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Scouts weigh in on young QB's -- Campbell related(merged)

Hooper

By Hooper
in The Stadium

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SonnyJ

SonnyJ

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Cutler has been posting some good stats, but I don't think he looked that great against the Texans. It could have just been a bad game, but what I saw wasn't a guy who was particularly polished.

He's got the arm, of course, but some of his throws looked quite wild. I don't mean just inaccurate, but poor decisions. His mechanics looked very inconsistent, too. Dunno, he just didn't look all that settled, to me. Like I said, maybe it was just an off-night.

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mrcunning15

mrcunning15

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Cutler to me looks no better than Patrick Ramsey looked early on. Sure, he has a big arm, but WATCH HIM PLAY. Its weird, ESPN just starts hyping theses guys, and basically unless they're such a bust that they can't be defended, they try to keep on hyping.

ESPN is nothing but a hype machine, but at least they're giving praise to Campbell. I wish Riggins was on espn so the nation could hear his rant on he believes LT is most the overrated running back ever, thats some good stuff.

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MikeBass

MikeBass

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big, possession receiver-types (Owens, Witten)

smallish, fast outside receivers (Glenn, Crayton)

dominating running game (Barber, Jones)

you're telling me that Dallas has the same offense we do? How about this one:

big, possession receiver-types (Moss, Watson, Stallworth, Vrabel)

smallish, fast outside receivers (Welker, Maroney)

supposedly dominating running game (Maroney)

who DOESN'T have those three? Unsuccessful teams such as Miami, Oakland and SF.

similar offensive players and weapons does not suggest exact same offensive plays or playstyles.

I see where you are coming from though. Gibbs and Saunders' share alot in common, yes, I pointed that out. They both started making their playbooks under Coryell - but they aren't exactly the same. Saunders has worked with other coaches and that brought in alot of outside influences.

Gibbs moved Coryell from more passing to more running, but still had Coryell-type passing plays.

Saunders' actual playcalling involves more passing than Gibbs' and most of the time there isnt a pre-determined receiver on the play - something Saunders' implemented after his time with Don Coryell.

EDIT: From what I understand, Coryell used zone blocking - I'm not sure about this, but that is one similarity b/w the two.

My Point, I guess, is that yeah they are similar, and the similarities Jason has picked up on quite well. But there are alot more plays that will take time for him to fully understand - I'd venture to guess we'd see a few plays we haven't seen before against NYG. So again, my point (wrapped in an enigma, etc), is that it'll take time for JC to pick up the offense fully, maybe another off-season, but when he does we'll definately see the results

(Sorry if im not clear or fully explained things, I have a final tomorrow and am stressed/tired/etc)

EDIT 2: You're right, Saunders can be seen as the next natural progression from Gibbs (in a sense and lack of a better term). Somewhat similar playstyles but you can say that Saunders ADDS more to the table

I'd be willing to have a more educated conversation with you when my finals are done on saturday, again sorry for the incoherence, etc.

No, you did very well and was totally coherent in proving my point.

Yes, Dallas, NE and a lot of teams adapted to Gibbs/Saunders/ Coryell style of play originally constructed in SD because it works and was proven to work in the Jefferson, Joiner, Winslow Sr. and Muncie and again in the Clark, Saunders, Monk and Riggins eras. Some teams are not as fortunate as others talent-wise but their premises goes back to those record breaking systems. Gibbs and Saunders, both, were part of the innovation of this type of offense and therefore share most of the same concepts BECAUSE they are part originators.

Again, I love the upside of Campbell but we still can not keep giving the excuse that he has only played in 7, 10, 13, 19, so on and so forth, games, when he has been a part of this system now for three years. How many games/years does it take?

Good luck on your finals!!!

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SearchHorizon

SearchHorizon

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What many people don't recognize is the advantage that JC has over other quarterbacks: he is being coached by Gibbs and Saunders. Just think back to Mark Rypien years.

JC will surpass other young quarterbacks that are ranked higher than he, given time. I have seen JC throw quick, crisp passes -- his growth would have continued, had it not been for injuries this year.

One has to take a step back and see the forest. I am convinced that in JC, our QB position is well set.

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taylorcoreskin

taylorcoreskin

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I believe accuracy is something a qb has or doesnt have. My main concern with JC. :2cents:

I think many experts would agree that accuracy is dependant on the mechanics and the timing of the release. Timing of the release obviously requires the quarterback to understand the scheme of the offense perfectly. All of these things, from accuracy, to mechanics, to timing, to intelligence, are legitamte concern with JC. They have been when he was coming out of college; they continue to be concerns now. Very little has changed with him. A QB's greatness will be determined by his mechanics, intelligence, or a combination of both. Jason has neither on his side at this point.

