Where Was the 12th Man Today???

[Godfather151981]

Well, I was very disappointed by the number of seats that were vacant. It was so terrible being 8 rows from the visitor bench and being mocked by Giant fans and players. I don't want to complain about this but it seemed very evident to me that something is definitely not going right with this franchise when there are so many other fans at Fedex. I made the most of it though and was yelling for the skins till the 60 minute mark of the game. HAIL!

I've said this before, and I'll probably say it again. We have a huge problem not only in DC, but in this region when it comes to sports (Ravens, O's, Nats, Wizards, and Caps all have the same issues). A lot of people move here from other areas, and while most of them love living here most of them don't stop rooting for their old hometown teams when they get here. That said, I don't want people to fear for their safety if their favorite team comes to FedEx Field to play the Redskins. But I do want them to think twice about whether or not they want to endure three hours of taunting from Redskin fans. Instead, not only do they come into our stadium and feel right at home, but Redskin fans are the ones thinking twice about whether or not they want to endure three hours of taunting from visiting fans. That's embarrassing folks, really embarrassing. As an Oriole fan, I see the same thing at Camden Yards. A few years ago I was at a game against Texas and the people sitting behind me were in a season ticket package. They were saying that they always sold their Yankee/Red Sox tickets at a huge profit not for the money, but because they don't like how they're treated by the NY/Boston fans. Again, that's really embarrassing. I've bought tickets to various Oriole and Skins games (before I was a STH) just to ensure that those two seats didn't go to Eagle/Cowboy/Yankee/Red Sox fans. The Nats see this problem with the Mets and Phillies (and the Red Sox in 2009), and the Caps with the Penguins and Flyers. One way or the other, it needs to stop.

[hail2skins]

In theory, you're right and I agree. But the question is which 20K seats do you cut out? I sit in the cave; those seats were all added well after the stadium was built, and I'll tell you that all of the people that sit there are die-hards. But if you cut those seats out, that won't do any good in getting rid of the opposing fans. The casual fans are the ones that are selling their seats, and if you cut out the wrong people not only will the opposing fans' numbers not shrink, but the Skins fans numbers will. I've long advocated revoking the tickets of people that consistantly have visiting fans in their seats. If they can scan the crowd with cameras and revoke the seats of people that misbehave, they can do the same if someone consistantly has opposing fans in their seats. (If it happens once or twice that's fine, but there are people out there that sell their tickets every week to visiting fans at a huge profit.)

Well, the club level at the stadium is probably too big at 15K seats, but I have a feeling it was designed that way initially to allow the Skins to charge somewhat premium prices (back then $100-200/game, depending on the relation to midfield) and satisfy what was then demand from folks who complained they were never able to get seats at RFK. Right now, the prices are well inflated from back then, so I can see a lot of those seats being corporate and either sold/given away to whoever or sit empty.

But then the non-premium seats were initially 60K, at least until the addition of the 8K "cave" seats a few years ago. 60K is in line with what many of the newer stadiums hold. But then we have games where the Steeler fans show up in large numbers or noticeable amounts of seats, particularly in the upper deck, are left empty. What gives? It would be interesting to determine how many of those seats are put up for sale on a routine basis.

As for penalizing people who sell their tickets, no can do......the Redskins actively encourage people to sell their tix on Stubhub if they don't want to go.

[sockman77]

This is my first year as a season ticket holder after many years of waiting.. totally different experience than I thought it would be - especially the last 3 games. I'm up in the 440s and this week, surrounded by Giants fans, was especially tough when there was 6 minutes left, the skins fans in my section began leaving the game with chants of "na na hey hey" from the Giants fans. I always stay to the end, but its a tough place to be in your own stadium as your team loses yet again, and you are surrounded by the other team's fans. I swear, when we played the Steelers, I thought I was in Pittsburgh.

There is always different folks on both sides of me, so whoever has those tickets always sells them, and usually to the other teams fans..

Also, to the Redskin fan behind me who threw his drink on the Giants fan.. dude, he was just cheering for his team - he wasn't obnoxious or anything... it wasn't cool..

Oh well... I do love being out at the game - always stay to the end - just wish it felt like I was at a home game.. of course, when we win, it's a totally different feeling.. just can't remember what that feels like..

Still love my Redskins.. and that ain't a changing..

[Blondie]

I have to say this here..even though this might not be the correct place.

I was sitting in Section 9.

Giant fans in front of me.

Yep.

Row 1. Dream seats. Giant fans.

DO you THINK they ARE season ticket holders?

[Blondie]

I hate Firefox.

I double post all the time.

Sorry.

[hail2skins]

I have to say this here..even though this might not be the correct place.

I was sitting in Section 9.

Giant fans in front of me.

Yep.

Row 1. Dream seats. Giant fans.

DO you THINK they ARE season ticket holders?

