Hands up, I was wrong. JC may well just never be "the man."

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I've been a defender of Jason Campbell from day one.

Like many, I saw the potential that Coach Gibbs saw in him, to move up and make sure we drafted him as our future franchise QB. Finally someone to solidify the most important position on any team. And a level headed, real nice young man.

But, 4 years in, when your still talking about unfulfilled potential, there comes a time when even the most ardent supporters of JC, of which I've been one, have to step back from searching for excuses and take a long hard look at where he actually is at as a pro QB.

Jason Campbell is a good NFL QB. But the chances are, he'll never be a great one. And we can make all the excuses we want for him, about a poor, ageing O-line, receivers dropping passes, Coach Z's play calling etc ad nauseam. All of which are valid points. But ultimately, we have to face facts. If Campbell were as good a player as his supporters claim, he would be stepping up, four years in, even without having the top class personnel around him, and putting this team on his shoulders and finding ways to get it done.

Instead, the same, continued mistakes he's shown in 3 different offenses here continue to haunt him on a recurring basis. Not identifying receivers, slow reads, and above all, a slow release. Blame the line as much as you want, hell, I have, but even today when he had time, his slow release and thought process costs him and us dear. Yes, he had receivers make drops against the Giants. But what about the under thrown interception, that for a real good NFL QB, would of been 6 points? Or the 4/5 occasions we came up short of the marker on third downs? The recievers naturally have to take some blame here, but if their that far short, look across the darn field for someone who isn't. But Jason's blamed the line already, and a lack of time, so i guess we'll find an excuse for that too.

Last season, what happened when Todd Collins came in to turn around a season that was all but done?

And I'm not for one minute calling for TC to step in now, but this was a man who'd not thrown an NFL pass in 10 years..... 10 FREAKING YEARS, but he came in, released the ball QUICK, and we started moving the ball and taking shots down field with success. Now claim that was a symptom of knowing Al Saunders scheme all you want, and to a large extent that's true, but the fact remains he did what you have to do to succeed at the position in this League. NOT hang onto the freaking ball for an age. And he'd not had any "real time" playing time in 10 years.

I'm not blaming Jason for the Redskins current position. It's a team game, and were not at the top level in a number of positions if were brutally honest. It wasn't his fault solely we lost today.

But when the same continued personal mistakes continue to haunt him 4 years in, in 3 different systems, there comes a time, however much you like the guy, when you have to stop making excuses and ask "Is this really the future of this team? Do we REALLY want to sling $20 million bucks or so his way this off-season in the hope that he will be the franchise QB we crave?"

I'm at the point, as much as I crave for Jason to be that man, that I have to hold my hands up and admit my blind faith has maybe been misguided, and the answer is sadly no. Something tells me, although they naturally aren't going to admit it at this stage of the season, the Z-Man and his staff may be coming to the same conclusion in the off-season too.

No doubt I'll get ripped by the Campbell apologists, but maybe's it's time you should take a long hard look at #17 too.

Hail.

[brianforster]

I was ready to say that Campbell was the problem untill the last time we had the ball today. We were down 2 scores and the giants were only rushing 4 and Campbell was still getting torn apart by that giants d-line.

The problem is our o-line, plain and simple.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I was ready to say that Campbell was the problem untill the last time we had the ball today. We were down 2 scores and the giants were only rushing 4 and Campbell was still getting torn apart by that giants d-line.

The problem is our o-line, plain and simple.

It's not simple and you refuted your own argument in the beginning of your post. Campbell has looked bad even when given time.

[MEANDWARF]

Good qbs can't overcome an aging ol, wr dropped passes or questionable play calling. But great qbs can.

[jthor99]

In October, we wanted to pay the man, and now we don't know if he is "the man".

To many panic buttons being pushed IMO. I'm willing to see how well this guy develops in Zorn's offense after this year. Everybody wants results now (and sure I do too), but realistically this is a night and day offense from what Jason learned under Saunders/Gibbs.

I'm willling to see how he devlops with Malcom and Devin before I simply write the guy off. Like I said what a month and half can do. That's not enough to judge a QB in a brand new scheme. Neither is an entire season

[desioreo87]

You are not wrong.

I'm about to give up on you people.

Can NO ONE see that JC is improving and has improved tremendously this year?

If he has improved this much under JZ in one year, im super anxious to see how he performs next year under another full summer of Zorn tutelage. It would be a big ****ing mistake to give up on JC now.

What were the 3 biggest criticisms on JC?

-turnovers

-locking on to the first man

-winning games in the 4th

What has JC improved on this year?

-turnovers

-going through his progressions, albeit not as fast as we would like but he is getting better and better

-he has won us games in the 4th quarter and has consistently kept us in games.

I think JC gets at least one more year. If he doesn't improve than we look other places.

I just want to stop this ridiculous QB carousel in DC and am fully willing to give JC one more year to improve and prove that he is the guy. Becuase if he is we are set for 10 years.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

In October, we wanted to pay the man, and now we don't know if he is "the man".

To many panic buttons being pushed IMO. I'm willing to see how well this guy develops in Zorn's offense after this year. Everybody wants results now (and sure I do too), but realistically this is a night and day offense from what Jason learned under Saunders/Gibbs.

