Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87052,00.html "I'm pretty excited about it," Rep. Pete Gallego said just before the first bus crossed the state line. He's excited about it? This makes him proud? This shameful act deserves a prison sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Kilmer, I'm proud of them. They stopped a wrong from being done to the people of Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Jack, they stopped the will of the people of Texas. Like it or not, the GOP was chosen by the people of Texas. For years the Dems controlled the house and they passed numerous redistricting bills that the GOP opposed. However, at NO point, did the GOP pull a stunt like this. It's shameful, but the precedent has been set. I would bet the Dems NEVER get a bill passed in Texas unless they control a supermajority. MSNBC showed a poll from the Dallas Morning News that showed over 75% of the people in Texas opposed the Dems ploy. They should be arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Check that on the poll. I cant find it on their website. It might have been a different paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Hmm, I think you've got some of the wrong people to go to jail. The ones you want were the one's who were in charge of drawing up the districts in the past. I believe they were also Dems, but I don't kow how many fo them are still there. Of course I'd throw this bunch of Republicans in there with them too. Gerrymandering districts is not one of my favorite parts of our political system. Some of the interviews on NPR this week have had the Republicans working for this redistricting out there. Invariably, they say "This is what we've dealt with for years" or something to that effect. I understand their frustration. What I'm not sure of is why if they hated that process when it wasn't in their favor, they are okay with it now. It always sucks. Districts that are 10 miles long and 2 blocks wide are rediculous. It's a way of grabbing political power that both sides have used to their advantage. When the Republicans took over the house in the 90s one of the large causes was that they had majority in most of the local politics and had just won more governorships in the the previous election. That timed with the Census paved the way for Republicans across the US. Gerrymanding is time honored. People shouldn't view their local elections as meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Jack, they stopped the will of the people of Texas. Like it or not, the GOP was chosen by the people of Texas. For years the Dems controlled the house and they passed numerous redistricting bills that the GOP opposed. However, at NO point, did the GOP pull a stunt like this. It's shameful, but the precedent has been set. I would bet the Dems NEVER get a bill passed in Texas unless they control a supermajority. MSNBC showed a poll from the Dallas Morning News that showed over 75% of the people in Texas opposed the Dems ploy. They should be arrested. Just because the GOP was voted to the majority doesn't mean the represent the will of the people on all issues. This is a republic and the rights of those not in the majority are important as well. I would bet if those "75%" in the poll saw the new map they would change their tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 So how should redistricting be decided? Forget for a minute that the Dems have be doing the EXACT SAME THING for years. If not by the elected officials, how should it be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 hmm... i thought there was a thread about this topic the other day. kilmer, it is obvious you hate the dems. you didn't need to start a new post to profess this. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 So how should redistricting be decided? Forget for a minute that the Dems have be doing the EXACT SAME THING for years. If not by the elected officials, how should it be done? Kilmer, In 2001 - the DEMS and the GOPers in Texas couldn't agree on redistricting. So they went to the Courts who came up with a redistricting plan. It was adopted, from what I can tell. Now that the GOP has come into power in Texas, they want to revisit redistricting again - 8 years before they are required to. Now why again would they want to do that? So that they can get more representation (hello Mr. Cracking and Mr. Packing). Your cries that this is how its always been done fall on deaf ears here from me...since I don't care how its always been done. I do care that its a very shady way of doing things and that it should be changed. Gerrymandering is very real - and we don't have to rely on the courts to define what is and isn't acceptable. So common sense here please, ok? Now, if you are looking for a correct way of doing things - do some research on some of the anti-gerrymandering bills that have come up in states. They at least have the notion of adding consistency (repeatable results) into the process (i.e. one example is coming up with a mathematical formula to apply rather than using the whims of the controlling party). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Of course you dont care how it was done before TEG, the Dems were doing it before. That you dont see the need to criticize their actions isnt suprising. Just so we're clear, if the Dems do it youre okay with it, but if the GOP tries to do it, the Dems should circumvent the laws. AJ, this thread was meant to discuss the flipant celebratory tone the Dems have when discussing their blatant obstructionist tactics they no doubt got from the national party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Of course you dont care how it was done before TEG, the Dems were doing it before. That you dont see the need to criticize their actions isnt suprising. Just so we're clear, if the Dems do it youre okay with it, but if the GOP tries to do it, the Dems should circumvent the laws. AJ, this thread was meant to discuss the flipant celebratory tone the Dems have when discussing their blatant obstructionist tactics they no doubt got from the national party. Sometimes Kilmer, I worry about you. How can you be such a thickheaded dumbass? Seriously, where did I say it was ok for the DEMS to do it? If anything, you are the one who says its ok for a party to do it - since the other one has in the past Re-read this post and the one from other day, I think you will discover that I am against gerrymandering (cracking and packing), period. Tell you what, I will put it so you understand. GERRYMANDERING IS SICKENING NO MATTER WHAT PARTY DOES IT. Did you understand that? Good. Now please go back to blaming the libs, or the dems, or whatever else gets your rocks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Please show me how this is gerrymandering. Show me the proposed boundries. Redistricting and providing