Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Ok, So I was asking myself a question, "Whether he's good or bad, where right now, where does JC rank amongst the post dream team QBs?" I know that we've had some crappy guys in here, but I wanted to see how his stats of 2008 compared to previous years. So here's what I found. This is Jason Campbell's third year as a starter. I remember a third year QB that this town was going gaga over (until an unfortunate head butt, but I digress). Their stats honestly look pretty similar over their first three years starting. Honestly as far as individual seasons for a Redskins QB since 91 goes, I think I'd have to vote: 1) 1999 Brad Johnson. 2) 2005 Mark Brunell 3) 1992 Mark Rypien 4) 1998 Trent Green 5) 2008 Jason Campbell 6) 1996 Gus Ferotte The rest is just a mush of nobodys. Man, I wish we had resigned Trent Green! :doh: But that goes to show that our ownership trouble started before even Dan Snyder took over. But it is kinda eerie that there's another low round QB who's the third stringer right now, who people are pulling for to be the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaSkin Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Interesting. Johnson in '99 was certainly the best, that's why we got rid of him immediately. <sigh> We lost Green during the change in ownership. Sadly not much could've been done. Not sure how Rypien makes it so high given that he had essentially the same number of yards as Campbell this year, the exact same number of TDs but tripple the picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Not sure how Rypien makes it so high given that he had essentially the same number of yards as Campbell this year, the exact same number of TDs but tripple the picks. Because his Y/A is .5 higher? :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunBunch7 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 99' Brad Johnson was definitely the best 05' Mark Brunell was 2nd 98' Trent Green I'd have to bump to 3rd...after the 0-7 start, he rallied us off a 6-3 record down the stretch and set us up for 1999...albeit with BJ instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I also don't see how Rypien was that better than Green or even Campbell. He regressed big time from his previous year in 1991. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Interesting. Johnson in '99 was certainly the best, that's why we got rid of him immediately. <sigh> Eh, we started 6-2 in 2000 but Johnson folded like lawn furniture because mean ol' Danny brought in Jeff George. Because, of course, no good team should have a viable QB backup. Thing is, Jeff never got int until Brad was hurt anyway. Brad folded and went to Tampa. Brad's arm went dead towards the end of 1999. Brad cost himself the job here, THOUGH, I would agree that after 2000, we probably should have tried to keep him as much as possible. But I don't think he wanted to stay. Oh well. --THINKING SKINS-- Did you just plug in the numbers there on a table from pro football reference, have you made a database? I've found the process of developing criteria to use in my QB research difficult. And annoying to try to plug in all the information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I also don't see how Rypien was that better than Green or even Campbell. He regressed big time from his previous year. As I knew he would. That's why I was mad at the trade of Humphries, who I thought would be our guy because Rypien was more of a placeholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSnake84 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I dont think that JC should even be in this list being compared to the top redskins QB we had... All those guys were something special when they were here. Brad Johnson took us to the playoffs, so did Brunell. Trent Green especially should have been kept here. JC shouldnt really even be considered. He's never going to be great, or take us to the playoffs. We got lucky last year that Todd was able to play so well and pull us out of the slump that JC had put us in. Hell, even Joe Gibbs said earlier this year that he had considered benching Campbell, even before he got injured! That should tell you something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 --THINKING SKINS-- Did you just plug in the numbers there on a table from pro football reference, have you made a database? I've found the process of developing criteria to use in my QB research difficult. And annoying to try to plug in all the information Beat me to it. I'd like to know where you got this information from as well as I would like to be able to sort it by different stats then simply a chronological date order like it is now to do some analysis. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I dont think that JC should even be in this list being compared to the top redskins QB we had... All those guys were something special when they were here. Brad Johnson took us to the playoffs, so did Brunell. Trent Green especially should have been kept here.JC shouldnt really even be considered. He's never going to be great, or take us to the playoffs. We got lucky last year that Todd was able to play so well and pull us out of the slump that JC had put us in. Hell, even Joe Gibbs said earlier this year that he had considered benching Campbell, even before he got injured! That should tell you something... No one is comparing Jason to the best Redskin QB's. Thinking Skins simply wanted to check the stats of the QB's we've had here since 1992. I don't read into that what you are but I do agree, Jason doesn't belong on a list of great QB's yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooley4President Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I thought it was pretty cool seeing Campbell's year this year ranked up there, then I realized the QB seasons it beat out and was immediately less excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Honestly as far as individual seasons for a Redskins QB since 91 goes, I think I'd have to vote: 1) 1999 Brad Johnson. 2) 2005 Mark Brunell 3) 1992 Mark Rypien 4) 1998 Trent Green 5) 2008 Jason Campbell 6) 1996 Gus Ferotte The rest is just a mush of nobodys. There is one star in the mix that you did not mention. Mainly because he did nothing for the Skins. Rich Gannon was 2 time ALL-PRO and an MVP who never got a whiff with the Skins. If he was on the team today with the same future ahead, Campbell lovers would have a field day saying how he is a career back up and a never-will-be. He is, without a doubt, the greatest talent at QB that the Skins had since Sonny. Too bad he never got a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Beat me to it. I'd like to know where you got this information from as well as I would like to be able to sort it by different stats then simply a chronological date order like it is now to do some analysis. Thanks This stuff is all at http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1992.htm I go there from time to time to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 I dont think that JC should even be in this list being compared to the top redskins QB we had... All those guys were something special when they were here. Brad Johnson took us to the playoffs, so did Brunell. Trent Green especially should have been kept here.JC shouldnt really even be considered. He's never going to be great, or take us to the playoffs. We got lucky last year that Todd was able to play so well and pull us out of the slump that JC had put us in. Hell, even Joe Gibbs said earlier this year that he had considered benching Campbell, even before he got injured! That should tell you something... Do you think Gus Ferotte is a top Redskins QB? What about Brad Johnson? Green left because of the uncertainty in ownership. Campbell has been a starting QB here. Thats why he was considered. I wanted to look at the different starting QBs this team has had here. Just tell me, where do you rank Campbell? Below George? Below Banks? Below Schuler? I'm just trying to find his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Interesting. Johnson in '99 was certainly the best, that's why we got rid of him immediately. <sigh> We lost Green during the change in ownership. Sadly not much could've been done.Not sure how Rypien makes it so high given that he had essentially the same number of yards as Campbell this year, the exact same number of TDs but tripple the picks. To me, Rypien makes it that high for the mere purpose that he took the team to the playoffs that year. I like to reward playoff seasons with a little more 'umph' than just having a good season. So while I love the emotion that Trent Green gave us in his one season here, it still amounted to a losing year. But Rypien's 1992 year does show that we can be a playoff team without JC throwing 30 TDs like some people were saying (although the league was different then, and had a lot less parity). But we were so freakin close this year. And if you look at JC's previous years, his TD% was higher those years - particularly his first year when he threw 10 TDs in 7 games. So maybe its not a thing of JC being 'scaired' to throw it deep, but maybe again he's being coached against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End2round2sanders Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Cary Conklin Wuerffel John Friez WIN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Do you think Gus Ferotte is a top Redskins QB? What about Brad Johnson? I didn't put Todd Collins on my list because he only made 3 starts. If you look at Jason Campbell's first 3 or 4 starts this year, he put up similar numbers. So I thought it was a bit premature. But his (Collins) stats are impressive. Yeah, I was going to say you have to consider 2007 Collins, but you make a good argument for not doing so. Not saying that I agree with it, because the surrounding circumstances were A LOT different, but it's a defensible position. Johnson's 1999 season unquestionably was the best we've seen around here since Ryp's '91 season. The first 8 games were phenomenal, but he tailed off after that (not nearly to the extent that Campell did). Some people say his arm got tired - there was that pass to Connell against TB in the playoffs where, if it had just a little more zip on it, would have been a TD and put the 'Skins up 20-0, thus game over. Instead, it hung a bit, Lynch was able to get there to pick it off, and that launched TB's comeback. Brunell at #2 in 2005 is accurate - he had some clunkers in there, but he also had