WP: Confidence in Stimulus Plan Ebbs, Poll Finds

[Heisenberg]

7-term Senator from Delaware > 4-term Senator from Arizona > 4-year Senator from Illinois > 2-year governor of Alaska > Congressman from Arizona > State Senator from Chicago > Mayor of Wasilla > Chicago Community Organizer > Alaska sports reporter

... I wasn't sure where to stick Vietnam POW, Naval Academy graduate, Harvard Law Review President, Miss Alaska contestant, or high school basketball champion on the list.

:laugh:

[DieselPwr44]

The thing that's most disheartening is that either:

Both parties never managed a household

Or

Neither know how to perform simple math.

I would shudder to think where I'd be living (most likely on the street) if I managed my household the way the government runs it's business.

[Predicto]

I have to stay out of this thread, or I will find myself challenging about 100 people about the "truths" they so blithely assert, without any support but their own echo chamber.

And frankly, I don't care what the average Joe thinks about whether the stimulus is or is going to be effective, because the average Joe doesn't know jack squat about the subject. Might as well ask the average Joe whether it is better to cool a nuclear power plant using a once-through water system or a cooling tower system. They would have no idea (and neither do I).

I will continue to read what the economists and experts say, and do my best to understand.

[luckydevil]

Clearly the stimulus is not going as planned, but one can hardly call it a bust. Most of the money still hasn't been spent.

EDIT:

By the way Predicto, there are plenty of experts and economists who argued against the stimulus.

[DieselPwr44]

And frankly, I don't care what the average Joe thinks about whether the stimulus is or is going to be effective, because the average Joe doesn't know jack squat about the subject.

The same goes for the Senate and the House.

No one got a chance to read the bill.

That's effective,responsible government now,isn't it??

[Baculus]

The GOP sure are in hyperventilating poll watching mode. Every single small change in such numbers are trumpeted as a victory on Fox and by the Republican party.

From the beginning, even with the stimulus, it was generally agreed that recovery will take some time. But, from the start, "failure" has been the mantra of the Republican party. "Failure" and fear-mongering in general.

This will eventually affect some of the public's perception over time. It's what propaganda does.

Take, for example, the Republican Women of Anne Arundel County Maryland. On the front page of their website, they have a letter which begins with "Obama and Hitler have a great deal in common in my view." The rest of the letter states how Obama is "carpet bombing America" and "Obama is systematically destroying the American economy."

This "Obama is destroying America" mantra has been push from all sides of the right-wing political spectrum.

Their screed further says, "First the banking/investment industry, next private enterprise (GM and Chrysler) and now HEALTH CARE. And he is working on grabbing more of the American economy with his environmental extremism!"

Of course, to these folks, any measure of environmentalism is "extreme."

Continuing, they believe that "Obama Health Care is an OBAMINATION!" and "terrifying." Why? Because the poor, illegal immigrants, and people up to the age of 27 may be covered under the suggested plans.

And this is what they call "terrifying"? This is what the GOP are producing as opposition? I have commented, more than once, that I felt the GOP would be well served as a party of opposition, but I didn't think they would go whole-hog crazy.

It's even more embarrassing that this organization is in my own state.

http://www.rwaac.com/#Obama%20health%20care

Seeing Dick Morris pushing his new book, "Outrage," on Sean Hannity's fake news show, was a real confluence of such "Obama is a taking over the country" hysteria.

Besides Ron Paul, can anyone point me to real honest conservative or GOP opposition to the Obama administration? Is there anyone out there who isn't a blowhard or a hypocrite?

Really, if someone wanted to vote for a Republican, how many honest ones are out there who aren't considered traitorous moderate RINOS?

BTW, back to the original point, here is a page that has some information about various stimulus projects:

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/

If we ARE going to spend money, I think it is a good idea if the public can track it.

[Baculus]

The same goes for the Senate and the House.

No one got a chance to read the bill.

That's effective,responsible government now,isn't it??

Of course Congress had a chance to read the bill. That was just some Republican talking point which has been repeated over and over again. Heck, for days the Republican members were waving around various copies and versions of it before it was even passed, as they claimed they haven't had a chance to read it.

You cannot read a book if you don't bother to open the front cover.

BTW, if the public wants to read the bill (and see of related news reports as the bill develop), go here:

http://www.readthestimulus.org/

If the stimulus doesn't succeed, then it's better for the GOP if they CAN claim that Democrats fully read the bill and understood the contents of it.

[SkinsNumberOne]

By the way Predicto, there are plenty of experts and economists who argued against the stimulus.

Yeah but perhaps that's factored into his point. As non-experts, asserting something as truth seems relatively asinine on a point as complicated as this. Further, there appears to be enough uncertainty among the experts to say that as long as one path has "some justification" it's hard to argue anything for/against it with absolute certainty.

At least, that is what I would say - I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.

[Baculus]

Yeah, but Obama never mayored or ran anything.

Working with ACORN, registering dead voters as Dems doesn't count.

Being a US Senator for a few hundred days means nothing.

