mjah Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people's problem with Microsoft is that it is an American company. Which is a shame. That certainly isn't my impression. I think most people's problem with Microsoft is two-fold: 1) Microsoft's reputation for bloated, clunky software, which has nothing to do with where Microsoft is located; and 2) Microsoft's very well deserved reputation for highly anti-competitive business practices, which effectively prevent others from entering key software markets. I don't think either issue has anything to do with Microsoft being American. Particularly on the quality front, people seem willing to differentiate between American software and, say, American cars. But I have to agree that our nation's recent reputation as a smug, dimwitted bully surely doesn't help things. I don't know if American companies were ever the beneficiaries of friendly goodwill in the past due simply to being American -- but they sure aren't getting any goodwill today. And LOL at the idea that Microsoft should just pull out of the European market. The potential software market in the EU is as big as the AMERICAN market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people's problem with Microsoft is that it is an American company. Which is a shame...... Where did this come from? I could not disagree more. I think Microsoft earned its reputation fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people's problem with Microsoft is that it is an American company. Which is a shame...... Where did this come from? I could not disagree more. I think Microsoft earned its reputation fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 2) Microsoft's very well deserved reputation for highly anti-competitive business practices, which effectively prevent others from entering key software markets. Where is the hate for Airbus? Sony? Toshiba? ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 2) Microsoft's very well deserved reputation for highly anti-competitive business practices, which effectively prevent others from entering key software markets. Where is the hate for Airbus? Sony? Toshiba? ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people don't remember the 1980s where Toshiba stole top secret plans from the United States government and sold them to the Soviets. And I'm guessing a lot of you in this thread own a Toshiba product, and couldn't care less. But lets not derail this thread. We were talking about ethics. Continue. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people don't remember the 1980s where Toshiba stole top secret plans from the United States government and sold them to the Soviets. And I'm guessing a lot of you in this thread own a Toshiba product, and couldn't care less. But lets not derail this thread. We were talking about ethics. Continue. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people don't remember the 1980s where Toshiba stole top secret plans from the United States government and sold them to the Soviets.And I'm guessing a lot of you in this thread own a Toshiba product, and couldn't care less. But lets not derail this thread. We were talking about ethics. Continue. .... Wow, you are right. That was a derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people don't remember the 1980s where Toshiba stole top secret plans from the United States government and sold them to the Soviets.And I'm guessing a lot of you in this thread own a Toshiba product, and couldn't care less. But lets not derail this thread. We were talking about ethics. Continue. .... Wow, you are right. That was a derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Wow, you are right.That was a derail. Yes, let's keep this about dirty business practices and the effect it has on a customer's perception of a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Wow, you are right.That was a derail. Yes, let's keep this about dirty business practices and the effect it has on a customer's perception of a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 People have a choice of what they want to buy they are just dumb and uninformed if they think they don't have a choice. I haven't really heard a lot of consumers complain about MS and its business practices. MS is smart...if we can't beat you, we will buy you. They do the same thing that other companies do. How is it unfair? Because they include IE with their software? Hell, I use Firefox because it is better. Oh wait, they charge you more for a license if you put AOL on you system if you are dell or some other computer builder. Well, that is Dell's choice to pay that. Fact is, they should not have to release any of their source code to anyone and they should be able to charge whatever price they wanted. If you want to beat them, make a better product. Oh wait...If you make a better product, they will buy you out.....and the problem is what? I mean its not like MS is slowing down developement, they keep pushing the bar higher and higher. Yeah they make a ton of money but really $200 or less is not a lot to pay for an OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 People have a choice of what they want to buy they are just dumb and uninformed if they think they don't have a choice. I haven't really heard a lot of consumers complain about MS and its business practices. MS is smart...if we can't beat you, we will buy you. They do the same thing that other companies do. How is it unfair? Because they include IE with their software? Hell, I use Firefox because it is better. Oh wait, they charge you more for a license if you put AOL on you system if you are dell or some other computer builder. Well, that is Dell's choice to pay that. Fact is, they should not have to release any of their source