mcarey032 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 On the sports reporters on 980.they were interviewing George Michael regarding his situation on the Redskins Report and he told the story that Al Saunders was the one who heavily advised Joe Gibbs to take the second time out during the Buffalo game. So Joe Gibbs took all the blame for the advice that his offensive coordinator provided. Everyone said that Joe Gibbs was past his prime and that he shouldn't be coaching anymore. He could have said that he received advice, but he took all the heat for it. What would have Zorn done in that situation I wonder? I guess it is just a contrast to how Zorn would call people out, I hope that Zorn is learning his lesson about calling people out in public. What are your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy&Gold4Ever Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Wow, I never heard that about Saunders recommending calling the 2nd timeout. Yet another example of Gibbs' class that he never tipped off that it wasn't solely his idea. Regardless, as HC, he makes final decision, and he decided to take Al's advice. In time, I think Zorn will learn to handle the situation in the same way Gibbs did: that it was his decision to do it, and thus it's his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikie Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 gibbs was the epitome of class and character... I still can't believe NO ONE on our staff was losing a lung during that moment, screaming for gibbs not to do it.. how no one knew that rule was horrible.. far as zorn, going by this season, seems he definitely would have outed whoever recommended such a thing, can only hope by next season this is one of the rookie mistakes he learns from and corrects.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RypienUmApart Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Idc who you are. If you're an NFL coach who gets paid millions to lead a team you should know all the rules of the game no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Idc who you are. If you're an NFL coach who gets paid millions to lead a team you should know all the rules of the game no matter what. people will make mistakes no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RypienUmApart Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 people will make mistakes no matter what I know this. But 2 timeouts in a row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawaiianTime Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I don't know. What would Vinny and Danny say? Oh, I know, "It's not the plays, the players need to execute better." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 He would have said that he took the advice and didn't know about that rule. Also, saying Saunders did would not have taken the heat off of him because HE STILL DIDN'T KNOW and thus did not put his foot down. Nothing annoys me more than the obfuscation of the truth. It's cowardice, not class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 The problem I had with Gibbs taking the second timeout was not necessarily that he didn't know the rules, but that by trying the freeze the kicker twice, what he was doing was not displaying the class that we've come to associate Gibbs with, but poor sportsmanship. Freezing the kicker once before the ball is snapped is considered something long part of the game. Last season it seemed that coaches were taking it to an extreme by waiting just before the snap, so the call wouldn't be made a lot of times until the ball was in the air. I'm not sure if, in light of the Taylor tragedy, Gibbs was trying to win this particular game at all costs, but whatever the case, regardless of whether he made the decision himself or whether he was listening to someone else like Saunders, it was not one of his finer moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C26 Run Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Your comparing that to Zorn calling out players. Gibbs is a Redskins legend who allowed Saunders to give him advice that was bad. Saunders was the active coach that should've known that rule. Gibbs took the advice, and took the bullets like any great HC would do. He then retired. JZ called out something he saw. Whether right or wrong, that is his right. He lit a fire under a situation, and he came better than I thought. Portis was wrong to respond through the media and as it turned out, Portis misunderstood everything. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know this. But 2 timeouts in a row? Big Ben and McNabb both didn't know about there being only one overtime to win a game.These things happen. Gibbs is still to blame for doing it, but it's not like anyone else on the staff seems to have spoken out before he did it that it wasn't a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 I guess what I am saying is that Gibbs took heat for something and he trusted Al Saunders to advise him. I understand you can say that he should have known the rule, but he was trusting his associate head coach to know a rule and was trusting his advice. I think that it is quite clear the reason that Al Saunders isn't here this year and that situation was the tip of the iceberg, yet we never heard Gibbs complain or say that it was Al Saunders fault. I guess where I was trying to draw the comparison is that Jim Zorn likes to call out players and also put the blame on an associate/assistant/position coach (stump mitchell and sherman smith). I think that Zorn is learning. I would just wish that things don't his way that he would own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Gibbs should have taken the blame. He was the head coach and it was his decision, no matter who's advice it was. He should have known the rules, period. Zorn would, if I had to guess, have called that person out BUT also manned up and said it was his responsibility to know the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I guess what I am saying is that Gibbs took heat for something and he trusted Al Saunders to advise him. I understand you can say that he should have known the rule, but he was trusting his associate head coach to know a rule and was trusting his advice. I think that it is quite clear the reason that Al Saunders isn't here this year and that situation was the tip of the iceberg, yet we never heard Gibbs complain or say that it was Al Saunders fault. I guess where I was trying to draw the comparison is that Jim Zorn likes to call out players and also put the blame on an associate/assistant/position coach (stump mitchell and sherman smith). I think that Zorn is learning. I would just wish that things don't his way that he would own them. So what should Zorn take heat for? That his offensive line can't block? That his QB can't make all the reads? That his receivers run bad routes? That Santana Moss shined his shoes and caused a penalty? That Portis called out his offensive line to start the season, and his coach to end the season? Zorn's offense is as exciting as Gibbs offense. He is running a Gibbs built team and it shows. He irritates me at times, but Gibbs II irritated me as well. Who cares about the Zorn/Gibbs comparison. All I care about is the front office learns how to build a team that compete year in and year out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know this. But 2 timeouts in a row? I'd say more people in the NFL didn't know that rule, than didn't know about ties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I don't know. What would Vinny and Danny say? Oh, I know, "It's not the plays, the players need to execute better." I see your crass, but this issue was much maligned on ES, especially for the game (and event that occured prior to the game) that it occured in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 So what