I'm willling to see how he devlops with Malcom and Devin before I simply write the guy off. Like I said what a month and half can do. That's not enough to judge a QB in a brand new scheme. Neither is an entire season

I get what you are saying, I really do. And somewhat agree.

I understand it's a completely diffent system, etc. At the same time however, let me give you an analogy:

If I drive a car and get into multiple accidents because I'm a ****ty driver and I'm always rearending the people in front of me because I can't hit the brakes in time (or whatever)...and then you give me an SUV and I keep getting in the same accidents for the same reasons... don't you take my damn keys away and say I can't drive?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

In October, we wanted to pay the man, and now we don't know if he is "the man".

To many panic buttons being pushed IMO. I'm willing to see how well this guy develops in Zorn's offense after this year. Everybody wants results now (and sure I do too), but realistically this is a night and day offense from what Jason learned under Saunders/Gibbs.

I'm willling to see how he devlops with Malcom and Devin before I simply write the guy off. Like I said what a month and half can do. That's not enough to judge a QB in a brand new scheme. Neither is an entire season

If those same basic mistakes weren't recurring over 4 years in 3 different schemes, NOT just in Zorn's offense, I'd be with you all the way. As the crux of my thread alluded to, sadly, they are, and I'm at the point when I'm past making excuses for him. There comes a point when a veteran QB needs to step up and accept his part in the failings.

Hail.

[desioreo87]

I get what you are saying, I really do. And somewhat agree.

I understand it's a completely diffent system, etc. At the same time however, let me give you an analogy:

If I drive a car and get into multiple accidents because I'm a ****ty driver and I'm always rearending the people in front of me because I can't hit the brakes in time (or whatever)...and then you give me an SUV and I keep getting in the same accidents for the same reasons... don't you take my damn keys away and say I can't drive?

Maybe the worst analogy/metaphor ever. JC has proved he can win games and that he has improved a lot since last year. What a ****ty metaphor.

he has shown on more than one occasion that he "can drive the car". In fact, he very rarely 'gets into accidents' cause he plays smart.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Maybe the worst analogy/metaphor ever. JC has proved he can win games and that he has improved a lot since last year. What a ****ty metaphor.

he has shown on more than one occasion that he "can drive the car". In fact, he very rarely 'gets into accidents' cause he plays smart.

What? Did you start watching Skins games this year? What is your definition of playing smart? When have you ever felt that Campbell has really been a consistent "field general" as opposed to a "game manager". How many 4th quarter comebacks has he lead as opposed to sitting on a lead? Some of that is coaching - some of it is Campbell.

I agree Campbell has made improvement - but has it been to where it should be given his time? I don't think so.

[Freezer]

Ok How many years has JC been in the NFL? How many DIFFERENT offenses has he learned? How many Coaches has he learned from? How many more times can we change a system for a talented group of players like we have on the offensive side of the ball? The revolving coaching door needs to stop FIRST. I do not expect anything from this team this year I was not impressed by hiring Zorn and i am still not impressed. The problem starts at the top I think Zorn needs to NOT call plays and concentrate on actually managing the team.

I agree the 4 yard plays when we need 6 and all the crap plays that are called are anboying as well as the oline's issues but what is everyone expecting from this team this year? If you thought they would be in Tampa at the end of the season you need serious help. We lack experience at the coaching position thats where we fail first and foremost. Zorn needs to get a clue and yes Jason needs to as well staring down a screen that was busted from the start then throwing the ball into it thinking it was going to stick to someone isn't going to help our chances anywhere. Our offense is dysfunctional right now and that dysfunction needs to be addressed. I am sick of losing to teams we chould just beat the hell out of but our defense being on the field for more than half of the game is not helping our offense needs to sustain drives and that isn't going to happen until Zorn pulls his head out of his butt and calls the right plays or gives up the play calling to someone more talented.

[Freezer]

Oh and one more thing look who Jason studied under... BRUNELL..... hence the hold the ball until you hit the ground or throw some crappy pass that gets picked.. I think by this time next year he stiull sucks ass its time to move on..

[RocketCitySkins]

What? Did you start watching Skins games this year? What is your definition of playing smart? When have you ever felt that Campbell has really been a consistent "field general" as opposed to a "game manager". How many 4th quarter comebacks has he lead as opposed to sitting on a lead? Some of that is coaching - some of it is Campbell.

I agree Campbell has made improvement - but has it been to where it should be given his time? I don't think so.

Five this year. I listed the games and the plays in another thread.

And even though we lost to the Rams, it was thru no fault of JC's.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Ok How many years has JC been in the NFL? How many DIFFERENT offenses has he learned? How many Coaches has he learned from? How many more times can we change a system for a talented group of players like we have on the offensive side of the ball?

At what point does this stop being a serious excuse?

[CRAZYHORSE19682003]

The problem here is that Jason Campbell is in the last year of his rookie contract, so what do you do with him? Anything more than a non guaranteed league minimum deal loaded with incentives would be a huge mistake. Jason Campbell has parlayed "Potential" into an NFL career without ever having produced at any level. In his defense the O-line play has been suspect, but it was suspect last year until Todd Collins came in, than poof they played like all pro-s. Hummmmm why would that be?

