How Important is the Character of the Coach ...?

[rlt2622]

look at how much character gibbs had, i think it is very important

[The Rook]

Unfortunately, the character of the coach can not out-weigh the record of the coach.

Character is a great quality, but professionalism wins out. Gibbs had both.

:helmet: The Rook

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Depends. How many players do we plan on having murdered this year?

[Oldfan]

Depends. How many players do we plan on having murdered this year?

It depends on how badly they play.

[Oldfan]

Hey PTW,

Glad to have your thoughts and comments added to the discussion. I enjoy all perspectives and like yours as well.

As a Christian and believer for almost 20 years, I do believe that being a man (or woman) of solid faith provides an advantage - for several reasons. I think Coach Joe really understood this and I really hope Zorn understands this as well - especially in an environment like the pressure=packed NFL.

I think it boils down to this:

1. If you have your identity in Christ (this does not mean you are a robot, but you have yielded your will to do his will and he gives you the desires of your heart), then you will always know who you are and what you stand for. I think Gibbs and Dungy understand this. I dont think Bellicheck does (even though he is a "winner", he is willing to cheat to gain an edge) - so he has no character.

2. I think it helps to have peace in who you are and what your real purpose is when things go bad. You really see people's true character when the going gets rough.

3. Most importantly, as Christians, we are supposed to "work unto the Lord" which really means to do our absolute best in everything we attempt. That does mean hard work, sacrifice and commitemnt. Again, I think Gibbs and Dungy have shown this.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Glad to have you aboard PTW. Look forward to any other musings you might have.

You don't have any idea how sanctimonious this sounds to non-Christians, do you? Your post is lacking in empathy which is the basis for morality.

[CRobi21]

You don't have any idea how sanctimonious this sounds to non-Christians, do you? Your post is lacking in empathy which is the basis for morality.

Nice SAT word Oldfan. Us young fans also learn new vocab here on ES. What a great place.

[skinsince72]

I think you make a good point. I'm not saying that everyone that attends church makes the right decision but a person that has chosen to live his/her life based on the teachings of his faith, be it Christianity or any other faith, normally is consistent with the decisions they make and the impressions they leave.

You always know what to expect from Gibbs, that consistency speaks volumes about him. Players and fans gravitate to that.

[Mania]

obviously not very important, just look at Belicheck and Parcells.

[cmiles3006]

I think I enjoyed this thread as much as any I've seen in a long time. It actually had(for the most part) well thought out opinions. I think the character of the coach is a defining part of being a coach. I know that I feel better about the Redskins after Gibbs 2 than I did between the two Gibbs tenures, and it has little to do with the wins and losses.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i could care less if jim zorn worships satan and bathes in mayonaise every tuesday. if that somehow translates to wins on the field and our team being a dominating force, then im all for it. this isnt a contest to see who can have more character, its a contest to see who can put the most punishing and ferocious team on the field. if jim zorn takes us to 3-13 but does it with class, he can take his class elsewhere. i want wins.

[Nomadskin11]

I think you make a good point. I'm not saying that everyone that attends church makes the right decision but a person that has chosen to live his/her life based on the teachings of his faith, be it Christianity or any other faith, normally is consistent with the decisions they make and the impressions they leave.

You always know what to expect from Gibbs, that consistency speaks volumes about him. Players and fans gravitate to that.

This is an excellent clarification/addition to the OP's original point. As a teacher in much of my everyday life, I find that a consistent set of values is tremendously important to teaching and leadership. The accountability of both teacher and the pupil to this set of values is also essential. I would call this accountability "character."

I am not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a man of principle. The closer I get to actually adhering to those principles, the closer I am to living with integrity, and the easier it is for me to teach and for my students to accept what I have to say.

If Coach Zorn and others on his staff have a strong set of principles and are accountable for and to those principles, then their example, one of integrity and character, will unquestionably help the team to behave in a similar fashion. The name of those principles, in this case Christianity, is unimportant, as is the relationship others might have with that set of principles; again, in my experience it is the example of accountability that makes all the difference in the world.

A locker-room led by men with integrity and character, and full of players who follow that example, is more likely to stick together through thick and thin, and is therefore more likely to play as a team, for each other and with each other. In my humble opinion, this can be a very important ingredient in building a very good and very consistent team as a whole.

