call someone ignorant. Well thats fine with me I could careless. I guess if you were not to get kicked to the curb for a day or so you must be a mod. I have all ways felt it was a one-way street around here anyways. Bye-bye

Lets not get all huffy. Ignorant is not an insult. It is a term used to describe a person that does not have knowledge. It does not mean they are stupid. Just not informed.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant

[littleskins]

I like both Campbell and Colt. Colt will take a chance down the field which is exyting. Campbell has a great arm and is more acurate then peolple want to give him credit for. As for Thursday game. IMO, Jason had the better game out of the two. Maybe because he had the better protection.

[flexxskins]

Most of the times he does not start it.

Umm, I didn't say that he started anything. What I did say was that he turns threads into a "Jason Campbell is not the answer" thread.

And BTW BLC answered my question adequetly, but thanks anyway.:doh:

Someone being a smartass,or trying to feel better about the situation will take anything negetive and run to start a new thread about it.

Huh?

I feel like he presents his case well and asks questions few dare to answer honestly.

Allllllrighty then. Where that came from I have no idea. I mean, who said that he didn't do those things well?

BTW, you've got some doo doo on your nose.

now i cannot speak for him,just saying I dont have an issue at all about his posting.

Even though it is quite clear that you are attempting to speak for him, no one ever said that you had an issue about his posting.

BTW, you still have a little doo doo on your nose.

[Passizle]

Why do I so often hear that Brees was considered a bust? If a "bust" throws 3300 yards and 17 TDs in his first starting season, then what does that make Jason Campbell after year 3? An Epic Super Turbo Fail Bust?

He had three years to prove himself and he had not proven anthing at that time. The team went 8-8 and 4-12 with Brees under center. Remeber, Brees was drafted to be a franchise QB. Up to that point, he was not. Technically, the guy was a first round draft pick (32nd overall) coming out of Purdue.

Back to the point of it all was that Brees took a whuile to develop. He was tearing **** up right out of the gate.

[elkabong82]

no, he means that the chargers gave up on drew brees and he went to the saints and did well. what he conveniently forgets is that brees as a 3rd year starter was franchised after making the probowl, and did extremely well again the next year and was only let go because of injuries and rivers.

and brees threw 17 TDs in his first year starting, then was injured hsi next, then made the probowl.

last i checked we still have the franchise tag. wonder why we didnt use it on campbell? lol

Wrong. Revisionist history, again.

Brees had a good year in '03, 3200 yds and 17 TDs. But many in SD considered him a bust. Rivers is drafted in '04, but holds out all of training camp. Brees starts instead, it's the final year of his contract. Brees does very well, and SD tags him to try and get draft picks out of Brees, rather than get nothing. Brees plays for '05 in SD, does well, gets injured the very last game.

Brees was then a free agent. He went to New Orleans because they offered him a ton of money. San Diego did extend offers to Brees, but had investments in Rivers so didn;t offer Brees as much as New Orleans.

We didn't use the franchise on JC because he's still under his original contract, smart ass.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Wrong. Revisionist history, again.

Brees had a good year in '03, 3200 yds and 17 TDs. But many in SD considered him a bust. Rivers is drafted in '04, but holds out all of training camp. Brees starts instead, it's the final year of his contract. Brees does very well, and SD tags him to try and get draft picks out of Brees, rather than get nothing. Brees plays for '05 in SD, does well, gets injured the very last game.

Brees was then a free agent. He went to New Orleans because they offered him a ton of money. San Diego did extend offers to Brees, but had investments in Rivers so didn;t offer Brees as much as New Orleans.

We didn't use the franchise on JC because he's still under his original contract, smart ass.

he was a 2nd round QB, he wasnt the 1st overall taken. if he was considered a bust after throwing 17 TDs then getting injured, then making the pro bowl, what does that make campbell look like?

any thoughts of brees being a bust were quelled in his 3rd year as a starter, which campbell has already completed displaying nothing close to what brees accomplished in the same time frame. they were just hamstrung by rivers at that point, and frankly theyre that lucky that they had two ridiculous QBs at their disposal. i wish we had that problem.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

found these quotes from our own coaching staff kinda funny, regarding colt/daniels:

* Offensive assistant Chris Meidt, who handles the quarterback meetings, said Chase Daniel was originally scheduled to get some work against Baltimore but the game's circumstances dictated Colt Brennan staying in.

"Colt was in the flow of the game and he was running for his life and we thought to put Chase in that situation probably wouldn’t be a great evaluation chance," Meidt said.

lol at our own coaches using the term "running for his life".

[rgibbs]

found these quotes from our own coaching staff kinda funny, regarding colt/daniels:

"Colt was in the flow of the game and he was running for his life...."

lol at our own coaches using the term "running for his life".

That is funny. Actually, it's sad but funny.

[Passizle]

he was a 2nd round QB, he wasnt the 1st overall taken. if he was considered a bust after throwing 17 TDs then getting injured, then making the pro bowl, what does that make campbell look like?

any thoughts of brees being a bust were quelled in his 3rd year as a starter, which campbell has already completed displaying nothing close to what brees accomplished in the same time frame. they were just hamstrung by rivers at that point, and frankly theyre that lucky that they had two ridiculous QBs at their disposal. i wish we had that problem.

