Did anyone see the NFL Top 10 players not in the HOF?

[mcarey032]

The one on the list that was sort of annoying is Cris Carter. He is going to get in, just not this year. They didn't need to put someone in this list who will more than likely be in the league after another year or two. I think that Derrick Thomas and Jerry Kramer for sure should have been in there, but when it comes to misses, like I said, how can Chirs Hanburger not be on this list?

[veteranskinsfan]

Number 55, Chris Hanburger was awesome and he deserves to get in even if it is through the senior vote method. Chris Carter does not deserve to get in right now. There are so many good Skins over the years that never got their HOF consideration.

[Dr. Terrapin]

Dexter? Nah, he had a few great seasons, but overall his 97.5 sacks are not that good. I know some will say Lawrence Taylor got in with his drug problems, so Dexter should, but the difference is, Taylor never got caught or banned from the NFL. I'm sure Dexter's ban is still in effect.

I'm not saying it is going to happen, but I would assert that Mr. D deserves to be part of the conversation.

Consider if you will:

A gap-toothed and much-hyped DE in an NFC city to the north just retired and seems to be considered a likely future HOFer. In 15 full seasons, he had 141.5 sacks, and his most famous moment is probably when Brett Favre blatantly gave him a sack so he could hold the single season record (22.5).

A Redskin DE of the '80s had 103.5 sacks in 11 seasons (with some games inactive due to off-the-field problems) IF you count the 6 from his rookie year...just before sacks became an official stat. He had 18.5 sacks in 1986, none of them a gift from an opposing quarterback.

Just my $.02.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

At the risk of being flamed, I'm gonna address the OP's request to discuss the show, not Gary Clark's credentials, or lack thereof, for the HOF. Of the ten discussed the two I think should be in are the Mad Duck, Alex Karras -- although his gambling suspension will forever prevent it from happening -- and Derrick Thomas.

Karras was every bit as nasty, tough and dominant as Dick Butkus. Yes, he was probably a dirty player, but I don't think too many in those days weren't. The point is teams had to account for him at all times, just like his Monster of the Midway contemporary.

Derrick Thomas was just sick. If he hadn't died tragically, he would be the all-time sacks leader hands down. He may not have played the run as well as he might have, but neither did freaking LT. When God sat down to create the prototypical LB body of the modern (post 60's) era, he came up with LT, Wilber Marshall, and D. Thomas.

My two cents...

[SnyderMustGo]

Are some of you trying to start the next campaign BEFORE Art even gets his speech? For pete's sake. Talk about pissing all over the good will we have.

The reason why the Art Monk campaign ultimately worked was because some of those people changed their mind when they thought that the amount of Monk support was in fact based on how great he was. This caused them to see merit in the argument and change there mind on him.

But you are going to piss away all that good will because now it will look like to the voters "These fans aren't promoting the player because he deserves it. They just apparently think that every Redskins player deserves to be in the Hall." THAT is the message you send out by starting the next campaign. It diminishes the Monk argument.

Are we going to start making sigs and writing letters about how "the Hall of Fame is meaningless" without Hanburger/Clark/Hogs etc. in it? Because that argument would be SO respectful to Monk and Green's accomplishments. I'm sure they would love to hear how the Hall of Fame is a joke because every other Redskin isn't in there.

Two deserving Redskins are getting in. Enjoy it and understand how profoundly important it is. Let the players think your support was because they deserved it (and not because they are just Redskins).

In short, quit ****ing. Not every Redskin belongs in the Hall of Fame and when you argue they do, you undermine the argument we DO have for those that have merit.

I'm so proud and excited for Monk and Green and let's honor them instead of talking about who the next Redskin is we can ***** about.

Monk and Green deserve as much.

[mcarey032]

Umm I am not trying to take away from what you are saying, but Chris Hanburger has 9 pro bowls, the most that any player has in our franchise history. He was the defensive player of the year in 1972. The guy was a beast as a linebacker. I am not taking away from what Green and Monk did, but the show was focused on players who didn't make the HOF. It was a show on NFL network and I was commenting on the fact that Chris Hanburger wasn't on this list. I also commented on the fact that Czabe said that Gary Clark should have been in. It was really only focused on the fact that Chris Hanburger wasn't even mentioned which was a total insult. It was strictly focused on the show. There was nothing calling for a campaign to get Hanburger or Clark in the HOF, although they probably deserve it. We are not taking away from what Green and Monk did. I am extremely happy for both players and they earned it.

