Do We Really Have That Many Holes?

[gorebd82]

I've seen quite a few threads with my fellow ES members distressed about not making moves in FA or concerned that we have so many holes to fill through the draft.

We read all these articles saying the Skins have soooo many needs. Depth on the DL, LB, secondary, influx of youth on the OL, and a big target at WR. We have so many old guys or players coming off injury.

My question is, what team doesn't have holes? And how many have the luxury of bringing back 23 starters (including kickers and missing Sean Taylor, RIP). No one questions the Colts, who let starters walk every offseason, or the Pats who lost a starting WR, LB, and two CBs, one of which was a pro-bowler.

Look at the Giants. I saw gaping holes in there team at the start of the season and some were never cured. The OL was shaky, RB was a question mark with Tiki retiring, and the LBs and DBs were adequate at best all season. And don't get me started on Eli.

Bottom line is that we are in the position to find upgrades, not in need of impact players. Anybody we bring in the draft will not start immediately. We are a playoff team with a young core that will only get better. The Giants lost starters, Packers lost Favre, Seattle is an old team that's a year older, Tampa Bay is promising but Garcia is 80. The Cowgirls are the only team that didn't take a hit, but we saw that we can compete with them on any day.

So I don't know about you, but I'm confident about this season without concern about the draft results. Any talented young picks are a bonus. So here's to a successful season and a run at the Super Bowl. :dallasuck

[DCchillin89]

I agree, but I think most scouts and analysts are scared by the prospect that Rocky, Carlos, are injured, Sean is gone (RIP), and the offensive line just can't stay healthy. I'd say we don't have that many wholes, besides those created by Injuries. Having a lot of picks is great though. We should get at least 5 impact players IMO, not stars, but solid serviceable players

[SonnyJ]

[sarcasm]

Didn't you get the memo?

The Redskins playoff push was a fluke. The Redskins are filled with aging, decrepit, and inadequate players who shouldn't be in the NFL. The depth on the team is horrible - even though the team lost an incredible amount of man-games due to injury/other (yet still made the playoffs), every other team is at least 2-deep at every position with high quality starting talent. The Redskin backups are scrubs. Every other team has a roster filled with young, high draft picks (don't ask me how), whereas the Redskin players are all old and come from other teams. Not only that, the talent on the team is completely ill-suited to match what Zorn likes to do (don't ask me what that is).

There, I think I've covered the major talking points. Any questions?

[/sarcasm]

I agree 100% with you.

[Valenski]

How many holes are we supposed to have?

[S4L]

Yes. Please reference any ESPN article with Mel Kiper and you will also agree.

We're about to get injected with a bunch of youth on this football team (i.e. 9-draft picks) which good or bad, is something that I am certainly unaccustomed to coming from this organization.

And now that Gibbs is gone... we may actually play them in a regular season game.

Get ready... the ZORN era is about to begin!

[RedlightG20]

I think some people on ES are mixing up the meanings of talent and depth when it comes to our roster. Fixing each requires different techniques in the draft, in my opinion.

Sure, we want guys on our starting roster that have the ability and talent to start on any other team in the league. I think we have some talented guys on the team, but I don't believe we are by any means young at the core. How can we be so young having given away tons of draft picks in years past?

Talent-wise, this is a 10-win team right now. But if a few starters go down, we don't have enough depth to sufficiently fill the void. And let's face it, we've been bitten by some key injuries the last few seasons. If we face WR/OL injuries once again, we could easily sink below 8-wins.

Basically our issue is that we don't have young guys to adequately step up when our aging vets go down. Fixing that requires the draft. We'll be a good, "solid" team in two seasons as long as we stick to drafting.

[SoCalSkins]

The Skins have had SB talent for 3 years. The key is a strong start. If we come out and win a few games and Campbell plays well or gets the quick hook and TC is inserted, Zorn will gain confidence and we'll make a decent push. A few losses early will put a lot of pressure on the team. Best case scenario would be beating the Giants to open and beating the Pukes at home in week 2.

[mistertim]

How many holes are we supposed to have?