Blondie, if I'm not mistaken, those dream seats are over $400/game, and I would wager are corporately owned. It doesn't surprise me a bit to see those tickets occupied by visiting fans.

What does surprise are the number of folks who have tickets in the general admission seats, particularly the upper deck, who choose to sell out. I would think at least the vast majority of those seats are owned by individuals, but maybe not.

[SkinsFTW]

It's true, the 12th man cost the team almost 20 points. We'd have won if all of you guys had just gone to the game, lol.

Interesting that the OP believes that the fans are worth 3 times more points than the actual team scores lately at home.

[Art Monk Fan]

I'm in the upper deck, haven't missed a game in four years. My seats were upgraded this year and in my new row, I'm the only one whose been at every game -- new people or empty seats around me every week. Two years ago, I started to get to know the folks in my section because they were there every week, but that's not happening where I'm sitting now. It's pretty depressing, but has only a minimal effect on the players.

If they were putting out a better product, more fans would come to the games. Three days after Thanksgiving in the cold and rain, after two dismal home losses, I know I had a pretty hard time getting motivated to cheer for this team. With 13 minutes to go, down by two scores, I leaned over to my son and told him this place would start emptying out if the Skins went three-and-out again. They did and the exodus began.

[justice98]

I think the size of the stadium is more than a valid reason. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s not a HUGE reason, but it can’t be dismissed. The main reason is simply the fans choosing to not go to the games, but sometimes other things don’t help. There’s a reason the Redskins have had the worst home field advantage in the division since FedEx opened. Compare home games with the Giants, Philly, and Dallas and you never see the infiltration that you see at Redskins home games. Do you ever see the number seats in Texas Stadium full of burgundy and gold? The Meadowlands? Lincoln Financial? The Steeler game embarrassingly exposed it to the world, but you’ve been seeing it year after year at FedEx for division games. (I’d love to know what Danny Boy had to say about that Steeler game fan debacle though). If you have to worry about taunting in your home stadium, you got issues.

RFK was perfect, 55K seats. Fewer seats for the opponents to get their hands on. With FedEx, you’ve got a full 35K-40K more seats. The thing is, you can’t deny it. FedEx is just too damn big. I’m sure it seemed like a good idea at the time to have a 90K seat stadium. But somebody tell me why the Redskins have the infiltration problem worse than any team in the division. I think 70K-75K would’ve been the right number if you wanted a bigger stadium. If you look at stadium capacities around the league, most fall in that general vicinity.

And I don’t buy the ticket prices argument. Understood about the high prices, the greater DC metro area is generally affluent enough to afford tickets. Maybe you might lose some on the lower income spectrum for people that can’t afford jacked up prices, but you should gain it on the upper end. I’ll be curious to see what the new Cowboys stadium prices are. I bet anything, they won’t be cheap. Dallas is a different animal though. It’s probably 10 hours between them and the next closest team, and that whole “America’s Team” thing has natives in other cities trying to go to games in their town. Their infiltration will almost always be high, no matter where you are. In terms of high profile franchises in sports, it’s Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers and then everybody else.

[Godfather151981]

Well, the club level at the stadium is probably too big at 15K seats, but I have a feeling it was designed that way initially to allow the Skins to charge somewhat premium prices (back then $100-200/game, depending on the relation to midfield) and satisfy what was then demand from folks who complained they were never able to get seats at RFK. Right now, the prices are well inflated from back then, so I can see a lot of those seats being corporate and either sold/given away to whoever or sit empty.

But then the non-premium seats were initially 60K, at least until the addition of the 8K "cave" seats a few years ago. 60K is in line with what many of the newer stadiums hold. But then we have games where the Steeler fans show up in large numbers or noticeable amounts of seats, particularly in the upper deck, are left empty. What gives? It would be interesting to determine how many of those seats are put up for sale on a routine basis.

As for penalizing people who sell their tickets, no can do......the Redskins actively encourage people to sell their tix on Stubhub if they don't want to go.

The reason that the Redskins encourage people to sell their seats on stub hub is because stub hub has a deal with the NFL. It'll never happen (penalizing people who sell to opposing fans), but I wish it would. My point is that if the stadium were smaller, those opposing fans would still come, but it would just cut down on the number of Redskin fans. And if they were to lower ticket prices, that would just mean more of a profit for the STH's that sell their seats for various games. I think that the best way to deal with this is to literally start harrassing people that you know are STH's and who have visiting fans sitting in their seats on various games.

[Godfather151981]

This is my first year as a season ticket holder after many years of waiting.. totally different experience than I thought it would be - especially the last 3 games. I'm up in the 440s and this week, surrounded by Giants fans, was especially tough when there was 6 minutes left, the skins fans in my section began leaving the game with chants of "na na hey hey" from the Giants fans. I always stay to the end, but its a tough place to be in your own stadium as your team loses yet again, and you are surrounded by the other team's fans. I swear, when we played the Steelers, I thought I was in Pittsburgh.

