Monkey Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Could Deion be leverage on Smoot? Assume we plan to keep 5, the number of CBs that I think we keep. Deion is on the roster along with Green and Champ, Smoot is looking at a fight for 4 or 5 if he holds out. With no Deion, he's looking at 3 or 4 with a hold out and could get a legit chance at 2. If he signs with no hold out, we could remove Deion from the table and the 3 would likely be Smoots to lose with a very legit chance at 2. While his agent should be tasked with getting the best deal he can for his client, I'd think that if Smoot is worth anything, he wants to compete plus the opportunity to get that kind of playing time would make an incentive-based package a bit more attractive. Once Smoot is signed (escp. if he's in on time) and we don't do something stupid like cutting Green, we would have leverage on Deion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 I agree with ART. Any D-lineman not on a team by now is probably not going to be a factor this year. Smart money says Deion gives back some of the bonus and signs with Denver. Maybe we use the space to sign the rest of the rookies and extend a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 I am not advocating cutting Sanders right now, merely noting that the suggestion we keep Sanders for the entire season regardless of other factors does not sound logical to me. We won't see until later in the summer some other players become available at DE and RB. At that time it will be a cost/benefit on signing those players and seeing how much we need to spend. But locking into a decision now seems foolhardy, just to "teach" Deion a lesson as some have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 The Deion situation needs to be resolved before the start of training camp. In order to sign our rookies, we either need to restructure some contracts or cut Deion. We don't want to do both as that would leave us with unused cap dollars this year and bigger cap problems next year and the year after. And the rookies need to be signed before the start of camp. So Deion will not go to camp to compete for a job. If he is at camp, Marty will figure on him staying for the season. But if I am Marty, I want no part of Deion. I don't want his attitude infecting the rest of the team and I don't trust him out there with his diminishing skills and lousy attitude. I also don't want him taking playing time from Smoot and Harrison who I hope to develop. To Art's point, I would rather have what's left of the $3.5 million in my pocket not knowing where I am going to spend it than have Deion on the roster. Besides DT, we have a serious hole at backup RB. If Davis were to go down in preseason with a season ending injury, kiss this year goodbye. We don't know who will be cut by the other teams during camp. Could be somebody totally unexpected at either DT or RB and I would want the money available to snatch them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Dirk sez: I agree with ART. Any D-lineman not on a team by now is probably not going to be a factor this year. While that may be true, the more likely scenario is that a D lineman currently ON a team now might could be released in the pre-season and we might pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Sailor, The common misconception is that we need to cut Deion in order to sign our draft picks. That's not true. Only Gardner is assured to count against the cap the moment he signs. I suspect Smoot will too, but that's not a sure thing. The rest of the picks will not count against the cap at all for the entire preseason until final cut down day when we have to be under the cap with the final roster cuts. Anyone who thinks Sam Shade is a safe bet to count $2.3 million in salary this season probably would want to inspect that. Darrell is also a choice person to renegotiate downward, with the new rule that benefits vets coming into play next year, we can reward him then. No matter how you slice it though, the Redskins have enough cap space at the moment to do what needs to be done. And, we have an additional $3.5 million to use as we see fit. I'd rather have Deion on the roster than some scrub defensive lineman. I'd rather not have Deion on the roster, but, I don't believe we'll cut Deion until we have something else we need on the radar screen. What I'd like to see is the Redskins forcing Deion to show up for camp. Make him bust his hump. Talk about him in the media as just another guy competing for a starting spot. Then, as camp goes on, start talking about Deion being just another guy fighting for a spot on the team, since the young players are showing a lot. Then, at the last roster cut, you cut Deion, have money to burn, and you screw the ******* at least a little while longer while cutting him with the information that "We felt he no longer had the ability to help our football team." We don't need to cut Deion to sign our draft picks. We don't need to do much to do that at all. Gardner won't count all that much against the cap. Deltha O'Neal counted $381,000 in salary and $650,000 in bonus money against the cap a year ago as the No. 15 draft pick. Gardner will make something more than that overall, but, it could be structured differently. All I know is that Gardner isn't going to break the bank to sign. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Henry, how does one type out that "duh" sound that Homer Simpson says all the time:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 You mean Doh!, it was in the post the other day. "The OED's online edition defines Homer's trademark "doh!" as "expressing frustration at the realization that things have turned out badly or not as planned or that one has just said or done something foolish. Also implying that another person has said or done something foolish." Sorry, I had to correct you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 26, 2001 Author Share Posted June 26, 2001 and here is my favorite Homer sound bite "You're right, Marge. Just like the time I could have met Mr. T at the mall. The entire day, I kept saying "I'll go later, I'll go a little later..." And when I got there, they told me he just left. And when I asked the mall guy if he'll ever come back again, he said he didn't know. Well, I'm never going to let something like that happen again! I'm going into space right now!" I have that one on tape. Mr. T rocks ------------------ Pootie Tang whoop your *** so bad, you can write it off on your taxes! [ by Bufford on June 26, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 remember how late we picked up Marco Coleman a couple of years ago from San Diego? he was a bargain that year for $1 million as he started all 16 games. I think there will be veteran players released this year who will be contributors for someone else. Art is right that as of now, these players are unknown and we should keep Deion until we have a plan. But don't doubt that a real choice will materialize. Remember last year when some of us advocated signing William Thomas after he was dumped by the Eagles? Seems he had a VERY good year for the Raiders in helping them to the AFC Championship Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 We picked up Coleman on June 3, so it wasn't that late a signing. It was a great signing of the players available on June 1 though. This offseason has been substantially different than the past few. June 1 never really came like it has in the past. Most teams made the adjustments they needed to make prior to June 1. While I'd like to see us make a run at Wadsworth with some of that Sanders money, I'm not sure we are going to see much quality coming open for us. Remember that while William Thomas wasn't signed until July, that was not because he was a late cut. He was cut in March by the Eagles and he simply held out for more money or opportunity until the Raiders came along. I don't know that I can find a single example of a player of any consequence who signed in the offseason that hadn't been released on or about June 1. Teams don't have to make a cut due to cap concerns now. We won't see players worth a damn until after a couple of preseason games. And I'm not sure we'll see too many solid defensive lineman among them, though I'm hopeful. I think Marty knows we are not going to get much quality along the defensive line. And he must, like we do, fear the outcome of going with what we have now. But, he's smart enough to know he should build those guys up so they have confidence in their ability going into the season. Obviously the defensive line position is a great concern. I am hopeful something will come available for us. I just don't see what would be worth the expense other than Wadsworth, and he only for the potential growth he could provide. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Bufford don't make me start a Simpon's thread. I have so much useless info memorized about them. Have you been able to see a few split seconds of an episode without sound and know which one it is? Scary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Art, From what I understand, Wadsworth would be a "project" pick. Is that correct? He'd mostly be destined to play opposite Coleman in '02, don't you think? This is assuming he's okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 Monkey, Wadsworth would be a guy to select if you think he has anything left down the road, as he'd be limited in his ability this season. Though, he could spell both Smith and Coleman this year in limited playing time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excited about Wadsworth, but, of the defensive linemen out there, he has the most potential reward. If not immediately then down the road. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 You didn't correct me skinsfreak, I asked! Earlier in this thread I said something pretty stupid and worthy of a Homeresque "Doh!" Now I've got it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 A Wadworth is damaged goods his knees are a concern as well as his motor. I say hang on to slimetime also ------------------ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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