Fact is, she is more qualified to be President than Kim Jong O, and it's starting to show.

If you pay attention and look past the media filter, Obama is a gaffe machine...

Did you just compile a list of GOP talking points? Wow, you got several of them in there -- ACORN, "dead voters," "Kim Jong O"....It's as if you are a ConservaBot, "propelling the propaganda," as George W. Bush once said.

Experience means little if you don't seem competent, and Palin does not seem competent. Even as city mayor she couldn't even bother to deal with the details of running the town, so they hired a city manager to help with her tasks. After she left her mayoral position, Wasilla was left with a $20 million dollar debt when it previously had a balanced budget and no debt.

Seriously, have you actually listened to her interviews or her attempts at "debating" with Joe Biden? She couldn't even be truthful as she told several distortions, such as taking credit for a program that she had actually opposed as governor.

And the "Obama gaffes" have been few and far between, especially compared to previous presidents. (Of course, I am sure you were one of the Republicans freaking out because Obama gave the Queen of England an iPod.)

[SkinsHokieFan]

The GOP sure are in hyperventilating poll watching mode. Every single small change in such numbers are trumpeted as a victory on Fox and by the Republican party.

A whole lot of stuff SHF deleted

I am very confused by your entire post.

A) If anything, I have been harder on Republicans then the President since the President came into office

If I recall you are fairly supportive of Congressman Paul and seem to think along the same lines he does. If there was one Republican in Congress who could articulate clear opposition to the stimulus, it was Ron Paul. He clearly laid out the case as to why he felt it was bad bill, without the hysterics, made the rounds and then voted against it.

I am just stunned by the tenor of your entire post, which seems to me to be supporting the stimulus, when Ron Paul was 100 percent opposed to it.

As for the fear mongering, the President must have used the word "crises" about 100,000 times (I am not joking) in the weeks leading up to the stimulus vote. The "we must pass this immediately or the economy will end" mantra was beaten into the electorate for weeks by the President.

And now we see its impact has been little, unemployment is nearing 10 percent, and only 6 percent of the funds have been released. Even VP Joe Biden has acknowledged this a few weeks back.

I am just surprised by the tenor of your post coming from a Ron Paul supporter (unless I am mistaken about that)

[Baculus]

I am very confused by your entire post.

A) If anything, I have been harder on Republicans then the President since the President came into office

If I recall you are fairly supportive of Congressman Paul and seem to think along the same lines he does. If there was one Republican in Congress who could articulate clear opposition to the stimulus, it was Ron Paul. He clearly laid out the case as to why he felt it was bad bill, without the hysterics, made the rounds and then voted against it.

I am just stunned by the tenor of your entire post, which seems to me to be supporting the stimulus, when Ron Paul was 100 percent opposed to it.

Just as a note, my post wasn't directed at you in particular.

I am still a supporter of Ron Paul, and I was not fully in favor of the stimulus bill, for various reasons. That being said, it has passed at this point so the best I can hope for is some success in areas where the money is spent. And if the money isn't spent, than it's one less bit of borrowing we have to worry about.

Criticism, where warranted is fine, but that is where I support Paul, because he is principled. Compare this to many of the other conservatives whose opposition is based upon some other foundation (as opposed to true conservative principles).

If you notice, too, Ron Paul has veered away from much of the language that we hear from many on the Right.

As for the fear mongering, the President must have used the word "crises" about 100,000 times (I am not joking) in the weeks leading up to the stimulus vote. The "we must pass this immediately or the economy will end" mantra was beaten into the electorate for weeks by the President.

Sure -- the situation, rightly or wrongly, was portrayed as an emergency. It may have been disingenious and your criticism is warranted.

Compare this, though, to the "Obama is a Hitlerian Muslim Communist who is going to destroy America with his army of ACORN supporters!"

I am certainly worried about our national debt, deficit spending, and the size of the state, but I don't believe this is an Orwellian seize of power as portrayed by many on the Right. If Obama makes mistakes, it's due to bad policy, not due to some nefarious reason.

One can point out flaws without resorting to wrestling in the mud. If someone is competent or incompetent, let's find actual reasons (such as my criticism of Sarah Palin's job as major and governor).

And now we see its impact has been little, unemployment is nearing 10 percent, and only 6 percent of the funds have been released. Even VP Joe Biden has acknowledged this a few weeks back.

Yep. I can see this taking more time, if the funds are spent at all, which, in some cases, won't be a bad thing.

I am just surprised by the tenor of your post coming from a Ron Paul supporter (unless I am mistaken about that)

Here is part of the issue: I really do not like some of the right-wing pundits, their language, tone, and the general thrust of their discourse. I especially despised them when attacked Ron Paul and I don't like their same tactics used against Obama before he's been successful or a failure.

These people will bring out the ire in me every time.

It further makes me a bit disgusted that some of these people are now trying to ally with Ron Paul, when I know they'd stab him in the back first chance.

Articles from libertarian sites and thinkers, to me, are examples of principled opposition. I just do not see this, though, from many on the opposite side of the Democratic political spectrum, except for a few key individuals (such as Paul).