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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Wow, you make judgement based on 1 game too. This board is priceless :laugh:

Oh really, is that what I was doing?

I'm giving an example of someone who doesn't have a lot of starts who is more accurate and dealing with his offense (limited as it is) better than Campbell has shown, for the most part, since being here.

That's not to bash Campbell actually. It's just to throw more countering evidence on the pile that it somehow takes years for a QB to look good.

Perhaps Big Ben, Derek Anderson, Brady, Manning or many other QBs successful before or during their second year in the league suit you better.

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RocketCitySkins

RocketCitySkins

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A QB's greatness will be determined by his mechanics, intelligence, or a combination of both. Jason has neither on his side at this point.

IMO, Jason's intelligence shouldn't even be in question. He was on the dean's list in High School and ended high school with a 3.52 GPA. He had a 3.00 GPA at Auburn. He scored either a 28 or a 23 on the Wonderlic depending on which website is correct. He learned 5 offensive schemes in 5 years and is now working on learning his 6th with Saunders. He may have a Mississippi Southern drawl, but if you have listened to 7 years of his interviews like I have, you can see that he is very well-spoken. Fine if you don't like his mechanics but the facts don't support your statement that he is not intelligent.

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Vicious

Vicious

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Jason Campbell never gets to run the offense til the second half. If you noticed we run no huddle almost exclusively in the second half. I think that Joe Gibbs and Saunders might be sharing duties. Too many chiefs.

Take a look at the game against buffalo. Take a look at the game against new york.

Both times Campbell has a chance to put it away. All he needs is a first down in that Buffalo game and we win, we are in control of our destiny in the playoffs, our men feel the feeling of victory even in tragedy... and Joe Gibbs runs it three times up the gut when we've only been averaging 2 yards a carry, THREE TIMES. Run, Run, Run. PUNT. He thinks it's 1980. He thinks his Offensive Line somehow magic where a rookie, journeyman and new guy with our pitifully basic run blocking schemes can somehow break open a longer run then we've had all night.. Instead of giving it over to our Quarterback who is supposed to be a franchiser.

We lose the game... Lets not even attribute the botched time out. That right there is where we lost that game when gibbs decided it'd be a fantastic idea to try and win the game with the worst unit on our team, the offensive line.

The new york game. Campbell gets the ball on the 35. He gets SACKED because his Oline is trash. Completed a 25 yarder to Randle but it gets pulled back because of a holding call from our Oline. He then completed a 15 yarder... Right there the kid never gives up and Makes Plays.

In that same drive, 3rd and 13. He hits Randle for a 20 yarder. It is first and goal.. Spike. What happens then? sellers drops the ball then we run it two more times in our 1980's jumbo package and lose the game.

We win these two games we're in the playoffs.

These two games we needed to keep the ball in our QB's hands. Our receiving core has played so poorly they hadn't had a TD until game 9. That's absolutely pathetic, dropped balls and no separation. There is a reason Campbell was able to hit Cooley. He can actually catch because of his size and focus. Balls were hitting our "#1" receiver in the face and you are blaming the Quarterback? You guys need to get a better eye for football.

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taylorcoreskin

taylorcoreskin

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IMO, Jason's intelligence shouldn't even be in question. He was on the dean's list in High School and ended high school with a 3.52 GPA. He had a 3.00 GPA at Auburn. He scored either a 28 or a 23 on the Wonderlic depending on which website is correct. He learned 5 offensive schemes in 5 years and is now working on learning his 6th with Saunders. He may have a Mississippi Southern drawl, but if you have listened to 7 years of his interviews like I have, you can see that he is very well-spoken. Fine if you don't like his mechanics but the facts don't support your statement that he is not intelligent.

Regardless of his GPA, his wonderlic is below average, and it's been well-documented that scouts have questioned his intelligence and his ability to understand an NFL calibre offense as a result. Regardless of what you may think about his interviews, any objective person could determine that Collins is a smarter individual than Jason based on how they express themselves and communicate the decisions they've made in games. The facts seem to refute your assertion that his level of intelligence is acceptable.

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skinfan2k

skinfan2k

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Regardless of his GPA, his wonderlic is below average, and it's been well-documented that scouts have questioned his intelligence and his ability to understand an NFL calibre offense as a result. Regardless of what you may think about his interviews, any objective person could determine that Collins is a smarter individual than Jason based on how they express themselves and communicate the decisions they've made in games. The facts seem to refute your assertion that his level of intelligence is acceptable.

U mean that 28 on the wonderlic test

VY 12

Marino 14

Big Ben 28

Ryan Fitzpartick 50

Eli Manning 39

Wonderlic are so dumb

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