Question for ES Cops or Former Cops

[#98QBKiller]

So I was out drinking last night with my g/f and some of her friends and a fight broke out at about 2am outside of the bar we were at.

Long story short, this one police officer pulled this kid to the side (who wasn't participating in the fight but trying to break it up) pulled out his baton and started telling him "SHUT THE **** UP!!!" "STAND RIGHT ****ING HERE AND SHUT THE **** UP!!!"

And basically continued to act like that when it was completely unneccessary.

My question....

in a situation like that (if you're the kid), if you ask the cop for his name/badge # is he required to provide that info to you?

And if he does, will filing a formal complaint about his behavior produce any results?

The kid was calm and wasn't doing anything and for some reason the cop freaked out...that is against some kind of code of police conduct, correct? Or am I way off here?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Vicious]

Did the cop assault him?

[Teller]

The general rule is that you use the minimum amount of force necessary to control the situation.

Now, you also have to keep in mind that when the cop rolls in there, he has NO idea what's going on, other than the fact that there's a fight. He has to get in there and make split-second decisions, separate the parties, and begin his investigation.

There are all kinds of ways to do that. As a wise sergeant told me once, "Jason. Never yell at a drunk."

And that's GREAT advice. Yelling at drunks makes them get louder. If you speak softly, generally, they'll get quiet so they can hear you.

But I'll be honest, there were times that I felt like rolling in and presenting myself as HMFIC was the best option. And when that was the case, I did it. It usually worked, but that doesn't mean it was always right.

Ultimately, the cop did nothing worthy of a reprimand, and he would tell his chief he was trying to gain control of the situation if a complaint was filed.

But there's another old addage in law enforcement that stands true too. "You not only have to DO the right thing. You have to LOOK LIKE you're doing the right thing." And it sounds like he didn't do that.

[RyansRangers]

It depends on the situation. A formal complain will lead to what we call a meeting on the carpet with the chief or dep chief for a citizen complaint. could result in pulling desk duty or different assignment

However, you have to make sure that the officer was responding to something the kid said at first. Officers can restrain people with batons or cuffs if they feel threatned or if facing verbal arguements. Its called detaining a person they are not under arrest they are being detained.

[Teller]

However, you have to make sure that the officer was responding to something the kid said at first. Officers can restrain people with batons or cuffs if they feel threatned or if facing verbal arguements. Its called detaining a person they are not under arrest they are being detained.

And you probably know as well as I do what "trying to break up a fight" looks like when you roll up.

[BigMike619]

cops have big egos and go on power trips. not a shocker around my way and usually just end up brushing it off and mad dogging him every time I see him after that.

[JimboDaMan]

cops have big egos and go on power trips. not a shocker around my way and usually just end up brushing it off and mad dogging him every time I see him after that.

That's quite an overgeneralization. As h_h alluded to, there are certainly times that a cop might feel he needs to immediately get on top of a situation. I'm sure to those he gets on top of, especially if they're innocent of any wrongdoing, it feels like a power trip. But its way overgeneralizing to make a blanket statement that cops approach things on an ego trip.

Now, there certainly is an "us vs. them" mentality, "them" pretty much defined as anybody not wearing a badge. And while I can understand how that happens, its not a real healthy thing.

[BigMike619]

youre right, i am totally off base in my thinking. i have no fence around my front yard and some friends and i were drinking beer out there just enjoying the fresh air, etc. we werent doing a damn thing and this cop who is just cruising by stops and turns on his lights. were looking around wondering what is going on and he walks straight up to me and knocks the beer out of my hand.

"do you know youre ****ing drinking in public right now?"

"this is my house and i live here. I am in my yard and I am over 21"

"you have no fence which makes it public property and i can take all of your asses in"

he had NO need to walk up and slap my beer out of my hand nor speak to me like that. let me tell you he was so close to me i could smell his pig breath. we stood nose to nose for a few seconds and he suddenly just said "go back inside or to the back yard" and left.

another time, a crackhead was trying to break in to my house and i literally chased him down the sidewalk, around the corner and down the street. of course i didnt catch him but i called the cops. guess how long before they showed up? they never did.

ive never seen a cop get a cat out of a tree, i have never seen a cop do anything but be a dick and act like he is the all mighty and no matter what he says i have to do it. that is a big ego and a dick mentality.

hopefully my "generalization" has been erased and you get what i "specifically" mean now.

