JC Detractors: time to step up.

[Veretax]

I am really rather tired of all this "flak" thrown at Jason Campbell, and think its time for those that believe JC is a bad quarterback and needs replaced to step up and tell those of us who don't understand their logic, just who they think would fix the problem. We want to know what your "Plan" is to fix this problem you foresee, because most of us don't see how this is possible.

Let me set some ground rules though.

1. No Current NFL Franchise QB can be called upon for this change.

That rules out quarterbacks like the following:

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Tom Brady

Tony Romo sits to pee

Brett Favre

Ben Rothelisberger

Basically guys that have long term deals with their team or are just plain not likely to be let go.

2. If it's a draft pick your after, give the player's name and school, (Senior or Junior?) and a reason why you think bringing in a fresh rookie would be preferable. (Oh and if you have any idea, where do you think the Skins will be picking this player at (what round))

That having been said, I'm very interested in the answers

Current League Standings in reverse order:

(Still subject to correction)

Miami 0-12

Atlanta 3-9

St. Louis 3-9

San Francisco 3-9

Ny Jets 3-9

Kansas City 4-8

Cincinnati 4-8

Oakland 4-8

Baltimore 4-7

Chicago 5-7

Houston 5-7

Philadelphia 5-7

*Washington 5-7

New Orleans 5-7

Carolina 5-7

Denver 5-7

Arizona 6-6

Detroit 6-6

Tennessee 7-5

Cleveland 7-5

San Diego 7-5

NY Giants 8-4

Jacksonville 8-4

Seattle 8-4

Tampa Bay 8-4

Pittsburgh 9-3

Indianapolis 10-2

Green Bay 10-2

Dallas 11-1

New England 11-0

So right now we are looking at maybe the 13th Pick in the first round.

[Diver]

I love Campbell! Thinks he is going to be a very good quarterback with some more experience...He still needs to learn how to close games, but that comes with time.

[andyburd]

I am really rather tired of all this "flak" thrown at Jason Campbell, and think its time for those that believe JC is a bad quarterback and needs replaced to step up and tell those of us who don't understand their logic, just who they think would fix the problem. We want to know what your "Plan" is to fix this problem you foresee, because most of us don't see how this is possible.

Let me set some ground rules though.

1. No Current NFL Franchise QB can be called upon for this change.

That rules out quarterbacks like the following:

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Tom Brady

Tony Romo sits to pee

Brett Favre

Ben Rothelisberger

Basically guys that have long term deals with their team or are just plain not likely to be let go.

2. If it's a draft pick your after, give the player's name and school, (Senior or Junior?) and a reason why you think bringing in a fresh rookie would be preferable. (Oh and if you have any idea, where do you think the Skins will be picking this player at (what round))

That having been said, I'm very interested in the answers

So right now we are looking at maybe the 13th Pick in the first round.

I agree, all these experts want him gone, but with no solution. I also want to know how they would handle the situation. Please don't say Todd Collins. Just exactly would you do if you were the coach?

[corrupt3d]

Romo sits to pee wasn't built in a day, so dont expect our franchise QB to be.

He sat on the bench for three years and learned the game from some good vets.

[Commander Adama]

Romo sits to pee wasn't built in a day.

That's actually quite funny.

[SnyderMustGo]

We want to know what your "Plan" is to fix this problem you foresee, because most of us don't see how this is possible.

For off, it is a logical fallacy to say that JC is the answer or good or the future merely because a definite alternative cannot be shown.

That is, even if I can't name someone who is a surefire Brady or Manning or Roth or Romo sits to pee, that doesn't mean JC is good or the franchise QB or anything else.

Much of what the "detractors" are saying is that the search for a QB needs to continue this off-season because JC hasn't shown anything for us to guarentee him the starting position for the future. So our (or, at least my) point is that we need to continue the search instead of pretending that we have found the answer.

Who to bring in? I'm not sure.

I am sure that JC is in the bottom half of the league, and he is not someone I am going to guarentee the franchise to for next year. If I was running it, I would bring in competition in the off-season and have open competition. If JC wins it, then great. If he doesn't, then great too. We just can't pretend we have the answer.

Most of the good QBs are locked into contracts, so talking about them as alternatives is silly.