There is always different folks on both sides of me, so whoever has those tickets always sells them, and usually to the other teams fans..

Also, to the Redskin fan behind me who threw his drink on the Giants fan.. dude, he was just cheering for his team - he wasn't obnoxious or anything... it wasn't cool..

Oh well... I do love being out at the game - always stay to the end - just wish it felt like I was at a home game.. of course, when we win, it's a totally different feeling.. just can't remember what that feels like..

Still love my Redskins.. and that ain't a changing..

That's what I'm talking about when I say that opposing fans become really bold when they come to our stadium NEVER, and I mean NEVER, would I consider singing "na na na na, hey, hey, hey...goodbye" to a hometown fan if I was an opposing fan (as I'll be this Sunday in Baltimore). You represent your team and your fanbase when you go on the road to see them play, and that's not what I want people to think about the Washington Redskins and our fans. But yet people do it at FedEx Field all the time. I'm not suggesting that Skins fans need to take up the mentality of Philly fans, but...I don't know how else to stop this foolishness. I should never be taunted in my home stadium, that's all I know.

[Never4get#21]

The "Junkies" crushed FedEx Field on the radio about 3 weeks ago.

Lurch said it's a lock that he'll never visit the stadium again. Reasons:

1. Traffic is horrible.

2. The experience.

3. Massive fans turnout for other teams.

4. Prices

I mentioned the junkies because it's the view point of a lot of fans. There is a reason why we have a losing record at home this year. Every game you see fair weather fans that boo our team for simple mistakes. Every game you see several thousand opposing fans fill our stadium. Every game there are several thousand empty seats. Especially the yellow.

Fed Ex Field does NOT have that "Our Stadium" feel to it (Never has).

[Guest sith lord]

75,000 seat stadium would have been perfect. Dallas is gonna have the same problems when they open their 100,000 seat stadium.

[justice98]

75,000 seat stadium would have been perfect. Dallas is gonna have the same problems when they open their 100,000 seat stadium.

I don't think Dallas will have that problem because they're the Dallas Cowboys. With the fanbase they have, they'll have no problem filling that joint with wall to wall Cowboy fans. They have no competition within like a 3 state radius (the don't make me laugh and say the Texans). I don't think there's a team in the sports other than the Yankees maybe, that draws like the Dallas Cowboys. There's a reason when the Cowboys play, people tune in. I can't stand 'em, but I gotta acknowledge the truth of the matter.

And the stadium won't be an attractive looking dump like FedEx. Ok, I'm being facetious, it's not a dump, but for a relatively new stadium, FedEx is a whole lot of nothing special. Even when it opened, FedEx didn't have much in the way of bells and whistles. Just compared to RFK, it was the Taj Mahal. By all accounts, this Cowboy stadium is gonna be a sight to behold.

[Guest sith lord]

I don't think Dallas will have that problem because they're the Dallas Cowboys. With the fanbase they have, they'll have no problem filling that joint with wall to wall Cowboy fans. They have no competition within like a 3 state radius (the don't make me laugh and say the Texans). I don't think there's a team in the sports other than the Yankees maybe, that draws like the Dallas Cowboys. There's a reason when the Cowboys play, people tune in. I can't stand 'em, but I gotta acknowledge the truth of the matter.

And the stadium won't be an attractive looking dump like FedEx. Ok, I'm being facetious, it's not a dump, but for a relatively new stadium, FedEx is a whole lot of nothing special. Even when it opened, FedEx didn't have much in the way of bells and whistles. Just compared to RFK, it was the Taj Mahal. By all accounts, this Cowboy stadium is gonna be a sight to behold.

You may have a point.

[Shilsu]

All I know is, I first started attending games in 2004 when the crowd had a bad habit of doing the wave during the games.

The first game versus Tampa Bay where Clinton Portis broke a 60-yard touchdown on his first carry as a Redskin was pretty loud.

The second game, the Redskins were 1-2 and went up against the Dallas Cowboys on MNF. The crowd was crazy loud.

When we were 3-6 and going up against Cincinnati Bengals, the crowd at FedEx Field was still very good and loud. They chanted "WE WANT RAMSEY" even when we were getting blown out and went nuts when Patrick started to warm up on the sidelines.

The loudest game was when we were 4-9 and played the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday Night Football (not the marquee game back then). Wow, that was nuts with the EAGLES SUCK chants and whatnot.

In 2005, we started winning so of course the games were great, and once again, our win versus the Eagles on SNF was the loudest game I went to, though I did not attend the Dallas game that year.

Fast forward to 2008, and even when we are 6-3 and facing the 5-4 Dallas Cowboys on SNF, the crowd was horrible.

I think the horrible gameday experience is wearing out fans fast, from the high ticket prices to the crappy stadium to the even worse parking.