should Zorn take heat for? That his offensive line can't block? That his QB can't make all the reads? That his receivers run bad routes? That Santana Moss shined his shoes and caused a penalty? That Portis called out his offensive line to start the season, and his coach to end the season? Zorn's offense is as exciting as Gibbs offense. He is running a Gibbs built team and it shows. He irritates me at times, but Gibbs II irritated me as well. Who cares about the Zorn/Gibbs comparison. All I care about is the front office learns how to build a team that compete year in and year out. How about some terrible playcalling on his part instead of trying to say execution and saying that a player missed this read or assignment. I know am not trying to defend the players because yes they bare much of the blame for their performance, but some of the playcalling has been downright bad the last few games. What about in the Bengals game where Portis doesn't even see the ball once out of the three times that we had the ball down at the goal line? What about his inability to adjust? I am just saying that I thought that it was pretty low of him after that ravens game to say that stump mitchell was the one who decided who went in out of the game when everyone knows who made the decision. Just own it is what I am saying. This was just a comparison topic. I will say that I agree that we should obviously biuld an offensive line. I can't believe that we didn't do that while Coach Gibbs was here. I guess he just wanted to see if he could win a Super Bowl again fast and then retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 This was just a comparison topic. I will say that I agree that we should obviously biuld an offensive line. I can't believe that we didn't do that while Coach Gibbs was here. I guess he just wanted to see if he could win a Super Bowl again fast and then retire. Joe miscalculated. His trading of draft picks for veterans, trading up routinely in the draft and aggressiveness in free agency was 180 degrees wrong as an approach to roster building. He realized it after the sad 2006 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know this. But 2 timeouts in a row? You have to consider the circumstance of being in front of 90,000 people at the end of an important game with very little time to make decisions, and compound that with all they went through during the week. I know I'd make some stupid decisions like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know this. But 2 timeouts in a row? I know I'm the only one, but I give the entire team a pass for everything that happened in that Buffalo game. From the 10 men thing to the 2 time outs, to the uninspired play, everything. It's just impossible to think that anybody was in their right frame of mind for the entire thing, with the events that preceded it. I'm in the minority on that, if not the only one, but I believe that human nature is human nature, and lack of mental fatigue has a funny way of finding its way into the spotlight. As for Zorn, I actually think he would do the same thing. Honestly. And if he didn't, Dan should fire him on the spot before he leaves the stadium. Because the buck stops with the head coach. If you don't realize that, then there is no help for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 I know I'm the only one, but I give the entire team a pass for everything that happened in that Buffalo game. From the 10 men thing to the 2 time outs, to the uninspired play, everything. It's just impossible to think that anybody was in their right frame of mind for the entire thing, with the events that preceded it.I'm in the minority on that, if not the only one, but I believe that human nature is human nature, and lack of mental fatigue has a funny way of finding its way into the spotlight. As for Zorn, I actually think he would do the same thing. Honestly. And if he didn't, Dan should fire him on the spot before he leaves the stadium. Because the buck stops with the head coach. If you don't realize that, then there is no help for you. I 100% agree with you. I guess what I was shocked at was the character of Joe Gibbs not selling out his O-Coordinator which would have been very easy to do at that point, and telling the media it was his fault. To me it shows the class that Joe Gibbs had in airing his dirty laundry out in public and how he handled this team and still made the playoffs despite having that mistake for all the world to see. A real class guy and a tribute to his character. I always knew that he was one of the greatest but this goes further to edify his legend in my mind and the minds of many Redskins fans. The comparison for me with Zorn was when he benched Portis, he should have just said that I benched him because I felt that his missing practice impacted him. That is what he should have said instead of Stump Mitchell felt that it was best along with Sherman Smith. It was like saying that Donovan McNabb was benched by his position coach. If that actually happened that way, then Andy Reid should be fired because that is not how you handle your players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechalkoutlines Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 OK... so, since Zorn's so notorious for calling out his players and staff, let's go over what exactly has gotten him this reputation. Training Camp: Zorn calls out DT and MK for not being conditioned enough to survive training camp. Week 14? - Zorn says that Ladell Betts was more prepared to handle passing routes than Portis was, in a situation where the team is behind, trying to pass their way back into it. Portis freaks out. Can you name another? Even when he benched Jansen, Zorn freely admitted he made the decision to go with Heyer for better pass protection. That area was our biggest question mark that turned into our biggest weakness, and Zorn knew it before the year started. I've watched a good amount of Zorn pressers since he's taken the job. His post-game interviews can involve a lot of critique, but most of it is positive. Zorn doesn't "call his players out," like many accuse him of doing. He's a candid guy, so reporters and fans that don't like him and want to brew chaos around here will take his words out of context. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkRascadizzle Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 He'd probably do what most people would say which is something along the lines of "My coaching staff and I thought it was in our best interest" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972FAN Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 On the sports reporters on 980.they were interviewing George Michael regarding his situation on the Redskins Report and he told the story that Al Saunders was the one who heavily advised Joe Gibbs to take the second time out during the Buffalo game. So Joe Gibbs took all the blame for the advice that his offensive coordinator provided. Everyone said that Joe Gibbs was past his prime and that he shouldn't be coaching anymore. He could have said that he received advice, but he took all the heat for it. What would have Zorn done in that situation I wonder? I guess it is just a contrast to how Zorn would call people out, I hope that Zorn is learning his lesson about calling people out in public. What are your thoughts on this? How about its a rookie coach still in the learning process, JOE GIBBS is a HOF coach and he made decisions like a EXPERIENCED Seasoned coach. There's know comparing the two. Come back in 10 years if Zorn is still coaching than compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I'd be willing to bet Jim Zorn would have told Al Saunders he'll be making the decision. The whole scenario would never have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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