[Siven]

Chris Hanburger is the most overlooked Hall-of-Fame candidate in NFL history. He was voted to the Pro Bowl nine times, selected as an all-pro five times and was named the NFL defensive player of the year in 1972. There is no former player with his resume who is not enshrined in Canton.

obviously we need to start a campaign for to get him enshrined much like we did for Monk.

Hanburger = legend

[MaddogCT]

From a similar post in Jan 2007:

Dexter Manley hands down. He was better than a contemporary who is already in the Hall.

Credit Extremeskin Member, afparent, for the great summary in favor of Manley being inducted into the HoF. I added a tiny bit at the end.

From:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/...ad.php?t=182736

Which was from:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/...ead.php?t=84471

Compare Manley to Howie Long, who is in the hall:

From afparent:

Dec 11th,2004

This will tell you how good Dexter was. This is from espnmagazine.com

Howie Long, who is already in the Hall of Fame, entered the league the same year Manley did, played the same position Manley did, and is hardly the superior player. Long had a career total of 91.5 sacks -- including the 7.5 he had his rookie year of 1981 when sacks were not an official statistic.

But Manley shatters that, with 103.5 career sacks -- the six he had his rookie year, the 91 he had with Washington between 1982-89 and 6.5 more with Tampa Bay in 1991. Plus, he won two Super Bowl rings. Both he and Long were double-teamed every game, both he and Long were durable, but Manley was an almost irresistable force. The offense had to account for him. Or else.

.................................................. ...................

Manley's season high sack total was 18.5 while Long's was 13.

Manley had 4 seasons of more than 10 sacks while Long had 3

Except for 1983, every year Long made the Pro Bowl and Manley was playing, Manley had more sacks than Long.

See sack totals below:

1982: L:5.5 D:6.5

1983: L:13 D:11

1984: L:12 D:13.5

1985: L:10 D:15

1986: L:7.5 D:18.5

1987: L:4 D:8.5

1988: L:5 D:9

1989: L:5 D:9

1990: L:6 D:0 (Cards)

1991: L:6 D:6.5 (Bucs)

1992: L:9

1993: L:6

Also Manley scored a TD and a safty. Long never scored in the NFL.

If he ever get re-instated by the NFL he should be voted into the Hall of Fame.

:logo:

[CHERRYR]

To rank the list from most overdue on down...

1. Kramer (72, 35 yrs. eligibility)

2. Hayes (died 2002 @60 w/22 yrs. eligibility)

3. Marshall (70, 24 yrs. eligibility)

4. Karras (73, 28 yrs. eligibility)

5. Thomas (died 2000 @33, current yrs. eligibility 3)

6. Anderson (59, 17 yrs. eligibility)

7. Tasker (46, 6 yrs. eligibility)

8. Stabler (62, 19 yrs. eligibility)

9. Watters (39, 2 yrs. eligibility)

10. Carter (42, 1 yr. eligibility)

IMO Watters & Carter shouldn't even be on a top 10 list. Hanburger has over 20 more yrs. eligibility. To me, age IS a factor! I think it's a bunch of crap for a player to be inducted posthumously. Thomas died young, but his day will come.

[Dr. Terrapin]

Are some of you trying to start the next campaign BEFORE Art even gets his speech? For pete's sake. Talk about pissing all over the good will we have.

In short, quit ****ing. Not every Redskin belongs in the Hall of Fame and when you argue they do, you undermine the argument we DO have for those that have merit.

I'm so proud and excited for Monk and Green and let's honor them instead of talking about who the next Redskin is we can ***** about.

And here I thought we were all having a pretty decent conversation IN RESPONSE TO THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD....

Can you also tell us what we are allowed to eat for breakfast on Saturday?....We wouldn't want to further offend you on 281's big day.

"In short," lighten up.

HTTR :helmet:

Sincerest congrats to Art & Darrell.:applause:

I'm still willing to push for CH, DM, and the left side of the Hogs. And I'm guessing Art and Darrell would, too.

[CHERRYR]

The reason why the Art Monk campaign ultimately worked was because some of those people changed their mind when they thought that the amount of Monk support was in fact based on how great he was. This caused them to see merit in the argument and change there mind on him.

But you are going to piss away all that good will because now it will look like to the voters "These fans aren't promoting the player because he deserves it. They just apparently think that every Redskins player deserves to be in the Hall." THAT is the message you send out by starting the next campaign. It diminishes the Monk argument.