one party an advantage is NOT gerrymandering. Please learn the law and definitions before you make stupid accusations. I don't care how its always been done. That's where you said it. Split hairs, make an argument of moral equivalency and if all else fails resort to name calling and personal attacks. It's your forte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Please show me how this is gerrymandering. Show me the proposed boundries. Redistricting and providing one party an advantage is NOT gerrymandering. Please learn the law and definitions before you make stupid accusations. That's where you said it. Split hairs, make an argument of moral equivalency and if all else fails resort to name calling and personal attacks. It's your forte. Holier than thou now eh? Sure. I though personal attacks were your forte Kilmer? Seriously you need to learn when to give up, when Art is frequently bested, at least he lets the thread die. Or writes a response that is so unintelligible that no one knows what to say :laugh: Answer me this Kilmer, why does the Texas GOP feel the need to redo the districts maps 2 years (and in their 1st year of power) after they accepted the courts version? And if they would have redone maps that would have given the DEMS more seats, would they have pursued it? The answers are easy - the GOP wants more representation, especially now that they are the controlling party. And no, depsite them saying that the new maps better serve the voting practices of the Texas people, if the DEMS would have gained more power (via the new GOP maps) - then the GOP would not have adopted this as a hot button issue. The DEMS would have - and it still would have been wrong. There obvioulsy has to be a better way to redistrict than relying on the whims of the controlling party, doesn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickens Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Look when even the liberal-leaning Daily Show is making fun of you, you have become a national joke. The Texas Dems really are a funny joke. This is hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Only a partisan would defend the democrats’ actions, seems like we have a few of them on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 False bravado now? Why is it that you and other left leaning posters have the need to feel you've "bested" someone? Only one of us called the other a "thickheaded dumbass". If that's how you think you bested me, than celebrate all you want. The Legislature draws the districts. That's the law. The court stepped in with a temporary district plan, but the resposibilty lies with the legislature. Do you feel the courts should draw the districts going forward? State or Federal? Of course the Dems would have to allow Judges to be voted on first, but that's another argument. I'll ask again, do you know their plan was gerrymandering? If so, please provide the proof. If not, what is the problem with the legislature following the law? The standard the Dems are setting both Nationally and now locally is that they want to remain in controll even when the voters choose to boot them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 so do any posters actually think that the TEX cons. plan on drawing up the boundaries in an unbiased way? just curious. or is it just that since they are in power they can do it any way they want-- to the victor go the spoils...? and claim it is not gerrymandering, but just their way of representing how the population has drastically changed in the two years since redistricting occured... the TEX dems did a great job of representing the will of their constituents. that's about it. those who voted for them likely understand the actions they took and why. "The standard the Dems are setting both Nationally and now locally is that they want to remain in controll even when the voters choose to boot them out." should we start talking about FLA 2000 again? a never ending grudge has developed from this shennanigan. the dems prob think that all cons are out to get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 AJ, setting up districts to favor a party is not gerrymandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 let's see the districts first, then come to a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 "AJ, setting up districts to favor a party is not gerrymandering." funny, the definition in my dictionary of gerymandering: to divide a geographic area into voting districts in order to give unfair advantage to one party in elections. From the shape of an election district created while Gerry was governor of Massachusetts. That's straight from Webster's II New Riverside University dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Kilmer, Why the focus on Texas? What vested interest could you possibly have in their local districting? I suspect you have no real reason to care what happens in that state except to try and capitalize on what you deem to be an ignoble act by the Democrats. You use the word "precedent". Are you of the opinion that Republicans have never walked en masse out of a House vote? Just to save me some time on this one regard that question as a set-up. Should you take the bait I'll be forced to cite numerous examples that clearly disprove your assertion that Democrats, by this move, have set a precedent. Now go put your ethics stick away because clearly you have no reason here to point it in the direction of Democrats unless you're prepared to have the other end point at Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 The key word is "unfair". The electorate makeup will dictate that one party will always have an advantage, If it is "unfair" then it becomes gerrymandering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 And the Liberal voice of moral equivalence rears it's ugly head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfchamp1 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 "House redistricting dies with all the other House bills tonight," Republican House Speaker Tom Craddick said.Earlier in the week, Craddick had ordered state troopers to find, arrest and bring the Democrats back to Austin. "He's excited about it? This makes him proud?. This shameful act deserves a prison sentence " - Kilmer17 Arrest them? Prison sentence? Boo Hoo. You didn't get your way. What a bunch of meglomaniac cry babies. Title of thread: "You know why I hate democrats?" I'm not crazy about Democrats but you Republicans sure do scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Whose the crybaby? Those who want the will of the people and the law upheld or those that support the tactics of running and hiding and preventing a vote? If every political body employed this tactic our Govt would shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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