code to anyone and they should be able to charge whatever price they wanted. If you want to beat them, make a better product. Oh wait...If you make a better product, they will buy you out.....and the problem is what? I mean its not like MS is slowing down developement, they keep pushing the bar higher and higher. Yeah they make a ton of money but really $200 or less is not a lot to pay for an OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes, let's keep this about dirty business practices and the effect it has on a customer's perception of a company. If Toshiba dominated the personal electronics industry the way Microsoft dominates the software industry, you might have a point. The thread is about antitrust issues, which is what has gotten Microsoft into trouble. Frankly, one of the few things I LIKE about Microsoft is that they are American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yes, let's keep this about dirty business practices and the effect it has on a customer's perception of a company. If Toshiba dominated the personal electronics industry the way Microsoft dominates the software industry, you might have a point. The thread is about antitrust issues, which is what has gotten Microsoft into trouble. Frankly, one of the few things I LIKE about Microsoft is that they are American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalDragon Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yeah they make a ton of money but really $200 or less is not a lot to pay for an OS. It depends who you are, and that is at the root of one anti trust case where Microsoft was found to be a monopoly. If you are IBM for example and were about to release OS/2 a compeditor to Microsofts Windows, Microsoft charged you 50$ more per copy than your compeditors for their software; putting you at an effective disadvantage in one of your main businesses because you dared to compete against Microsoft.If you were DELL or Compact, who were thinking of putting AOL software on your machines Microsoft likewise would choose to sell them more expensive softwre liscenses. Play nice and don't help any of Microsofts compeditors and their software became much more affordable. Well I was talking about those who buy the OS seperate. I build my own PCs and I was lucky to get XP through my college for a low price. I have some old PCs that I cannot afford to buy any Microsoft OS to install on them (soon enough XP won't even be available for purchase and these are not going to be able to handle Vista). $287 for a retail copy of XP Pro SP2, there is something wrong when it costs that much for an operating system. $320 for the Ultimate version of Vista, although I haven't used it I've read its just as ****ty as other Microsoft products. If they had any decent competition, these prices would not be this high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalDragon Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Yeah they make a ton of money but really $200 or less is not a lot to pay for an OS. It depends who you are, and that is at the root of one anti trust case where Microsoft was found to be a monopoly. If you are IBM for example and were about to release OS/2 a compeditor to Microsofts Windows, Microsoft charged you 50$ more per copy than your compeditors for their software; putting you at an effective disadvantage in one of your main businesses because you dared to compete against Microsoft.If you were DELL or Compact, who were thinking of putting AOL software on your machines Microsoft likewise would choose to sell them more expensive softwre liscenses. Play nice and don't help any of Microsofts compeditors and their software became much more affordable. Well I was talking about those who buy the OS seperate. I build my own PCs and I was lucky to get XP through my college for a low price. I have some old PCs that I cannot afford to buy any Microsoft OS to install on them (soon enough XP won't even be available for purchase and these are not going to be able to handle Vista). $287 for a retail copy of XP Pro SP2, there is something wrong when it costs that much for an operating system. $320 for the Ultimate version of Vista, although I haven't used it I've read its just as ****ty as other Microsoft products. If they had any decent competition, these prices would not be this high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well I was talking about those who buy the OS seperate. I build my own PCs and I was lucky to get XP through my college for a low price. I have some old PCs that I cannot afford to buy any Microsoft OS to install on them (soon enough XP won't even be available for purchase and these are not going to be able to handle Vista). $287 for a retail copy of XP Pro SP2, there is something wrong when it costs that much for an operating system. $320 for the Ultimate version of Vista, although I haven't used it I've read its just as ****ty as other Microsoft products.If they had any decent competition, these prices would not be this high. OEM is your friend if you are building systems. You don't need the retail. What do you need a retail copy for? MS Vista Ultimate 64 bit 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116215 MS Vista Ultimate 32 bit 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116213 Home Premium 111.99 (all you really need, unless you are a techie) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116213 MS XPSP2 139.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 They do the same things retail does. This is the software that powers your system not bad cosidering that you pay $50 for a game. I guess if you want to find another option you can get this linux based one on the cheap. Xandros 27.