a stretch where he was playing as well as any QB in the game, starting with the 4th qtr against Dallas through the SF game. Rypien was really uneven in '92. He had some great games - I remember the game against the Vikings in the regular season where he didn't put up great stats but he practically willed the team to a victory. Then he had the game at Phoenix where he threw two TD passes to Robert Massey in the 4th qtr - the problem being that Massey was a DB for the Cardinals. I think I liked Green's performance in '98 better, but Rypien got the team to the playoffs, so it's fair to put him above Green. I NEVER liked Frerotte as QB. Never. The guy hit his ceiling fast and never really improved. I was ecstatic when they replaced him with Green. So, naturally, I'll rank Campbell ahead of him . I think it's really telling when you look at that list - the 4th best performance in 17 seasons was from a guy who went 6-9 as a starter, and the next two are guys who were part of awful second half meltdowns. And people wonder why the team has experienced so little success over this timespan? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSnake84 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thinking Skins, To me, Campbell ranks above Tony Banks, and all those scrub qbs....he shouldnt be compared to that great list though...not yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It does amaze me that we had a QB that had 23 TDs, 11 INT's and was a young guy, and yet we decided not to keep him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thinking Skins,To me, Campbell ranks above Tony Banks, and all those scrub qbs....he shouldnt be compared to that great list though...not yet Notice that the list doesn't include Theisman, Jurgenson, or Baugh. It doesn't even include Williams. So I'm not calling (or questioning) him a Redskins great QB. I'm wondering where he ranks among the QBs since the 1991 SB. I mean, I dont think Ferotte is a great either, but after his third season, I was estatic thinking that the franchise had turned around and was about to get back into the winning column. Then the next year he hit his head and was never the same :doh: I don't put Ferotte up there either, but I think Campbell's first few years compre pretty well to Ferotte's, to the point that I'd say I'd probably place Campbell as a Redskins QB above Ferotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It does amaze me that we had a QB that had 23 TDs, 11 INT's and was a young guy, and yet we decided not to keep him... I thought Green decided not to stay. Washington offered him a 4 year contract worth 12 million but he went with the Rams. They gave him a 4 year contract worth 16 million plus a 4.5 million signing bonus. It was all about $$$$$$$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Washington offered him a 4 year contract worth 12 million but he went with the Rams. They gave him a 4 year contract worth 16 million plus a 4.5 million signing bonus. It was all about $$$$$$$$$.Washington never really offered him a contract. Casserly was hung up on Johnson. So much so that he gave a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd pick for him. Next season the Skins signed George to a 4 year 18 million contract to back Johnson up. So obviously they had the money for Green, but Casserly just was not high on him. The beginning of the mismanagement of the Skins FO that lasts to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Washington never really offered him a contract. Casserly was hung up on Johnson. So much so that he gave a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd pick for him. Next season the Skins signed George to a 4 year 18 million contract to back Johnson up. So obviously they had the money for Green, but Casserly just was not high on him. The beginning of the mismanagement of the Skins FO that lasts to this day. Nah, thats not all of the story. Green didn't like the uncertainty in ownership here in DC and so he wanted out and as a free agent we couldn't force his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Nah, thats not all of the story. Green didn't like the uncertainty in ownership here in DC and so he wanted out and as a free agent we couldn't force his hand.Yea, the offer was a joke. Casserly is on record as saying he wanted Johnson bad, and paid through the nose to get him. If they had made Green a legit offer, then I would give all the talk of ownership more credence. I think it is smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Washington never really offered him a contract. Casserly was hung up on Johnson. So much so that he gave a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd pick for him. Next season the Skins signed George to a 4 year 18 million contract to back Johnson up. So obviously they had the money for Green, but Casserly just was not high on him. The beginning of the mismanagement of the Skins FO that lasts to this day. According to Sports Illustrated Green was offered a contract. SI is usually a reliable source. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/02/15/rams_green/ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/02/14/green_rams/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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