And while I will always root for and love my Skins, I admit to even greater enjoyment when I am rooting for a team whose character and commitment I believe in.

peace,

-nomad

[CG]

I couldn't care less what kind of character the guy's got as long as he wins a SuperBowl.

[jimster]

Character is needed the moment something goes wrong. People will rally behind men of character. They will not rally for bums.

How many times have we heard players that played for Gibbs I, that have said they'd run through a wall for him. THAT is leadership and character.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

How many times have we heard players that played for Gibbs I, that have said they'd run through a wall for him. THAT is leadership and character.

and that translated into multiple winning seasons and 3 superbowls. like i said earlier, if the players want to rally around a guy who worships satan, then so be it. as long as were winning, i dont care whatsoever about character.

[Troy Fakeman]

and that translated into multiple winning seasons and 3 superbowls. like i said earlier, if the players want to rally around a guy who worships satan, then so be it. as long as were winning, i dont care whatsoever about character.

Just win baby - that's my motto in madden...

You better check yo'self....B Lloyd Xmas...

[APBT]

I want coach who care more about winning thatn he does "Core players."

Core players is a big fat hoax.

I want a coach who wins at all cost, including video taping hand signal. I want to see the Redskins as winners.

Characters are actors and a character at any giving time is acting.

[Koolblue13]

i could care less if jim zorn worships satan and bathes in mayonaise every tuesday. if that somehow translates to wins on the field and our team being a dominating force, then im all for it. this isnt a contest to see who can have more character, its a contest to see who can put the most punishing and ferocious team on the field. if jim zorn takes us to 3-13 but does it with class, he can take his class elsewhere. i want wins.

Well played BLC and I agree. If you want to talk about religion in sports, take it to the Tailgate. The Stadium is for REDSKINS TALK, not the influence of the loving god.

A coach need not be a "bible thumper" as you put it ... he doesn't even have to be a Christian or an adherant to any faith.

I just want a coach who is a pillar of strength and a model of self-control (in addition to being a football genius, of course.)

We don't yet know what kind of a HC Zorn will make, but I don't expect to see him shouting expletives at his players on the sidelines.

Tom Caughlin did pretty damn well this year, without running a bible school for players. He was an ******* and ran his starting RB out into retirement and still won the SB.

You're new around here PTWord, so I can't make a definite judgement, but your posts definitly seem to have an agenda and I don't want to hear it.

[jthor99]

I think this is very important for the fact you want someone repersenting your football team like your players

[Hollywood1127]

If I may add, the character of the coach is very important.

We cant have a coach, especially for our team that is not confident. I'm sorry but our team has been in desperate cry for a good season for the past 6 years. We cant afford to have a coach that is not coffident as to what he can due on the field to bring to the team to greater victories. Thats why I like Zorn. He is confident. He knows how hard our devision is and how much we have struggled for the past 6 years trying to become victories over them. He is confident when it comes to getting the players motived and teaching them these new methods. Thats the coach that we have been looking for. One who is not conservative, and open for new ideas. So yes, the character of the coach is important. If you have a coach that is scared and walks out on the field with a negetive mood, then its a 5/5 chance that you are going to loose the game, especially when the team you coach is the Washington Redskins.

I will die happy in my grave if the Reskins manage to pull of a season without having to struggle to make the Wild Card. We should be able to beat out enough teams in order to make the play offs without further questioning.

[preachtheWORD]

WOW.

I never imagined my very first post on extremeskins would elicit so much

response ... and even a little venom.

While I appreciate the opinions of all who have posted - you are perfectly entitled to them, of course - I am afraid that some people have taken me wrong.

I you read the original post carefully, you will notice that it was about the importance of character to the success of a coach. When a HC is an authentic, moral, upstanding man, who exhibits self-control and calm leadership on the sidelines, the players will respect him and play their hearts out for him. Joe Gibbs was such a man. He is the very model of character and integrity as a coach. Despite his relative lack of experience, I can see some of these same important traits in Zorn. For that reason, I have high hopes for his tenure as HC.

