shawn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Dirk: I wasn't knocking on Gardner. I liked him when he was coming out and was hoping dallas could get him to be able to have him as our next Micheal Irvin. I think both Bryant and Gardner are talented WRs that at some point in their careers may play in several pro-bowls. from what you posted I didn't read anything negative about Bryant except his attitude. The reason I brought up Gardner's hands, is that I remember reading in some draft publications about his hands not being the greatest and later when he was a rookie hearing from Skins fans about Gardner dropping a few balls. Would I like to Have Gardner on the cowboys team? heck yes. I think he would be a great addition. and to throw somethign out there, I would not be surprised if he ends up in dallas if dallas feels that he is a reciever type they need to have. Given that Galloway is over 30 and on the down sid eof his career and Glenn in all probability will not get back to his old form. Also given that the skins have to sign Arrington, Baily and need a DT to make the next leap on their defensive side, they may choose not to sign Gardner after his contract runs out, since there are so many dollars to go round and the skins apparantley feel that they are deep in the WR spot and may not want to sink too much more money in there, depending on what Gardner would demand in the market. Now am I gauranteeing Garnder in Dallas, of course not. But I think He willbecome a FA that will not be resigned by Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Gardner is a Redskin, barring a non-$ situation, for another 3 years. He is probably one that will get away, but that time is so far off it's not even worth worrying about. Hell, Tuna will probably be gone by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I think, in general, the Cowboys receivers are underrated on this board. Bryant had an excellent rookie campaign. Glenn is coming off an 800-yard season in Green Bay, so I think he has the ability to be serviceable as a #3. Galloway had his best year as a Cowboy a year ago, with 900 yards and 6 scores. Not great from Galloway, but considering the QBs, I think a solid performance. Had the Skins not acquired Coles, and say a Dyson/Ismail combo instead, along with Taylor, I'd give Dallas the edge. But with Coles, I don't see how I can argue Dallas having the better squad. Again, I think our receivers in Dallas are pretty solid, especially considering the upside with AB. But the Skins have two 1000-yard receivers. Dallas doesn't have one. I think it breaks down that easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Yes it does Dale. Let me also point out a conversation we had last year. I wrote, "Bryant may be the 65-catch, 1000-yard guy you hope. More likely he'll be that next year and beyond. More likely he'll be a 45-catch, 750-yard guy this year and that would be an exceptionally fine rookie year. Essentially you are counting on a rookie to replace a competent player in Ismail. That might happen, but it's more likely that not that the best rookie year you'll see from Bryant is similar to the average year Ismail had a year ago and at the end of it you'll be very excited about the future." You wrote, "But I think he's going to be our go-to-guy and could approach 1000 yards this year. We'll see who's right." This was in this thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14056&perpage=15&display=&highlight=Bryant%20rookie&pagenumber=2 I point this out because you are the most grounded, reasonable Cowboy fan I know. And yet, you are infected with the same disease. The same overly inflated view of every player. Your expectations are beyond the realm of reason very often. Hell, I was almost right on as to how Bryant would do last year so when we saw who was right last year, the answer is I was right last year. I actually knew that 44 catches and 750 yards would be an exceptionally fine rookie year. You grant that Bryant had an excellent rookie campaign and I don't disagree because he hit numbers I assessed would be exceptional. You, however, are left with nothing else but to be highly disappointed in him. You expected more. You were almost certain and excited for more. To you, in order to be honest about your views, you'd have to agree you are disappointed in how little Bryant did for you. You knew your situation at QB. You knew that would limit him. And yet your expectations were clear and unrealistic and because of those expectations you guys think no one else really appreciates just how good your guys are. You allow yourself to create performance levels for your guys that in your mind they are good enough to achieve and yet they never do, and when others recognize they don't, to you, that makes us underestimate them. I'd argue it's the reverse. Dallas fans, even ones as reasonable and smart as you, have shown too often the frequency to overestimate everything their team and players are capable of. It's like a disease. It turns out I seem to have a very realistic view of your team if we continue to look at conversations from last year. Galloway hasn't reached 1,000 yards in four years. Glenn hasn't for three years. These are guys on the downside of their career. Again, I point to the difference between Dallas fans and Washington fans is that Gardner outperformed Bryant as a rookie and was a better prospect entering the draft. He's bigger, faster, stronger. Yet, despite that, and a 1,000 yard second season, there's a relative split on Gardner as to whether he can ever be a true No. 1. Dallas fans are already counting up Bryant's accomplishments. I think, perhaps, we've taken our long stretch of mediocre and often poor play a little better than you have yours in that we seem to understand that expectations are not reasonable unless balanced against knowledge and history. Perhaps we've had some of the stupidity of a fan beaten out of us. You guys haven't. Perhaps a fourth-straight double-digit loss season will start to temper you guys. I'm just surprised three straight has left you hardly noticing what's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Art Yes it does Dale. Let me also point out a conversation we had last year. I wrote, "Bryant may be the 65-catch, 1000-yard guy you hope. More likely he'll be that next year and beyond. More likely he'll be a 45-catch, 750-yard guy this year and that would be an exceptionally fine rookie year. Essentially you are counting on a rookie to replace a competent player in Ismail. That might happen, but it's more likely that not that the best rookie year