You are missing the point and getting way off topic. The point of the original argument was that Brees did not come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. He was labeled abust by his own team and was giving the same kind of warning shot across his bow that we see from time to time with guy who under-achieve. Brees did not light anything up until his fourth year in the league. He has not looked back since.

Also, there was a little more than moeny on the table concerning the SAints aquisition of Brees. There was some bad blood there as well because of the injury he received in 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees

After the injury, San Diego Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith told Brees that the team wanted him back to full strength and that they wanted him to lead them to a championship. Brees, eligible for free agency, saw the request as a sign that he would be back in a Chargers uniform. He stated in a local San Diego radio interview that he was willing to take less than "franchise-type" money to be with a Super Bowl contender. However, as negotiations began between Brees' agent Tom Condon and the Chargers, it became apparent that the Chargers were more concerned about Brees' injury than they had previously let on. The team offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives, notably that he line up under center 75% of the season. Brees took the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the type of money a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You are missing the point and getting way off topic. The point of the original argument was that Brees did not come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. He was labeled abust by his own team and was giving the same kind of warning shot across his bow that we see from time to time with guy who under-achieve. Brees did not light anything up until his fourth year in the league. He has not looked back since.

Also, there was a little more than moeny on the table concerning the SAints aquisition of Brees. There was some bad blood there as well because of the injury he received in 2005.

.

and again, campbell already played his 4th year in the league and has reached nothing close to what brees accomplished.

youre also forgetting that brees is a rare case, hes not the norm. and frankly brees case is also strange because nobody knows what his 2nd season would have looked like had he not been injured. but he was so it is what it is.

so while youre holding out hope that campbell could maybe be the next drew brees or something close (lol) plenty of us have moved on.

[Passizle]

and again, campbell already played his 4th year in the league and has reached nothing close to what brees accomplished.

youre also forgetting that brees is a rare case, hes not the norm. and frankly brees case is also strange because nobody knows what his 2nd season would have looked like had he not been injured. but he was so it is what it is.

so while youre holding out hope that campbell could maybe be the next drew brees or something close (lol) plenty of us have moved on.

You take my posts out of context far too often. I dont think JC is the next Brees. Not even close. And I am also not comparing the two. The point was that good QB dont all come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. Its just not true. Brees is not the only example.... off the top of my head.

Brees (4 years)

E. Manning (4 years)

Romo sits to pee (4 years)

Rodgers (4 years)

Favre (4 years)

Cassel (could be a flash... ala Anderson... regardless, 4 years))

Thats just to name a few recent guys. Lets not get in the history of the game. Starting to see a pattern?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You take my posts out of context far too often. I dont think JC is the next Brees. Not even close. And I am also not comparing the two. The point was that good QB dont all come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. Its just not true. Brees is not the only example.... off the top of my head.

Brees (4 years)

E. Manning (4 years)

Romo sits to pee (4 years)

Rodgers (4 years)

Favre (4 years)

Cassel (could be a flash... ala Anderson... regardless, 4 years))

Thats just to name a few recent guys. Lets not get in the history of the game. Starting to see a pattern?

now youre talking about guys who sat on the bench forever, and THEN just lit it up. cassel, rodgers, Romo sits to pee, all had no experience playing, then they just came in, bam awesome town.

manning has thrown 20+ TDs ever year. thats important.

favre threw 18 TDs his first year starting, thats impressive. if campbell had ever done anything resembling that, id be all with sticking with him, but he has not.

all those guys you mentioned all came in right away, from day one, and showed those flashes ive been waiting to see. or they just came in and beasted it up right out of the gate (Romo sits to pee, cassel, rodgers).

[Botched]

You take my posts out of context far too often. I dont think JC is the next Brees. Not even close. And I am also not comparing the two. The point was that good QB dont all come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. Its just not true. Brees is not the only example.... off the top of my head.

Brees (4 years)

E. Manning (4 years)

Romo sits to pee (4 years)

Rodgers (4 years)

Favre (4 years)

Cassel (could be a flash... ala Anderson... regardless, 4 years))

Thats just to name a few recent guys. Lets not get in the history of the game. Starting to see a pattern?

Every one of those guys surpassed Campbell in their first full season as a starter. How were Rodgers, Romo sits to pee, and Cassel supposed to "fire on all cylinders" when they weren't allowed to get on the field? Those 3 guys turned it on as soon as they got out there.

[Hunter_R]

now youre talking about guys who sat on the bench forever, and THEN just lit it up. cassel, rodgers, Romo sits to pee, all had no experience playing, then they just came in, bam awesome town.

manning has thrown 20+ TDs ever year. thats important.

favre threw 18 TDs his first year starting, thats impressive. if campbell had ever done anything resembling that, id be all with sticking with him, but he has not.

all those guys you mentioned all came in right away, from day one, and showed those flashes ive been waiting to see. or they just came in and beasted it up right out of the gate (Romo sits to pee, cassel, rodgers).

You've forgotten that, when scrutinizing Campbell, it's about how many "full years" he's played. Only one for him. He's still getting the hang of things.

With everyone else, it's about when they were drafted.