Derek Anderson is a free agent, and I'd definitely bring him in if we could. I think he would handily beat out JC.

If we can't get him, then I would draft another QB if one is the BPA where we draft. It's way too early to be talking about specific names and where to draft them, but I'd definitely like Matt Ryan on our team.

So, in other words, my position with respect to JC is to continue the search instead of acting like we foolishly have solved it with JC. Because if we just pretend that he is an answer, then we sit around for another couple of seasons until he ultimately (and predictably) fails. At that point, we are sitting there with no alternatives and the franchise has wasted quality seasons.

JC is an option at QB. He is not the answer.

[corrupt3d]

you want Matt Ryan on our team?

if you thought Campbell's INT's were bad...at the UMD game one of the DB's got surprised that the ball was thrown right to him

[drowland]

I don't think Campbell's a bad QB. He just hasn't shown to be good in the clutch. That's bothersome to me. It's like watching Steve DeBerg play. He teases you with his potential, plays well enough to keep it close and then finds a way to lose it in the end. Maybe more experience and better WRs would help, but I always thought being clutch was a trait you either have or you don't.

[corrupt3d]

I mean, I'm willing to give the guy more time to develop, see how he does when he has a solid possession receiver to throw to (along with Cooley) as well as a solid O-line.

I really think that losing Jansen and Thomas early in the season hindered him somewhat.

[ttr77]

I don't think anyone can say for sure whether JC is the right man for this job or not. It's too early. He's shown glimpses of both the good and bad. But they better figure it out soon...he only has a couple years left on his cap-friendly rookie contract, right?

However, I would think that QB should not be the team's highest priority over the next offseason or 2. There are many other needs...

[Bat~man]

I hope he sures up his turnover problem, I like JC and really want him to be the QB here for a long time, it is at the moment very iffy whether or not he can be =| ... only time can tell and I hope he gets it together

[askounes]

I actually think JC is going to be a very good QB... he just needs to perform better in those clutch situations, and I think he will eventually do that.

[Soup]

Campbell is better than eli, McNabb, Vick, Garcia, instead of metioning who campbell is better than I will say the players that are better than he is:

Romo sits to pee

Farve

Brady

Palmer( but he is slipping)

Big Ben (superbowl winner)

manning

Brees

Last week campbell was ranked 10th in the league and with all the problems this team has had or is having, I say he is a good QB making Rookie mistakes. Can we all agree that he has become better than last year.

[Veretax]

For off, it is a logical fallacy to say that JC is the answer or good or the future merely because a definite alternative cannot be shown.

Okay, first off, I disagree that he NEEDS to go, I'm going on the "ASSUMPTION" for this thread that we decide as a franchise that he isn't the solution. I'm not arguing over whether or not it is or is not the right decision, I want to know what you as a Coach/GM/President would go about fixing this problem and just this problem. I know we have other needs as well, but I'm mainly interested in where you think we find a suitable replacement.

Most of the good QBs are locked into contracts, so talking about them as alternatives is silly.

Which is my point, so you have to identify who you think is a Free Agent or might be able to trade to get (I.e. very few choices already in the league)

Derek Anderson is a free agent, and I'd definitely bring him in if we could. I think he would handily beat out JC.

If we can't get him, then I would draft another QB is one is the BPA where we draft. It's way too early to be talking about specific names and where to draft them, but I'd definitely like Matt Ryan on our team.

Anderson is an interesting prospect, but Cleveland has had better line play and position play than us this year I believe. I'd almost bet he gets Franchised, but I wouldn't be the farm on that.