[RyansRangers]

And you probably know as well as I do what "trying to break up a fight" looks like when you roll up.

LOL yup you mean how everyone has something to say as your getting out o your car and everyone is telling you how to do your job and try touching you thinking they are your friends when theya re wasted

[RyansRangers]

youre right, i am totally off base in my thinking. i have no fence around my front yard and some friends and i were drinking beer out there just enjoying the fresh air, etc. we werent doing a damn thing and this cop who is just cruising by stops and turns on his lights. were looking around wondering what is going on and he walks straight up to me and knocks the beer out of my hand.

"do you know youre ****ing drinking in public right now?"

"this is my house and i live here. I am in my yard and I am over 21"

"you have no fence which makes it public property and i can take all of your asses in"

he had NO need to walk up and slap my beer out of my hand nor speak to me like that. let me tell you he was so close to me i could smell his pig breath. we stood nose to nose for a few seconds and he suddenly just said "go back inside or to the back yard" and left.

another time, a crackhead was trying to break in to my house and i literally chased him down the sidewalk, around the corner and down the street. of course i didnt catch him but i called the cops. guess how long before they showed up? they never did.

ive never seen a cop get a cat out of a tree, i have never seen a cop do anything but be a dick and act like he is the all mighty and no matter what he says i have to do it. that is a big ego and a dick mentality.

hopefully my "generalization" has been erased and you get what i "specifically" mean now.

Thats really unfortunate your experience with Police. I will say cops normally mimick the attitude they get first. I dont know you and not trying to insuate anything but if your confrontational and staring them down as they drive by or making gestures you are putting yourself on the radar.

Howeve there are ego maniac cops out thereq

[BigMike619]

Thats really unfortunate your experience with Police. I will say cops normally mimick the attitude they get first. I dont know you and not trying to insuate anything but if your confrontational and staring them down as they drive by or making gestures you are putting yourself on the radar.

Howeve there are ego maniac cops out thereq

huh? what happened to "protectors of peace" "protect and serve". and you are assuming i did things when i clearly stated that when he pulled up we looked around to see where he was going because we were all confused. cops walk up with their chests out and in a defensive mode before they do anything else. i have never had a cop walk up to me like he was anything but a dick. and i am 90% sure i am not the only person who gets that treatment.

[HOF44]

he had NO need to walk up and slap my beer out of my hand nor speak to me like that. let me tell you he was so close to me i could smell his pig breath. we stood nose to nose for a few seconds and he suddenly just said "go back inside or to the back yard" and left.

Damn never knew HH was a cop in San Diego!

[RyansRangers]

huh? what happened to "protectors of peace" "protect and serve". and you are assuming i did things when i clearly stated that when he pulled up we looked around to see where he was going because we were all confused. cops walk up with their chests out and in a defensive mode before they do anything else. i have never had a cop walk up to me like he was anything but a dick. and i am 90% sure i am not the only person who gets that treatment.

like I said its unfortunate that is your experience with Police

[Teller]

hopefully my "generalization" has been erased and you get what i "specifically" mean now.

Right.

Because that's what I spent five years doing, Mike. All of that. And I loved every second of it.

Sometimes I wish I had never been in law enforcement. I swear, it's the only profession where one or two bad experiences paints the ENTIRE picture of EVERYONE in the profession.

Ever had a bad teacher Mike? I have. Does that mean all teachers are ****heads? Ever been to a bad doctor? Or a bad dentist? I have. Does that mean they're all idiots and quacks?

Ever seen a bad parent? I have. Does that make you one?

Come on bud. You know better.

[BigMike619]

first off jason what you are quoting wasnt even said to you. second off you are taking something that was said and deciding to take it on like i was speaking to you specifically. if you wanna do that bro that is up to you but i never said "honorary hog" or "jason" so this is ALL YOU. you are being overly defensive and taking on something that was NOT said to you.

and if you think it is just one or 2 bad experiences from me and me alone I would suggest you try to rethink all that.