That usually depends on gender, I believe.

[gorebd82]

I'm glad you all can feel where I'm coming from. Everybody seems to panic about our team, but I can't think of a team in the league with less question marks than the Skins.

I think a strong run in the playoffs this year (and hopefully a bowl appearance) will make the media change their tune. Everybody has injuries. I think we were like one of only a few teams with 5 or more starter on IR, but we were the only team to make the playoffs. If that's not depth, then I don't know what is.

We'll only be deeper and stronger this year. HTTR!

[Fieldy]

Yes, we really do have that many holes.

Last year's playoff run was based off pure emotion after the loss of Sean Taylor (RIP). There is no way we can replicate that, unless(god forbid) another tragedy strikes.

We lost in the first round of the playoffs because we couldn't get pressure on their QB (DL, LB), we couldn't protect our own QB too well (OL), and we didn't have a big target to help us move the chains (WR). As far as actual holes...that's it. IMO a need for depth is not a hole, just a need.

If you list all the positions (counting a line as 1 pos) there's 9 positions:

QB

RB

TE

WR

OL

DL

LB

CB

S

I would say since we have holes at 4 of them...that's a lot of ground to make up.

As it stands we do not have a few essential playmakers from being able to compete with the rest of the NFC East, much less teams like the Patriots of last year (reference week 8 when we lost 52-7) because of the holes we have.

:2cents:

[gorebd82]

Sure, we want guys on our starting roster that have the ability and talent to start on any other team in the league. I think we have some talented guys on the team, but I don't believe we are by any means young at the core. How can we be so young having given away tons of draft picks in years past?

Talent-wise, this is a 10-win team right now. But if a few starters go down, we don't have enough depth to sufficiently fill the void. And let's face it, we've been bitten by some key injuries the last few seasons. If we face WR/OL injuries once again, we could easily sink below 8-wins.

We have a fairly young core. Our best players are in their mid to late 20's. Correct if I'm wrong (I'm literally just counting off the top of my head), but only 10 of 22 starters are even thirty. Only 4 are in their mid-thirties. Of the 10, we might get a couple more season out of them because their experience can trump youth at their position (4 OL, Fletcher, MWashington).

And talent-wise, this is more than a ten win team. As one of the most injured teams and in the hardest division in the NFL, we won 9 games. And we blew a few. A healthy, more experienced roster and we might have a first round bye.

[Boy2Der]

The starters are already set no matter who we draft at #21 they will not be starting coming opening day so we will have great depth with Heyer already going to be a year older and if we can add another quality olineman trough the draft with our top 4 pick we should be okay. We have 3 good DT in Griffin, Montgomery and Golston and Chris Wilson is starting to come on so if we can add one more young guy there with talent that gives us a strong rotation and quality depth. WR were really lacking in the area but with Moss, Randle El, Mix and Thrash if we can draft somebody who play number 3 plus we don't know what Mathis will bring were good. I think once the draft is over and we look at who we bring in and the final roster will soon realize this is one of the most quality personel group we have had in years.

[Aireskoi]

The starters are already set no matter who we draft at #21 they will not be starting coming opening day so we will have great depth with Heyer already going to be a year older and if we can add another quality olineman trough the draft with our top 4 pick we should be okay. We have 3 good DT in Griffin, Montgomery and Golston and Chris Wilson is starting to come on so if we can add one more young guy there with talent that gives us a strong rotation and quality depth. WR were really lacking in the area but with Moss, Randle El, Mix and Thrash if we can draft somebody who play number 3 plus we don't know what Mathis will bring were good. I think once the draft is over and we look at who we bring in and the final roster will soon realize this is one of the most quality personel group we have had in years.

There are things that could change before opening day, we have the starters signed, but who knows if we keep them. We are a long way from the opening day roster, so much could happen. Zorn hasn't even met them all yet.

I would love to see a different WR start along with Moss from the draft or a trade. I don't think we have a WR who can command a double team on the roster other than Moss right now, and we need one.