Does anyone have a list of "Quarterbacks" projected to turn pro in 2008? I only get about 14 from the site I normally visit for such things:

Rank Rating Name Yr Ht/Wt/40 College Home

QB 1 Matt Ryan SR 6-5/220/- Boston College Philadelphia, PA

QB 2 Colt Brennan SR 6-3/201/- Hawaii Santa Ana, CA

QB 3 Andre Woodson SR 6-5/230/- Kentucky Radcliff, KY

QB 4 Brian Brohm SR 6-4/226/- Louisville Louisville, KY

QB 5 Chad Henne SR 6-3/225/- Michigan West Lawn, PA

QB 6 Erik Ainge SR 6-6/220/- Tennessee Hillsboro, OR

QB 7 John David Booty SR 6-3/215/-USC Shreveport, LA

QB 8 Dennis Dixon SR 6-4/205/- Oregon San Leandro, CA

QB 9 Sam Keller SR 6-4/230/- Nebraska Danville, CA

QB 10 Blake Mitchell SR 6-3/211/- South Carolina LaGrange, GA

QB 11 Joe FlaccoSR 6-6/230/- Delaware Audubon, NJ

QB 12 Brandon Cox SR 6-2/207/- Auburn Trussville, AL

QB 13 Anthony Morelli SR 6-4/232/- Penn State Pittsburgh, PA

QB 14 Matt Flynn SR 6-3/227/- LSU Tyler, TX

Of those guys I figure one of them goes to Miam (I'm betting Beck and Lemmon aren't the answer, that's assuming they don't draft a different position though).

I'd expect Brohm to be gone before we pick (unless we trade up, but he's the epitomy of clutch, ULs losses haven't been on him most of the time.) Matt Ryan, strikes me as Average, and I've not seen Brennan playing to make a conclusion. Woodson is an interesting prospect, but I bet he's gone before our pick :/

[mojobo]

I'm going to go out on a limb at say that Jason Campbell will be a pro bowl QB next year and I fully believe this is the guy that will be looked at as the example of what a good QB will be.

[Buck812]

JC is a good enough QB to lead a good team. What he's not, is a a good enough QB to lead a bad team which is what we are right now. Until we change some of the parts around him he will continue to struggle and we don’t have the resources to fix what’s wrong anytime soon so you can expect him to continue to, or at least appear to continue to struggle.

I personally think he has played pretty well considering the games are now being placed solely on his shoulders without much protection from the OL and little ground support. You can also factor in his WRs or lack thereof but however you slice it, JC is the offenses biggest playmaker by far!

[terpskins10]

Who to bring in? I'm not sure.

I am sure that JC is in the bottom half of the league, and he is not someone I am going to guarentee the franchise to for next year. If I was running it, I would bring in competition in the off-season and have open competition. If JC wins it, then great. If he doesn't, then great too. We just can't pretend we have the answer.

Most of the good QBs are locked into contracts, so talking about them as alternatives is silly.

Derek Anderson is a free agent, and I'd definitely bring him in if we could. I think he would handily beat out JC.

QUOTE]

*sorry this turned out to be so long but I thought it needed to be said*

I think a lot of the people that share this view of yours somewhat ignore the business aspect of football because they want their Redskins to be good right away, season to season regardless of what their record was previously.

Football is a business. As much as people love watching the game and wanting their team to do well, it is rapidly becoming a business first, game second. Take that as you will. Whether we like it or not, that's what's going on.

The NFL draft works very analogously to the stock market because of the investments you put in. Someone like Jason Campbell was invested in with a first round draft choice. When you invest in a stock, you take a wait-and-see approach until you have a very clear indication that you need to get rid of it. You don't trade it away or give up on it right as it dips because that's no way to make money. You have to let it dip (take your lumps, if you will) and then wait for it to climb back up. If it doesn't, you sell. That will be the first thing most traders will tell you is that with certain stocks, you HAVE to be patient or you'll never get anywhere.

The Redskins are the same way. We showed impatience in Patrick Ramsey and after just his first full (11 games, anyway) season as a starter, he was replaced by someone 10 years older than him and his confidence was shaken and never regained. It isn't a coincidence that the fact that he wasn't able to develop his talent has resulted in a few poor seasons for our franchise.

Jason Campbell, right now, is our blue-chip stock because he was a first round choice and a lot was invested in him. This is his first real extended action of his career (I don't count last year because he played on a demoralized team and still seemed to somehow bring up their spirits) and he has shown some good things and some bad things. Kind of like a stock climbing up and then losing some money from quarter to quarter. Do you go ahead and sell now, while you've already lost some money and are scared to lose some more? Heck no. That's no way to get ahead anywhere. You stick with it and then, if you made the right choice, you will reap the benefits

greatly.