[Enter Apotheosis]

first off jason what you are quoting wasnt even said to you. second off you are taking something that was said and deciding to take it on like i was speaking to you specifically. if you wanna do that bro that is up to you but i never said "honorary hog" or "jason" so this is ALL YOU. you are being overly defensive and taking on something that was NOT said to you.

and if you think it is just one or 2 bad experiences from me and me alone I would suggest you try to rethink all that.

You just generalized all cops. You were already given the opportunity to back down from your statement and admit that not all cops are like what you described and you turned it down, instead opting to escalate the issue.

It's bad form on your part and h_h's post is perfectly understandable.

[Teller]

first off jason what you are quoting wasnt even said to you. second off you are taking something that was said and deciding to take it on like i was speaking to you specifically. if you wanna do that bro that is up to you but i never said "honorary hog" or "jason" so this is ALL YOU. you are being overly defensive and taking on something that was NOT said to you.

and if you think it is just one or 2 bad experiences from me and me alone I would suggest you try to rethink all that.

Sorry.

I guess I come at from Ryan's Rangers perspective. I'm not apologizing for the mistakes of other INDIVIDUALS anymore. Y'know, until every teacher in the world starts apologizing to me for the bad one I had. Or like I said, doctors do the same.

I wish I could use the same tortured logic that so many people use against me in race threads. "You don't know what it's like to be _________ so you don't understand."

And no, I'm sure you're not the only one to ever have a bad experience with a cop. Hell, I have myself. But you have to admit, there is no other profession in this country that gets so improperly generalized because of a bad experience here and there.

As for not addressing your post directly to me, I guess you're right. I suppose I'll stay out of future threads that don't have my name in the title.

[BigMike619]

whatever man. i am not going to apologize or take back what i said because one of my friends was a cop. i have people who dont like what white people did 400 years ago and i dont seem to wanna get all up in it every time when i know they dont mean me specifically.

and as far as feeling sorry for cops because they get a bad rap, no thank you. when you become a cop you should know what to expect. it is like working for a plumbing company and then complaining when you get poo on you. its in the job and if you cant deal with it and check the ego and temper at the door then maybe you shouldnt be a cop. maybe they should be UFC fighters.

you does NOT mean you specifically.

[BigMike619]

You just generalized all cops. You were already given the opportunity to back down from your statement and admit that not all cops are like what you described and you turned it down, instead opting to escalate the issue.

It's bad form on your part and h_h's post is perfectly understandable.

why in the **** would i back down from what i say and what i mean? because you dont agree? come on man, that would be silly of me to do and IS silly of you to think thats a possibility. i said it once and i will say it again; every single cop i have dealt with has a big ego and a bad attitude no matter what the situation is. they walk in with their chests pushed out and like they are going to level the entire room before they even hear what is really going on.

if you dont like what i have to say about it that is fine. this thread is about just what i am saying, cops being *******s. i am sharing my stories and stating what i think.

lol@you for thinking i care about what "form" you think i have.

[SkinsBry]

and i am 90% sure i am not the only person who gets that treatment.

You are not. Cops have pretty much always been dicks to me. In fact, I can't think of one time that a cop actually protected and or served me. I've only gotten the puffy chest, ****y attitude. I've never been defensive or argumentative for one reason, FEAR. Fear that if I say the wrong thing that they'll club me, taze me, shoot me or call for back up so a bunch of them can do those things to me.

They act as if that badge gives them unlimited power.

[Teller]

whatever man. i am not going to apologize or take back what i said because one of my friends was a cop. i have people who dont like what white people did 400 years ago and i dont seem to wanna get all up in it every time when i know they dont mean me specifically.

and as far as feeling sorry for cops because they get a bad rap, no thank you. when you become a cop you should know what to expect. it is like working for a plumbing company and then complaining when you get poo on you. its in the job and if you cant deal with it and check the ego and temper at the door then maybe you shouldnt be a cop. maybe they should be UFC fighters.

you does NOT mean you specifically.