Mix could be the guy, or maybe we find a star in the draft. We could still trade for him, so the right addition could start there if we can find him.

I could see a rookie guard possibly beating out Kendal, or a rookie DE could take over for Daniels. That's about it really, assuming everyone stays healthy.

[texasthunder]

We lost in the first round of the playoffs because we couldn't get pressure on their QB (DL, LB), we couldn't protect our own QB too well (OL), and we didn't have a big target to help us move the chains (WR). As far as actual holes...that's it. IMO a need for depth is not a hole, just a need.

:2cents:

I agree, and to add, I think we lost regular season games for the same reason.

If we can draft some lineman, both offensive and defensive, trade for a impact WR, we should have a really good shot at the playoffs and go deep. If we don't, I still feel like we may make the playoffs, but not advance very far.

[flexxskins]

Not just holes, but potential holes also.

We have two players at two different positions in Rogers and McIntosh that may not be ready to play for our team for a while. We had our best player in Sean Taylor pass away and both our d-line and o-line are old. Combined, these things create holes.

And I didn't even mention our need for a big WR.

[Laxpunk2006]

Some people fail to realize that while we did have to squeek into the playoffs we did it missing our #1 QB, #1/2 RT, #1 RG, #2 CB, #1 WSLB, #1 FS, and having injury problems with ALL of our recievers. Unfortunately we won't be getting Sean back this year, but other than him we're already upgrading a playoff team just by returning injured players. We could use an impact player at WR or on the DL but neither are necessary. We have shown we can win games with the guys we have, we just need youth and depth for the future.

I'm personally excited about this season. For Zorn this roster is a gift and a curse. It's not often first time head coaches get to inherit playoff rosters. Unfortunately for him this means the roster is NO excuse. He has the guys to win games, now we need to see how he utilizes their talents.

To answer the original question, no we don't have that many holes. I don't see a single position on the roster that we NEED an upgrade to win. However that might be because I can't see through these damn burgundy glasses.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I think that WR is a definite hole, especially in the WCO--we have no one to be a possession WR, Cooley is the closest thing we have being a great pass catching TE.

That may be the only "hole" however, but with the age of our lines, they're certainly going to be holes soon.

We need to hope that the injury bug stays away this year or we could be in trouble. I don't see the Skins making a run this year if we have the injuries we had last year.

If everyone stays relatively healthy and Rogers comes back and we get some decent production from our draft class, I think it will be a successful year overall.

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Our biggest issue last year was aggression. Gibbs was a teacher but his biggest downfall was his lack of anger or aggression. While the grandfather mentality he had served well for certain issues we also needed a coach that would be aggressive. I believe Zorn is the man to give this team that extra something. We have some holes to fill, namely a CB, S and OL but hopefully Mix will become the possesion reciever we need or maybe we can trade a 3rd and Betts for Roy Williams I sure would like to see him opposite Santana. Anyway we were doomed from the start, Gibbs and the nice play calling was our doom. Now we can be aggressive and blow people out! HAIL ZORN!!

[fansince62]

Some people fail to realize that while we did have to squeek into the playoffs we did it missing our #1 QB, #1/2 RT, #1 RG, #2 CB, #1 WSLB, #1 FS, and having injury problems with ALL of our recievers. Unfortunately we won't be getting Sean back this year, but other than him we're already upgrading a playoff team just by returning injured players. We could use an impact player at WR or on the DL but neither are necessary. We have shown we can win games with the guys we have, we just need youth and depth for the future.

I'm personally excited about this season. For Zorn this roster is a gift and a curse. It's not often first time head coaches get to inherit playoff rosters. Unfortunately for him this means the roster is NO excuse. He has the guys to win games, now we need to see how he utilizes their talents.

To answer the original question, no we don't have that many holes. I don't see a single position on the roster that we NEED an upgrade to win. However that might be because I can't see through these damn burgundy glasses.

so you see no connection between age and injury at many of these positions?

you believe age doesn't influence how much gas is left in the tank by the end of the season?

you believe that the Seattle game is resounding proof of a talent laden roster - starting or otherwise?

you are not mixing holes with uncertainty?