People get hung up on the fact that he has been in the league 3 years and other franchise caliber QBs that had been in the league for that time had shown the ability to be a franchise player by then. The difference is that most of these QBs either started games as rookies or were the top backup. Hardly any of these guys were inactive 3rd stringers for their first year and a half. Believe it or not, those few extra snaps in practice really do go a long way toward the development of the player.

I know Redskins fans as a whole, especially those who were fans back in the glory days, want to see results very quick and are very impatient. Hell, I'll say I am too. However, the game has changed and you have to realize that if you don't take risks and let your investments develop, your team will never be good.

We don't KNOW for a fact that bringing in someone like Derek Anderson would solidify the position. Sure, it's a good bet. But it's not certainty because for all we know, he could be a one year wonder. We also don't need to bring in another rookie because we have no idea if any of them will fare better than Campbell. We'd have to put up with THEIR growing pains just like we are right now with JC. I can bet that the guys that are impatient right now with JC would also be impatient if we brought in another rookie. The fact is is that no one is going to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning overnight. Not even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were.

What we DO know is that we have a young guy with all the talent in the world that knows our system and our players. He has the ability to be a good player and we have to rally around him rather than point out all his faults in his FIRST extended action as a starter as his career. Last year doesn't count because part of being a starting QB is taking the snaps in offseason camps and training camp. Let him develop without trying to tear him down because he isn't good right away. Being a clutch QB is learned, not inherent like most people want to believe.

Give the man some time. He has the talent and he can be a good QB. You just have to wait for the results. If we keep having QB turnover, we're never going to be good. We may have to go through another half season or season of Campbell's growing pains. Whatever. We're not close to anything right now anyway. Let him develop and a couple years down the road, we'll be glad we did.

[JRAB]

I've been vocal about how I think Campbell isn't the answer, so here's what I think:

First off, give Campbell the rest of this year to show something.

If he improves greatly by the last game, I'm ok with keeping him another year and hoping he turns into a good one.

If he is still playing the same, then I think we need to bring in competition for him this offseason. From where? I have no idea. Free agency, the draft, I don't know. Like I've said elsewhere... it isn't an easy question. If it was, then all 32 teams would have good QB's instead of just a few.

It is very difficult to find a good QB in the NFL, but if Campbell isn't improving by the end of the year, then it's time for us to start trying to find one.

Let Campbell continue to fight for the job and if he wins it, then fine. But if we have some decent competition for him and that guy wins the job, then sit Jason down.

Just because he's a first round pick with a "pedigree" (lord how I hate that word)... doesn't mean that we can't find an Anderson to compete against him.

I just don't want to see us stick with a guy who isn't good enough for 3 years or something. Just get some competition in here.

That's what I'd suggest. Finding that guy will be up to the Redskins.

[CallMeGreen]

I'm not sold on Campbell right now honestly. But I'd certainly give him most of another season to prove himself. He has also been the victim of a an injury-ravaged line, probably an underachieving set of receivers (as a whole) and his own ineptitude (fumbles, primarily) and indecisiveness. I think all of this can probably be fixed.

Under no circumstances do I use our #1, 2 or 3 pick next year on a QB. I think Brunell leaves this year and that leaves Collins as the backup one more season. The approach of drafting late (Jordan Palmer, 6th round) is a safer alternative than using a high pick, even though Palmer didn't stick this year. I believe carrying a young, cheap QB as the 3rd or on the PS is a financial and developmental decision that has to happen every year. If they eventually increase roster limits again, this becomes a bigger no-brainer. That's where your future QBs should come from. It's too hit or miss to "waste" a very high draft pick (along with cap dollars) on an unproven QB.

[Veretax]

Okay, did I not make it clear that I wanted "Specifics" I want to know who you think is better that we can get. If its a soon to be released NFL QB than who is he? If its a player going in the Draft then what school does he play for. You know this is like those polls that put X Candidates up and have a "Other" A lot of people will pick Other because they don't like any of the choices, but sub in any name in there and the votes don't necessarily go the way of that person.

I think we spent 2 draft picks on Campbell (one to trade up! and the one we used to pick him)

[PorkSkins]

OK, I'm not a believer. JC is not the answer IMO. This team needs a serious spark. Next year we will be another year older at the offensive line and other key defensive positions. We will need to score more points than we have this year. Right now I don't feel confident with a QB that stares down receivers, throws into coverage, overthrows deep passes, and has more turnovers than Pop Tarts.

