DCBnG21 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Wondering if anyone has any suggestions here. I'm currently a business tech product owner/Systems Analyst sorta hybrid. I'm finding though, that more and more, people hiring folks like me want you to be able to do some coding as well. So I was thinking out that I'd start with web code (HTML, Javascript - which I already know a little bit of, and can make minor corrections in) and then try to move onto some application code. Does anyone have any suggestions on books, cheap classes, or easy places to get started? Or some forums that are easy on noobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'd check your library to get started. Just about any library nowadays will have books on learning to write HTML, MySQL, stuff like that. A lot of them will also have books for languages like C/C++. The trouble with those languages is that they require a compiler if you want to practice with them. If you get lucky the CD may still be in the back of the book, but the chances are good that somebody's already either jacked it or forgotten to return it. From what I've seen libraries aren't too picky about getting those things back. Alternatively you could look on Borders or Amazon for one of those same books, and if you buy it new it will definitely have the CD. Or I imagine they have some intro to programming classes at a local community college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 HTML is not code. Javascript is ok I guess. Although I don't see many people looking for Javascript developers these days. Get a book like Perl for dummies, if you want to play around for free download java from sun or java.com. Build a few simple programs like hello world. Playing with random coding languages is silly other than to see if you have an aptitude to be a programmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Disclaimer 1: I've read several books on the manual coding of web pages using various tools. I have not actually done so. I'm a pretty bright guy, with, frankly, a talent for absorbing material of this type, using this method. For example, long ago, I taught myself both how to build hardware and how to program, in multiple computer languages, on my own, simply by reading the manuals. OTOH, I'm fully aware that there's a vast difference between somebody who's read the books, even someone like myself with a talent for things like that, and someone who's actually done it. I really, really, bet you that there are several people, here on ES, who've actually done it. Professionally. (Or at least close to it.) I'll give you my opinion. But I bet you're going to get advice, later, that's better than mine. Disclaimer #2: Frankly, my gut tells me that there are very, very, few people who actually develop web pages by sitting down and manually typing HTML tags and PHP scripts. I'm willing to bet that almost everything is done by using web development tools, where the tool generates the HTML. And, while I wouldn't be surprised is the ability to manually read and generate HTML might occasionally be useful for debugging the code generated from such tools, I feel obligated to warn you that you may be about to do the equivalent of teaching yourself how to manually write COBOL. ------ I can tell you that there are a LOT of books out there on HTML. One that I suspect would be a good reference is this one. (I don't know if that's a good "how to" book. More of a book of specifications. But, I assume that professional writers occasionally need a dictionary, too.) -------- Not strictly on HTML: There are several books covering what's sometimes referred to as "LAMP": (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP). PHP is a programming language that runs on a web server (typically an Apache web server, running on Linux). When the server sees the PHP code, it runs the program, and the program "outputs" HTML, which the web server delivers to the client. The client sees an HTML web page, even though the web page, itself, never existed, but was created by the PHP. PHP is capable of accessing data in several kinds of databases, often MySQL databases. As an example, ExtremeSkins is a bunch of PHP scripts. I think it accesses a MySQL database, on a Linux server. One nice thing about these books is that you can run all of the server-side software (the web server, PHP engine, and database) on a single system (which is also the "client".) (Which doesn't have to be Linux. All of the software has Windows versions, as well.) Seems to me, it should be relatively easy to set up your "classroom" on a single system. Many of these books are written more like textbooks, taking a student through installing the software on their system, then writing their own web pages, and making those pages progressively more and more complex, adding new capabilities with each step. A book that's geared towards the student on a single system is this one. One that I think explains things better (but which isn't targeted so much on ease of installation. Might be a lot tougher for you to get a test system running.) is this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Disclaimer 1: I've read several books on the manual coding of web pages using various tools. I have not actually done so. I'm a pretty bright guy, with, frankly, a talent for absorbing material of this type, using this method. For example, long ago, I taught myself both how to build hardware and how to program, in multiple computer languages, on my own, simply by reading the manuals. OTOH, I'm fully aware that there's a vast difference between somebody who's read the books, even someone like myself with a talent for things like that, and someone who's actually done it. I really, really, bet you that there are several people, here on ES, who've actually done it. Professionally. (Or at least close to it.) I'll give you my opinion. But I bet you're going to get advice, later, that's better than mine. Disclaimer #2: Frankly, my gut tells me that there are very, very, few people who actually develop web pages by sitting down and manually typing HTML tags and PHP scripts. I'm willing to bet that almost everything is done by using web development tools, where the tool generates the HTML. And, while I wouldn't be surprised is the ability to manually read and generate HTML might occasionally be useful for debugging the code generated from such tools, I feel obligated to warn you that you may be about to do the equivalent of teaching yourself how to manually write COBOL. ------ I can tell you that there are a LOT of books out there on HTML. One that I suspect would be a good reference is this one. (I don't know if that's a good "how to" book. More of a book of specifications. But, I assume that professional writers occasionally need a dictionary, too.) -------- Not strictly on HTML: There are several books covering what's sometimes referred to as "LAMP": (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP). PHP is a programming language that runs on a web server (typically an Apache web server, running on Linux). When the server sees the PHP code, it runs the program, and the program "outputs" HTML, which the web server delivers to the client. The client sees an HTML web page, even though the web page, itself, never existed, but was created by the PHP. PHP is capable of accessing data in several kinds of databases, often MySQL databases. As an example, ExtremeSkins is a bunch of PHP scripts. I think it accesses a MySQL database, on a Linux server. One nice thing about these books is that you can run all of the server-side software (the web server, PHP engine, and database) on a single system (which is also the "client".) (Which doesn't have to be Linux. All of the software has Windows versions, as well.) Seems to me, it should be relatively easy to set up your "classroom" on a single system. Many of these books are written more like textbooks, taking a student through installing the software on their system, then writing their own web pages, and making those pages progressively more and more complex, adding new capabilities with each step. A book that's geared towards the student on a single system is this one. One that I think explains things better (but which isn't targeted so much on ease of installation. Might be a lot tougher for you to get a test system running.) is this one. Larry, pretty well thought out post. What the OP can best take from this post is...it's kind of silly just to pick a random language and start playing with it. You either have the ability to write code or you don't. The cheapest way is to download java and start writing some simple programs. I have been a coder most of my life, and now own an IT services business. What can best be pulled out of your post is...you are probably correct most people will use a tool to build the initial HTML pages, or use a prebuilt application like extremeskins does. In short, a tool NEVER builds things exactly like you want them. The maintenance coder goes in and modifies whatever needs to be modified to make it work to their specifications. So if I am helping extremskins, I might need to know html, javascript, php, mysql, unix, perl...plus I might need to be able to do some graphics in photoshop, etc. Some web applications are built 100% in Windows, so I might need to learn html, .net, visual basic, etc. Some applications aren't web based, so i may want to write Java, C++, Visual Basic, Visual C++. Maybe I am writing Macro's for Excel?? Whatever the case, the only thing the OP will learn from writing code, is whether they are a coder at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Start with the language-independent concepts of programming, such as variables, decisions, looping, data structures. Then pick an language/environment with a low learning curve to practice in. You may find http://www.w3schools.com/ useful for walking you through some of the basic concepts. Check out the javascript tutorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptChaos86 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I actually went to school for computer science and learned alot of the programming languages. And there are alot of books and online tutorials that will be a big help. Ive pretty much forgotten most of the stuff i learned in school now, but there is plenty of resources out there to help you learn. Good luck dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 CS major here. I don't know a whole lot about programming for the Web, but from what I have heard I believe Larry is correct when he talks about the tools pretty much taking over everything and relatively few people writing their own HTML/Javascript from scratch. Doing complex stuff Javascript turns into a huge mess quickly, as it is a relatively simple scripting language. There's lots of "meta tools" like AJAX and templates that handle all that stuff for you. But for server-side stuff, you will still have to write your own code. You need server-side code if you want to do something like generate pages on the fly, particularly if you want to access a database. One language you might want to look into is PHP. I had some brief experience with it, wouldn't seem that hard to learn. You can also integrate it into your web pages nicely, by simply taking the HTML pages and inserting PHP tags. A quick google search turns up this http://www.w3schools.com/PHP/DEfaULT.asP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 CS major here. Doing complex stuff Javascript turns into a huge mess quickly, As someone who has written many pieces of complex functionality in javascript, I would have to say that this doesn't apply to JS any more than it does to any other programming language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselpower44 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you're looking past webcode you can start off with a something like python. I picked up a book off of amazon and started learning it myself. Although I already had a lot of experience with html/php and webpages. I also did game scripting that involved c/c++. I never took any classes. Pretty much everything I have done has been me starting out by copying parts of code/scripts from somewhere else and modifying them. Eventually I knew enough where I was able to write my own. Probably not the smartest way to learn but I've always gotten by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBnG21 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks guys - yeah, I'm not looking to get to deep into one language. I have to play around modifying basic HTML and Javascript for my job now, but I just want to get somewhat independent on the web side and play with some other stuff, write a few small apps on my own, just to have more direct experience. I figure that if I'm going to get intensly into something, it's because somebody is going to be paying me to do so. It does seem somewhat pointless to really learn something unless there is a purpose behind it as it seems like stuff changes all the time. Thank you for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 AVOID THE DUMMYBOOKS.. I'm telling you they suck. I've tried them and hated them.. I'm the type of guy who learns by doing. I struggle more than anyone I've ever met, reading something and then trying to apply it.. it just doesn't work for me.. A few years ago, a friend of mine gave me a set of Nutshell books (HTML, Perl, C++) and they worked great. They explained things in a way that I understood them, and I was able to apply the knowledge immediately. So if your thinking HTML, go find yourself a copy of HTML in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Should be able to nab it cheap from Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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