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Five this year. I listed the games and the plays in another thread.

And even though we lost to the Rams, it was thru no fault of JC's.

I'd like to see it, what's the link?

[Santana_89]

And we can make all the excuses we want for him, about a poor, ageing O-line, receivers dropping passes, Coach Z's play calling etc ad nauseam. All of which are valid points. But ultimately, we have to face facts. If Campbell were as good a player as his supporters claim, he would be stepping up, four years in, even without having the top class personnel around him, and putting this team on his shoulders and finding ways to get it done.

Exactly your QB is supposed to be a playmaker , sometimes a game manager but that's ALL Campbell ever does manage games. Pop in a dvd of a game last year he is STILL the same QB ..playing not to lose and make mistakes. So if he can NOT CONSISTENTLY make progressions how they heck is Zorn supposed to feel comfortable opening up the playbook...sounds familiar doesn't it.

But when the same continued personal mistakes continue to haunt him 4 years in, in 3 different systems, there comes a time, however much you like the guy, when you have to stop making excuses and ask "Is this really the future of this team? Do we REALLY want to sling $20 million bucks or so his way this off-season in the hope that he will be the franchise QB we crave?"

:applause: JC is NOT a ROOKIE that needs to be coddled anymore. He really NEEDS to take it upon himself to STEP UP his GAME. Or else those boo birds will get louder and louder at the stadiums and in the media. The same QB controversy that afforded him the starting QB job will be the same controversy that sees him BENCHED possibly DEMOTED.

As far as his upcoming contract extension --- DON'T GIVE UP a FRANCHISE QB contract for him. He NEEDS to EARN that.

[RocketCitySkins]

At what point does this stop being a serious excuse?

For me, the end of next year. JC will have played two full years under the same coach and the same system. And I'm probably the longest running JC fan here having watched him play 8 years.

Unless every game is like the Steelers game with 7 sacks and 5 after the play hits, there will be no more excuses. And if every game is like the Steelers game I hope he gets the hell away from Washington.

[RocketCitySkins]

I'd like to see it, what's the link?

http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=272988&page=9

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The problem here is that Jason Campbell is in the last year of his rookie contract, so what do you do with him? Anything more than a non guaranteed league minimum deal loaded with incentives would be a huge mistake. Jason Campbell has parlayed "Potential" into an NFL career without ever having produced at any level. In his defense the O-line play has been suspect, but it was suspect last year until Todd Collins came in, than poof they played like all pro-s. Hummmmm why would that be?

That's something that REALLY worries me. If Danny Boy and his lil' lap dog Vinny C throw him the big bucks because they've invested 4 years in him already and refuse to be proved wrong.

(And the point about the stretch run last year under TC is very pertinent to the apologists arguments, as I made in the OP.).

Hail.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

For me, the end of next year. JC will have played two full years under the same coach and the same system. And I'm probably the longest running JC fan here having watched him play 8 years.

Unless every game is like the Steelers game with 7 sacks and 5 after the play hits, there will be no more excuses. And if every game is like the Steelers game I hope he gets the hell away from Washington.

What do we do to resign him? What do we offer that's not insane...and not to cheap for Campbell. We've got ourselves in a mess.

Shut your mouth man, I can't take any more heartbreak this year.

Don't get me wrong - I want Campbell to succeed. I want him to take that next step. I've been a long-time Campbell supporter - just hoping he, and we, take that next step.

[CRAZYHORSE19682003]

Ok How many years has JC been in the NFL? How many DIFFERENT offenses has he learned? How many Coaches has he learned from? How many more times can we change a system for a talented group of players like we have on the offensive side of the ball? .

Sir meet Jason Campbell, coach killer! Lets go back to his college days, four different offensive coordinators in four years, in the pros three different coordinators in four years. What is the common denominator here? Nobody can get Jason Campbell to play at a high level. Sure he will show flashes of potential but that's all that is there, smoke and mirrors but no substance. For all the Jason Campbell apologists out there, what you are expecting any sane person to believe is that seven different coaches, people who have enjoyed a lot of success with other quarterbacks couldn't make it work with Jason Campbell? That doesn't wash gentleman, at some point you have to point out the obvious Jason Campbell is not an NFL QB, not even a backup QB, Todd Collins a career journeyman backup came in after not playing for a decade and played better than Jason Campbell ever has! That is FACT not opinion.

[kwitt]

I will go on record and avow that I will remain on board the SS Campbell. If this ship is truly sinking then I am going down with it.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

http://extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=272988&page=9

Ok, let me rephrase, Campbell needs to start having 4th quarter comebacks against good teams.

And three of those games should haven't have needed 4th quarter comebacks.

[MonkFan8]

I will go on record and avow that I will remain on board the SS Campbell. If this ship is truly sinking then I am going down with it.

Don't be silly. What's to like about a QB with a passer rating of above 90, and one of the top 4th quarter passer ratings in the league, who also doesn't turn the ball over?

It's not easy to play the quarterback position with a shoddy O-line and a receiving corp full of #2-3 receivers.