...just saying...ya know. I personally think we are in the middle of a (hopefully) mini-rebuild and not an over the edge into pre-eminence nudge as some seem to think

[jweisk1]

[sarcasm]

Didn't you get the memo?

The Redskins playoff push was a fluke. The Redskins are filled with aging, decrepit, and inadequate players who shouldn't be in the NFL. The depth on the team is horrible - even though the team lost an incredible amount of man-games due to injury/other (yet still made the playoffs), every other team is at least 2-deep at every position with high quality starting talent. The Redskin backups are scrubs. Every other team has a roster filled with young, high draft picks (don't ask me how), whereas the Redskin players are all old and come from other teams. Not only that, the talent on the team is completely ill-suited to match what Zorn likes to do (don't ask me what that is).

There, I think I've covered the major talking points. Any questions?

[/sarcasm]

I agree 100% with you.

I love the sarcasim...just made me laugh buddy!!

[Rob Mexico]

I do not think we have as many holes as many people think. But it does become an issue with our health...Carlos, Rocky, and Sean being gone

HAIL!

[gorebd82]

Not just holes, but potential holes also.

We have two players at two different positions in Rogers and McIntosh that may not be ready to play for our team for a while. We had our best player in Sean Taylor pass away and both our d-line and o-line are old. Combined, these things create holes.

And I didn't even mention our need for a big WR.

I guess this is what I'm saying is...potential holes, or i prefer the term needs, are completely different from holes. I think we can get better in areas, but we have a pretty balanced team as a whole and not many positions that are a glaring weakness.

Would we love a dominant pass rusher? Of course, but a rotation of Daniels/Evans/Wilson is good enough to get the job done. Same at WR, Moss/ARE/Thrash/Mix aren't the greatest show on turf, but I'd take them over a lot of WR corps in the league.

As for the Carlos injury, start Smoot and Springs. Draft a DB and Carlos will recover with time. For Rocky, start H.B. or Campbell or pick up a serviceable vet LB (they're always out there). There's always room to improve and of course injuries happen.

But unless there's something catastrophic, we have more than serviceable starters, a handful of game-breakers, and options off the bench. We've seen that we can manage and sometimes excel with depleted QB, RB, WR, OL, DB, and LB over the last two years. I think our DL actually has the least drop off a major component goes down.

So tell me again why everyone seems to think we're such a mediocre team and in such dire need of quality players?

[McD5]

The Skins have had SB talent for 3 years.

SB talent? Who was our SB talented qb again? And our SB talented guy on the defensive line?

How about our SB receiving corps? Who were they again?

We have plenty of holes to fill........just because we have a player at a position, doesn't mean that he is elite. In many cases, the starter IS a hole that needs to be replaced.

How many current Skins players would honestly be starters on other, above average playoff teams?

How many do you think would start on the Colts or Pats?

Cooley, Landry, Samuels......Springs and Marcus when healthy. Fletcher on a few teams.

That leaves a lot of holes.

[DallasSucks19922010]

That usually depends on gender, I believe.

:laugh: that deserves a high five

[gorebd82]

How many current Skins players would honestly be starters on other, above average playoff teams?

How many do you think would start on the Colts or Pats?

Question, how many Colts would start on the Redskins? Obviously, Peyton and the two WRs. Bob Sanders and Freeney.

None of there LBs. 3 of the 4 DBs and DLs wouldn't start (maybe Mathis, but he's like 230). And even actually if you look at the safeties as a unit, I might take ours. Bob Sanders is a beast, but Landry is bigger, faster, and even more physical. You can talk bad about Doughty, but can you even name the Colts other safety. None of their OL (except maybe Saturday). Addai wouldn't start over Portis. Clark wouldn't necessarily start over Cooley.

And if you look at the 4 that are obvious, those positions have some of our best players. Yes, Peyton is the man, but JC has the tools to be that franchise QB. Carter is no Freeney, but he did have 14 sacks last year. As for the WRs, you got me there, but Moss or ARE can break one at any time.