Now, so far, so good. We are all glad to have (we hope) a coach with great character (so long as he wins games). But then I apparently made a "misstep." I noted the fact that, like Gibbs, Zorn is a Christian. I found this encouraging, but I did not make a big deal of it. After all, the point of the thread was not that Zorn was a Christian, but that he appears to be a man of character. However, several people siezed on the reference to Christianity and made much more of it than I ever intended. Some people mistakenly assumed that I was suggesting that simply being a Christian makes a man a great coach, or that in order to be a great coach a man must be a Christian. This was not my intention at all. As you recall, Christianity was not the point of the thread - Character was. A man must have many skills in order to be a succesful Head Coach. If he does not have the mind for the game, the nerve, the leadership, or the work ethich, no amount of "faith" or "religion" will make him a great coach. However, if a man has the necessary coaching skill, a foundation of faith will be an additional asset to him.

I must make myself clear ... I am a Christian, and I refuse to apologize for that. And it does encourage me that Zorn and Smith appear to be men of faith. HOWEVER, I am certainly not suggesting that a man needs to be a Christian to be a good coach, or that being a Christian means he will be a good coach. There are plenty of successful coaches who are not men of faith, and plenty who are. If you read the post carefully, you will note that Zorn's faith was a secondary factor. His apparent Character and integrity was the main point.

Someone's personal faith is just that .... personal. We all have the right to believe whatever we want, or to believe nothing at all. Even when I do not agree with a person on matters of faith, I respect their right to hold their own convictions, and I will never belittle them. I have absolutely no intention of forcing my convictions upon anyone else, yet I refuse to stifle the expresion of my faith that is so integral in my life. I invite all people to freely express their own convictions, with respect to the beliefs of others.

It hurts me somewhat that some people put up their guard and even became venemous when faith entered the discussion. It amazes me that my mere passing reference to the religious affiliation of our new coach prompted some to grab it and run with it. Some posters made a far greater deal out of it than I did! Please know that I support your right to believe or not, but I simply do not understand some of the negative responses.

In the future, I'm sure that my faith will be reflected in my posting. It is such an important part of my life, that it will obviously be present. HOWEVER, I pledge that I will post with utmost respect for the convictions of others. I hope that all other posters will have the same respect for me.

~ptW

[Brucko]

Character is so vitally important. There was no way that this years team would have survived and won after the horrible death of Sean Taylor without Joe Gibbs at the helm, a person whose great faith and charater anchored the team. It was great to see Synder hire a coach who has faith, values and character, that hopefully can be a leader of men and a successful HC. I am excited about Zorn as our HC, and I believe he will do a great job and we will win. I will miss Coach Gibbs he has always been one of my heros.

Hail to the Redskins!!

Great Post!!

[Oldfan]

In the future, I'm sure that my faith will be reflected in my posting. It is such an important part of my life, that it will obviously be present. HOWEVER, I pledge that I will post with utmost respect for the convictions of others. I hope that all other posters will have the same respect for me.

You aren't showing the utmost respect for the convictions of others when you use a public forum intended for football fans to display your religious beliefs.

empathy: Understanding and entering into another's feelings.

Empathy is a human trait like athletic coordination, some people are born with a greater capacity for it than others. We can't acquire more by adopting religious beliefs.

Before Christians can live their faith, and treat others as they want to be treated, they must understand and enter into another's feelings -- thus the better Christians are those who were born with a greater capacity for empathy than the others.

In order to understand the reaction of non-Christians to your post, I suggest you try to imagine that you have lived your entire life in a Muslim-dominated USA. You get daily reminders of it by e-mails when your Muslim friends and relatives thoughtlessly don't remove your name from their mailing lists when they send their inspirational messages praising Allah.

You have evangelical Muslims come to your door every few weeks seeking to convert you to their faith. Your President reminds you often via his "Allah be praised" messages that he doesn't represent you even while asking non-Muslims to fight and die for our way of life.

Then, you come to an Internet forum where a poster, PraiseAllah, writes of the high character of a football coach who used his fame to put his Muslim faith on public display for all to see as though Allah needs to be advertised. And the poster, PraiseAllah, writes of high character and the Muslim faith in the same breath implying that there is a connection.

If you Christians can put yourself into the shoes of us non-Christians and treat us as you want to be treated, you will keep your faith a private matter. Frankly, when Joe Gibbs put his faith on public display I was embarrassed for the man. I saw it as a lack of class. It's kinda like having a friend with body odor. The guy might be lovable, but the body odor isn't one of the things that makes him so.