QUOTE]

What horse ****. There is NO diminishing the Monk so called 'argument'. The man deserves to be in the HOF, period. If anything, your suggesting that electors will now believe that "Redskin fans apparently think that every Redskin player deserves to be in the Hall" diminishes Monk's induction! Monk waited 8 years. So what... Kramer has waited 35! But don't tell me that a campaign for Christian Hanburger by Redskins fans is going to appear like "these fans" think EVERY Redskins player deserves to be in the Hall! Screw you! The guy has been waiting for 25 years!

[BleedBNG]

obviously we need to start a campaign for to get him enshrined much like we did for Monk.

Hanburger = legend

King and Z would have a hard time with different angles for an excuse.

Their excuses for Monk wouldn't fly for #55. :laugh:

King: "Well, he was still 1 short of Lawrence Taylors Pro Bowl numbers... so I voted "no"

[gsuggs]

I'm shocked that they haven't hung a banner in Chapel Hill yet for him. All you have to do is have a jersey issued to you.

[Chief skin]

Jerry Kramer guard for the packers is not in and he should be in. A LOT OF PLAYERS HAVE GOTTEN SNUBBED NOT JUST SKINS

[Siven]

King and Z would have a hard time with different angles for an excuse.

Their excuses for Monk wouldn't fly for #55. :laugh:

King: "Well, he was still 1 short of Lawrence Taylors Pro Bowl numbers... so I voted "no"

I've watched perhaps 1 minute of play, but I was thinkin "damn what a vicious and terrifying man"

I'm pretty sure after watching that 1 minute clip he earned that "hangman" moniker

[CHERRYR]

I've watched perhaps 1 minute of play, but I was thinkin "damn what a vicious and terrifying man"

I'm pretty sure after watching that 1 minute clip he earned that "hangman" moniker

Damned straight!

I mean I'm a new guy to ES, the fact that there was a 'Campaign' for Monk by Skins fans was news to me. DG has always been my favorite Redskin, all six inductees deserved their moment at the podium last month in Canton. I've said it before and I'll say it again... being inducted into the HOF posthumously is a damned shame! It robs the inductee of the chance to express his appreciation in his own words and the living of the moment. Let us hope men like Christian Hanburger (67 yesterday) and Gerald Kramer (72) won't be one of those robbed.

Food for thought: Darrell Ray Green (48), James Arthur Monk (50) :applause: :applause:

[shawn]

I did watch it and found it rather offensive that right after Czaban said Gary Clark, they decided to use footage of a writer saying "yeah right" or words to that effect. I'm sure the writer wasn't responding specifically to Gary but rather the editors used his line and decided to insert it after that.

Sorry, if Michael Irvin is a hall of famer then Gary is one too. His numbers match. He was on 2 Super Bowl Champions. He caught touchdowns in both Super Bowls he appeared in and caught the biggest passes that won the NFC Championship Game in 1987 and iced the 91 NFC Championship. He didn't have Troy Aikman throwing him the ball and had to have the wealth spread with his Posse mates.

I can deal with Gary not getting in right now or even perhaps ever, but at least don't mock his candidacy NFL Network.

As for the list itself. I always get a laugh at the Cris Carter idiots. "Just as good if not better than Art Monk". :laugh: Yeah right. Also shouldn't Dr. Z be removed from the HOF committee after what he admitted to last night? He admitted to being fed up with the Art Monk question (still seemed like he does not think Art belongs in the Hall) so he decided to vote him in "to get him out of the way". :mad: So he voted for someone to "get them out of the way"? This man should keep his vote?

I know Carter is going to get in (probably next year) but I have never viewed him as one of the elite receivers. I don't care what his numbers say, I view him as a product of the pass happy 90's. He's the leader of the inflated numbers club who's members include players like Sterling Sharpe, Earnest Givens, Rod Smith, Andre Rison, Haywood Jefferies etc. Players who's stats would be HOF numbers if achieved in prior eras but now seem dime a dozen.

this is just too funny. when people argue against Aikman, they say he is over rated and he had Irvina and Emmitt. when they argue against Irving they say he had Aikman throwing to him....

was gary clark a #1 WR? or a #2? didn't have some probowl QBs throw for him and didn't those teams have the HOGS?

[LApunkrocker72]

How can there not be a single member from the best o-line in the history of thr NFL?Not a single Hog in the Hall.What a farce!

Great point, Tarpon75. I think Jacoby and Grimm should at least be in the Hall of Fame. You can also make a good case for Jim Lachey.