If you want to know what happened with the housing market turn on CNBC

[chipwhich]

oh not everything was people and banks lying, but if people were only getting approved for what they could afford then those prices would not have gone up so fast, that was the impact it put on those who could afford these mortgages

then the county's increased budgets due to the amount of revenue they were making from the rising home prices, not including all the money people made by selling these loans as investments

you nailed it, everyone wanted in no matter how

it is that simple, everyone saw how much money there were making and didn't care what was happening

Yeah but you are ignoring the obvious. People felt that if they didn't get in they wouldn't have a chance.

The majority of bad mortgages out there aren't no doc loans. It's a bigger problem, primarily appraisers, appraising houses way too high, and lenders not doing their due diligence. It's not on the people. And in case you aren't aware, appraisers are still appraising houses way too high.

[jbooma]

Because once the home buyer buys the loan, the turn around and sell it to a big bank. The big banks were buying everything. The big banks then chopped up these loans and sold them as securities with AAA ratings. Foreign countries were desperate for AAA rated American securities. The foreign countries bought up all of these pre-packaged AAA rated securities because they were none the wiser.

Sounds like a goddamn pyramid scheme to me.

Bingo

and the government did NOTHING to halt it, thats the problem people are never going to govern themselves when they are making money hand over fist, greed won

prior to this mess i was fan of the open market and even the king of the free market Greenspan even said he feels it could still exist but there has to be changes made, meaning government regulation

[GibbsFactor]

Because once the home buyer buys the loan, the turn around and sell it to a big bank. The big banks were buying everything. The big banks then chopped up these loans and sold them as securities with AAA ratings. Foreign countries were desperate for AAA rated American securities. The foreign countries bought up all of these pre-packaged AAA rated securities because they were none the wiser.

Sounds like a goddamn pyramid scheme to me.

But that was regulated. :2cents:

[GibbsFactor]

this was a failure on the entire financial industry because everyone wanted a piece of the action but didn't hear from the SEC or the federal government so kept it going

which is why i say we need the tighest regulation on the financial industry because that is the lifeblood of this country

Wait, first you said there was no regulation but now there is but not enough? You're proving my point.

[Springfield]

The industry is in it to make money. It is in their best interest to loan out money to those that can repay it. Those that made bad loans are suffering the consequences. Usually when a new regulation is made the cause of it is a FUBAR of some sort. The industry made a huge fubar and as such will adapt or cease to exist.

But the problem is, the mortgage companies had no risk. They could sell a mortgage to anybody, even if they knew that they would default. The'd just sell that loan to a bank and the bank would assume the risk.

[GibbsFactor]

But the problem is, the mortgage companies had no risk. They could sell a mortgage to anybody, even if they knew that they would default. The'd just sell that loan to a bank and the bank would assume the risk.

Which is the failure of the SEC. See what I'm saying?

I'm not saying the industry should have no regulations, just warning that the Government probably isn't the best solution for every problem we face in life.

[Springfield]

But that was regulated. :2cents:

I agree. It was regulated. The rules were in place. Nobody cared...

There was no oversight to enforce these rules. I'm not going to pretend like I'm a professional, I don't know what the rules were. I'm also generally not for "government oversight" of anything. I agree that the government gets in the way too much. However, if this problem could have been avoided by proper government oversight, I wouldn't be against it.

[chipwhich]

But the problem is, the mortgage companies had no risk. They could sell a mortgage to anybody, even if they knew that they would default. The'd just sell that loan to a bank and the bank would assume the risk.

Had no risk? Are you kidding me?

[jbooma]

Yeah but you are ignoring the obvious. People felt that if they didn't get in they wouldn't have a chance.

.

They wanted money just like the banks, and guess what who runs the banks oh wait people :doh:

They were all greedy in this.

Gibbs I said there was little to no regulation before, now I am not sure how much there is, my point is to make sure this doesn't happen again there needs to be tighter regulation.

[GibbsFactor]

Iproper government oversight, .

I'm with you, unfortunately, that quote in this post is an oxymoron.

[jbooma]

Which is the failure of the SEC. See what I'm saying?

I'm not saying the industry should have no regulations, just warning that the Government probably isn't the best solution for every problem we face in life.

Gibbs almost every bank was trying to milk this so how can you have the financial market try to regulate itself when it woudln't??? This is why free markets in certain industries won't work.

That is where the open market failed us. The leaders of some of these banks and Greenspan said the exact same thing!!!!!! They couldn't stop themselves and the government had no power because of the lax regulation.

[GibbsFactor]

They wanted money just like the banks, and guess what who runs the banks oh wait people :doh:

They were all greedy in this.

Gibbs I said there was little to no regulation before, now I am not sure how much there is, my point is to make sure this doesn't happen again there needs to be tighter regulation.

I found the CNBC piece dishonest. It said the Mortgage industry was the only 1 trillion dollar industry that wasn't regulated. It's just not true. The money to buy the house came from regulated sources. They presented it wrong and it makes me wonder if they have an agenda. CNBC seems to always side with big business and what they say seems to be the rule of law and general consensus of expert opinion. Look where that's gotten us.

[chipwhich]

They wanted money just like the banks, and guess what who runs the banks oh wait people :doh:

They were all greedy in this.

Gibbs I said there was little to no regulation before, now I am not sure how much there is, my point is to make sure this doesn't happen again there needs to be tighter regulation.

There is no regulation today, I just refinanced a rental propety and if I told you the details you would be dumbfounded.

Real Estate people, Mortgage People, Builders, Appraisers are losing work and commissions. Nothing is improving. They do whatever it takes to close a deal.

[Springfield]

Had no risk? Are you kidding me?

If a homeowner buys your mortgage and then you immediately sell that mortgage to a bank, where is the risk?

You've already been paid.

[jbooma]

I found the CNBC piece dishonest. It said the Mortgage industry was the only 1 trillion dollar industry that wasn't regulated. It's just not true. The money to buy the house came from regulated sources. They presented it wrong and it makes me wonder if they have an agenda. CNBC seems to always side with big business and what they say seems to be the rule of law and general consensus of expert opinion. Look where that's gotten us.

Actually they blamed everyone mortage companies, large banks, wall st, american people, greenspan, government, other countries etc.... you may need to see the entire thing first

[chipwhich]

If a homeowner buys your mortgage and then you immediately sell that mortgage to a bank, where is the risk?

You've already been paid.

You said mortgage companies had no risk. That is false, unless you are taling about settlement companies.

[jbooma]

There is no regulation today, I just refinanced a rental propety and if I told you the details you would be dumbfounded.

Real Estate people, Mortgage People, Builders, Appraisers are losing work and commissions. Nothing is improving. They do whatever it takes to close a deal.

well they want money so most likely you can afford it so what is the big problem? now let me know how it goes if you try to buy a $500k home while making $50k and only have 5K to put down let me know how that goes

[GibbsFactor]

Gibbs almost every bank was trying to milk this so how can you have the financial market try to regulate itself when it woudln't??? This is why free markets in certain industries won't work.

That is where the open market failed us. The leaders of some of these banks and Greenspan said the exact same thing!!!!!! They couldn't stop themselves and the government had no power because of the lax regulation.

But that is implying that a free market is a perfect market. Nothing is perfect and we will always have these kinds of problems, capitalist or socialist or feudalism. What I find horrifying is our ever growing national opinion to state that just because we've had a FUBAR, we must declare the free market a failure and provide more interference and manipulation to prevent it, as if the market wouldn't prevent it itself. It will. We won't have this problem again with or without the government because the dangers have been made aware to everyone.

There has to be victims for something to sink home. It's just life.

[chipwhich]

well they want money so most likely you can afford it so what is the big problem? now let me know how it goes if you try to buy a $500k home while making $50k and only have 5K to put down let me know how that goes

I can afford it, so can the buyers who bought these crappy mortgages...which still occur today. It doesn't mean I will pay my loan over the long run.

Most buyers could afford the payments....initially.

[GibbsFactor]

Actually they blamed everyone mortage companies, large banks, wall st, american people, greenspan, government, other countries etc.... you may need to see the entire thing first

Of course they blamed everyone. But they are still listening to them as if those that are to be blamed have the answers. See what I'm saying?

It's like listening to experts that got us into this mess then pointing the finger at the group and saying this is how we fix it. They have the wrong mindset and since all of them are screaming for regulation, it scares me as to whether or not there is some agenda for big business with this regulation. I mean just look to the Madoff thing. He used the Government to his advantage and I fear the same is happening here.

[GibbsFactor]

well they want money so most likely you can afford it so what is the big problem? now let me know how it goes if you try to buy a $500k home while making $50k and only have 5K to put down let me know how that goes

Countrywide is still issuing ARMS. Why? Because we didn't purge them and their practices from our economy.

[jbooma]

Of course they blamed everyone. But they are still listening to them as if those that are to be blamed have the answers. See what I'm saying?

It's like listening to experts that got us into this mess then pointing the finger at the group and saying this is how we fix it. They have the wrong mindset and since all of them are screaming for regulation, it scares me as to whether or not there is some agenda for big business with this regulation. I mean just look to the Madoff thing. He used the Government to his advantage and I fear the same is happening here.

greenspan is the government and agreed, how is this all big bussiness?? and it takes a while for new laws on regulation to take affect, trying to buy a new home right now with little cash is very hard, thus there is a small change

arms are not bad as long as the person agreeing to it understands exactly what the changes will be and they have the resouces necessary to pay it even when the rates go up

[zoony]

Countrywide is still issuing ARMS. Why? Because we didn't purge them and their practices from our economy.

Why do you think ARMS should be purged?

I think where the regulation is needed is who they give the ARMS to, not the ARMS themselves. Lots of fixed-rate mortgages are failing too.

Because without regulation it's obvious that lenders will loan money to anyone. They don't give a ****. Because they're a bunch of ****ing idiots, basically, who need help wiping their own noses.

.....

[Springfield]

You said mortgage companies had no risk. That is false, unless you are taling about settlement companies.

How do they have risk if they have already been paid by a bank for the entire amount of the loan?

[GibbsFactor]

Why do you think ARMS should be purged?

I think where the regulation is needed is who they give the ARMS to, not the ARMS themselves. Lots of fixed-rate mortgages are failing too.

Because without regulation it's obvious that lenders will loan money to anyone. They don't give a ****. Because they're a bunch of ****ing idiots, basically, who need help wiping their own noses.

.....

I meant Countrywide wasn't purged, not the ARM. The problem is that Countrywide and their peers haven't been shown the door and have yet to face any consequences. They got bought by BofA with government assistance.