you'll see from Bryant is similar to the average year Ismail had a year ago and at the end of it you'll be very excited about the future." You wrote, "But I think he's going to be our go-to-guy and could approach 1000 yards this year. We'll see who's right." This was in this thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14056&perpage=15&display=&highlight=Bryant%20rookie&pagenumber=2 I point this out because you are the most grounded, reasonable Cowboy fan I know. And yet, you are infected with the same disease. The same overly inflated view of every player. Your expectations are beyond the realm of reason very often. Hell, I was almost right on as to how Bryant would do last year so when we saw who was right last year, the answer is I was right last year. I actually knew that 44 catches and 750 yards would be an exceptionally fine rookie year. You grant that Bryant had an excellent rookie campaign and I don't disagree because he hit numbers I assessed would be exceptional. You, however, are left with nothing else but to be highly disappointed in him. You expected more. You were almost certain and excited for more. To you, in order to be honest about your views, you'd have to agree you are disappointed in how little Bryant did for you. You knew your situation at QB. You knew that would limit him. And yet your expectations were clear and unrealistic and because of those expectations you guys think no one else really appreciates just how good your guys are. You allow yourself to create performance levels for your guys that in your mind they are good enough to achieve and yet they never do, and when others recognize they don't, to you, that makes us underestimate them. I'd argue it's the reverse. Dallas fans, even ones as reasonable and smart as you, have shown too often the frequency to overestimate everything their team and players are capable of. It's like a disease. It turns out I seem to have a very realistic view of your team if we continue to look at conversations from last year. Galloway hasn't reached 1,000 yards in four years. Glenn hasn't for three years. These are guys on the downside of their career. Again, I point to the difference between Dallas fans and Washington fans is that Gardner outperformed Bryant as a rookie and was a better prospect entering the draft. He's bigger, faster, stronger. Yet, despite that, and a 1,000 yard second season, there's a relative split on Gardner as to whether he can ever be a true No. 1. Dallas fans are already counting up Bryant's accomplishments. I think, perhaps, we've taken our long stretch of mediocre and often poor play a little better than you have yours in that we seem to understand that expectations are not reasonable unless balanced against knowledge and history. Perhaps we've had some of the stupidity of a fan beaten out of us. You guys haven't. Perhaps a fourth-straight double-digit loss season will start to temper you guys. I'm just surprised three straight has left you hardly noticing what's happening. Man, after all the trash talking I've seen on this site I HOPE for your sakes that the skins win double digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Why, Chris? I didn't predict double digits last year. I don't know what I'll think this year, but, my guess is I won't this year either due to the uncertainties of Ramsey's possibilities. You need to hope little for my sake. My team has done approximately what I expected for two years now and three of four years overall. The only group that seems consistently confounded by his team's performance are Cowboy fans like you who continue to see each season as the breakthrough. In one sense that's good because one day you'll actually be right. One day is unlikely today however. Just looking over the volume of conversation we had last year with Cowboy fans what's clear is there's not a single instance I was incorrect. In fact, it's almost scary just how wrong you guys were and how magnificant I was in comparison. So, what you're REALLY saying is for your sake you hope you have something to throw in my face next year. For what it's worth, so do I. I'm tired of one-sided fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 dale, did you notice that favre is not passing to glenn anymore? it won't be long until parcells puts HER on the IR. art, 40yard dash times: rod gardner... http://www.thewgalchannel.com/sports/717876/detail.html -- 4.51 http://www.newsnet5.com/sports/717876/detail.html -- 4.51 WorldWideRedskins -- 4.55 http://www.jsonline.com/packer/rev/apr01/widereceiver-rodgardner.asp -- 4.48 antonio bryant... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/bryant_antonio.htm -- 4.57 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/2002draft/wrs/antoniobryant.htm -- 4.57 good call, i had searched previously and found them both to be just sub 4.6, this time 'round I found some that had RG as low as 4.48!! and with that size!! booo-yah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 No problem A.J. I know you're a draft guy and would look it up if you needed to. The 4.48 time reported by JSONLINE was Gardner's Clemson time PRIOR to the season ending. After the season ended and Gardner went into his March workouts he ran a 4.45 which solidified himself in a relative tie with Robinson and Terrell as the top receiver coming out in a pretty strong receiver draft. That number is here: http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/football/nfl/2001/draft/profiles/rodgardner.htm Here: http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/gary_horton/20010419.html Mostly though sites listed him between 4.48, his best Clemson timing and 4.58 which was his "guessed" at speed since it's not timed. That 4.45 is what really put Gardner on the list as an elite prospect at his private workouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by shawn The reason I brought up Gardner's hands, is that I remember reading in some draft publications about his hands not being the greatest and later when he was a rookie hearing from Skins fans about Gardner dropping a few balls. I don't usually engage Cowboy fans in these type of discussions.... but I did want to make one thing clear. ALL the draft publications were comparing Gardner to Cris Carter... the prototypical clutch receiver with hands of gold. Perhaps that's why everyone here was a little less forgiving of his rookie mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 such deceptive speed... good thing we didn't draft Moss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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