In 2006 we were 2-5 under Campbell with everyone healthy on offense minus CP. We had a 1000 yard back in Betts. I believe his QB ranking was near last.

In 2007 we are 5-7. Yes, we are hurting at the offensive line but once again we will have another 1000 yard rusher. He has been put in to a position by the coaches to win almost every game. It's not like JC doesn't have a supporting cast.

I would of drafted Brady Quinn last year. He or Anderson may be available because the Brownies won't be able to keep both. Either are worth a look if they don't cost us too much. Washington has always been well known for it's QB controversies, why change now? Even if either of the Brownies QBs are not the answer, I would look to bring in some sort of competition.

[SnyderMustGo]

Okay, did I not make it clear that I wanted "Specifics" I want to know who you think is better that we can get. If its a soon to be released NFL QB than who is he? If its a player going in the Draft then what school does he play for. You know this is like those polls that put X Candidates up and have a "Other" A lot of people will pick Other because they don't like any of the choices, but sub in any name in there and the votes don't necessarily go the way of that person.

I think we spent 2 draft picks on Campbell (one to trade up! and the one we used to pick him)

What's your point? It's obvious you are trying to make one.

Apparently it will be something along the lines of "Even if JC isn't great, he's the best we can get right now."

Well excuse for thinking that is loser talk.

I've already explained the point. The search should continue instead of pretending JC is the answer. Who the other alternatives will be involves a whole litany of contigencies that we can't really predict it. You apparently think we should just commit to him as a franchise QB because we don't have a clear alternative now. I say you will waste this franchise by sitting around hoping he pans out and committing seasons to him. We must continue the search.

But you can go fly a kite if you think it is a legitmate argument to say "Shut up about JC because there isn't an obvious alternative."

As I said in my first comment, the absence of a clear alternative is no indication of the sufficiency of JC. He is not the answer. Not knowing who the answer is does not make JC the answer. It just makes him be the current placeholder until the answer is found.

[BKSkinsFan]

There's nothing wrong with bringing in some good backups, injuries happen all the time and QB is one of if not the most important position on the roster.

However, with young QBs they need time to develop. Giving up on them after some early mistakes in their career is foolish. Everyone makes mistakes early on, everyone. Look at what Peyton did this year throwing 6 INTs in 1 game. McNabb's struggled, Eli has struggled, Rivers, Brees, etc.

The fact is that it's hard to win in the NFL. When times get tough, that's when you need to really step back and keep your patience, otherwise you continually set yourself up for repeated failures by making rash angered decisions that you regret later on. Apparently many people never grasp this.

[terpskins10]

I would of drafted Brady Quinn last year. He or Anderson may be available because the Brownies won't be able to keep both. Either are worth a look if they don't cost us too much. Washington has always been well known for it's QB controversies, why change now? Even if either of the Brownies QBs are not the answer, I would look to bring in some sort of competition.

Please refer to my previous post on how the NFL draft is an investment and we aren't living in Madden world right now. You don't give up on a first round QB after seven games. Draft Brady Quinn? No offense, but I'm very glad you are not our GM.

Also, why change now because of our QB controversies? Because we aren't living in the Sonny Jurgensen/Billy Kilmer times and we actually have a salary cap and FA. Plus the fact that QB controversies haven't gotten us anywhere since FA was established.

[drowland]

Okay, did I not make it clear that I wanted "Specifics" I want to know who you think is better that we can get. If its a soon to be released NFL QB than who is he? If its a player going in the Draft then what school does he play for. You know this is like those polls that put X Candidates up and have a "Other" A lot of people will pick Other because they don't like any of the choices, but sub in any name in there and the votes don't necessarily go the way of that person.

I think we spent 2 draft picks on Campbell (one to trade up! and the one we used to pick him)

I think they used 3 picks to get Campbell.

They should stick with Campbell for now. What's unclear is the direction this organization will be going after this year. There's no gaureetee Gibbs or Saunders will be here next year. There could be new offensive coaches with a new philosophy.