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832106024 If you got a mac you can get this Tiger 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832110017 But hey who is complaining that Apple is charging almost the same price for its OS. I have Vista Ultimate 32 bit. I love it and I have had very few problems with my rig. The only real software problem I have run into is that some older xp games wont' work with it. Other than that it is smooth. It is much better at managing your memory. It learns how you use your computer so it optimizes your memory usage so you are getting max value. It has a lot of other nifty features also that I enjoy. It makes things easier than XP. The ONLY complaint I have with MS is that I wanted to upgrade to the 64 bit version so I could make use of 4 gigs of RAM, however they don't allow you to upgrade the OEM version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well I was talking about those who buy the OS seperate. I build my own PCs and I was lucky to get XP through my college for a low price. I have some old PCs that I cannot afford to buy any Microsoft OS to install on them (soon enough XP won't even be available for purchase and these are not going to be able to handle Vista). $287 for a retail copy of XP Pro SP2, there is something wrong when it costs that much for an operating system. $320 for the Ultimate version of Vista, although I haven't used it I've read its just as ****ty as other Microsoft products.If they had any decent competition, these prices would not be this high. OEM is your friend if you are building systems. You don't need the retail. What do you need a retail copy for? MS Vista Ultimate 64 bit 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116215 MS Vista Ultimate 32 bit 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116213 Home Premium 111.99 (all you really need, unless you are a techie) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116213 MS XPSP2 139.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059 They do the same things retail does. This is the software that powers your system not bad cosidering that you pay $50 for a game. I guess if you want to find another option you can get this linux based one on the cheap. Xandros 27.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832106024 If you got a mac you can get this Tiger 179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832110017 But hey who is complaining that Apple is charging almost the same price for its OS. I have Vista Ultimate 32 bit. I love it and I have had very few problems with my rig. The only real software problem I have run into is that some older xp games wont' work with it. Other than that it is smooth. It is much better at managing your memory. It learns how you use your computer so it optimizes your memory usage so you are getting max value. It has a lot of other nifty features also that I enjoy. It makes things easier than XP. The ONLY complaint I have with MS is that I wanted to upgrade to the 64 bit version so I could make use of 4 gigs of RAM, however they don't allow you to upgrade the OEM version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalDragon Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased. I thought that applied to all of Microsoft's OS but Vistas don't show that message, I need XP for the older PCs. I've read most versions of Linux are free, I'm just too lazy to learn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalDragon Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased. I thought that applied to all of Microsoft's OS but Vistas don't show that message, I need XP for the older PCs. I've read most versions of Linux are free, I'm just too lazy to learn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased.I thought that applied to all of Microsoft's OS but Vistas don't show that message, I need XP for the older PCs. I've read most versions of Linux are free, I'm just too lazy to learn it. What part of VA are you in? If you are around Alexandria, look up Advanced 2000 computers. I know they will sell you a copy of XP OEM. I bet Newegg would sell you one. I think they have to put that on there for MS. But I know for a fact that A2000 will sell you one in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Qualifying proof of purchase must be recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased.I thought that applied to all of Microsoft's OS but Vistas don't show that message, I need XP for the older PCs. I've read most versions of Linux are free, I'm just too lazy to learn it. What part of VA are you in? If you are around Alexandria, look up Advanced 2000 computers. I know they will sell you a copy of XP OEM. I bet Newegg would sell you one. I think they have to put that on there for MS. But I know for a fact that A2000 will sell you one in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people's problem with Microsoft is that it is an American company. Which is a shame...... I'm pretty sure this is why people hate Microsoft: It's not like people are flocking to foreign-made operating systems. Microsoft haters go to Apple (an American company) or Linux (not really a company and not really tied to a particular country, but IBM and Sun and Red Hat are all American). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Most people's problem with Microsoft is that it is an American company. Which is a shame...... I'm pretty sure this is why people hate Microsoft: It's not like people are flocking to foreign-made operating systems. Microsoft haters go to Apple (an American company) or Linux (not really a company and not really tied to a particular country, but IBM and Sun and Red Hat are all American). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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