So now you're going to generalize, but since you exclude me with one line at the end, I'm supposed to just say, "Oh, OK." Come on Mike. These are the kind of debate tactics we call bull**** on when other people do it.

You know me. You know I don't need you to feel sorry for me. And I don't want you, or anyone else, to.

I don't need your pity. I don't need your sympathy. I don't care if you like what I have to say. Nor do I expect you to ask for any of those things from me. But I DO appreciate your friendship; and the fact that we can usually be honest and up front in our discussions whether we agree or not.

And frankly, I don't think you're arguing this in an upfront manner. Just my opinion. I could be totally off-base.

[Enter Apotheosis]

why in the **** would i back down from what i say and what i mean? because you dont agree? come on man, that would be silly of me to do and IS silly of you to think thats a possibility.

You can back down from a statement without backing down entirely while still speaking your mind.

i said it once and i will say it again; every single cop i have dealt with has a big ego and a bad attitude no matter what the situation is. they walk in with their chests pushed out and like they are going to level the entire room before they even hear what is really going on.

And that's your experience. It could be the result of any number of things (e.g. the police force in area, bad luck, or even your attitude). My experiences have been neither particularly bad or particularly good. I've dealt with a hot-headed cop or two and a fair share of perfectly reasonable ones. More often than not I can understand why they do what they do... but that's just me.

if you dont like what i have to say about it that is fine. this thread is about just what i am saying, cops being *******s. i am sharing my stories and stating what i think.

Congratulations.

lol@you for thinking i care about what "form" you think i have.

I know you don't care, that's why I only went so far as to qualify it as "bad"

[BigMike619]

So now you're going to generalize, but since you exclude me with one line at the end, I'm supposed to just say, "Oh, OK." Come on Mike. These are the kind of debate tactics we call bull**** on when other people do it.

You know me. You know I don't need you to feel sorry for me. And I don't want you, or anyone else, to.

I don't need your pity. I don't need your sympathy. I don't care if you like what I have to say. Nor do I expect you to ask for any of those things from me. But I DO appreciate your friendship; and the fact that we can usually be honest and up front in our discussions whether we agree or not.

And frankly, I don't think you're arguing this in an upfront manner. Just my opinion. I could be totally off-base.

an upfront matter? what do you need for me to say in order to get the point that i think cops are *******s and have big egos?

you wanted to get all butt hurt like i said Jason when you were the LAST person on my mind. maybe if i did deal with you it would have been different but i didnt. i dealt with those who i said were *******s and had big egos.

i personally dont care if you try to call me on anything you want bro. i said what i did and i meant every cop. i wasnt thinking about you but if you wanna jump on the cop crusade bandwagon and try to throw them a life line then by all means do it. all that is going to happen is we will continue to go round and round until one of us gets frustrated.

[BigMike619]

You can back down from a statement without backing down entirely while still speaking your mind.

And that's your experience. It could be the result of any number of things (e.g. the police force in area, bad luck, or even your attitude). My experiences have been neither particularly bad or particularly good. I've dealt with a hot-headed cop or two and a fair share of perfectly reasonable ones. More often than not I can understand why they do what they do... but that's just me.

Congratulations.

I know you don't care, that's why I only went so far as to qualify it as "bad"

you have said absolutely nothing here. you say "congrats" when I tell you why I shared so you honestly are about as useful to me as an ******* on my elbow.

I am going to stop here because I dont want to get banned for telling you what I really think.

[Teller]

an upfront matter? what do you need for me to say in order to get the point that i think cops are *******s and have big egos?

you wanted to get all butt hurt like i said Jason when you were the LAST person on my mind. maybe if i did deal with you it would have been different but i didnt. i dealt with those who i said were *******s and had big egos.

i personally dont care if you try to call me on anything you want bro. i said what i did and i meant every cop. i wasnt thinking about you but if you wanna jump on the cop crusade bandwagon and try to throw them a life line then by all means do it. all that is going to happen is we will continue to go round and round until one of us gets frustrated.

Butt hurt? Cop crusade bandwagon?

*sigh*

I'll tell you what, Mike. Call me when you calm down and we'll catch up. This is stupid.

(BTW, this is a little technique we *******s somtimes use called "defusing.") :cool: