Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 As I've said before, I'd like to trade down from #13 and pick up an extra #2 if possible. That would leave us with a low #1, a high #2, and a low #2 -- which I'd use for two OL players (preferably a guard and a center) and a safety. Previously I've suggested getting Boss Bailey (LB) and moving him to safety. I'm now looking through natural safety candidates. Here's one: Mike Doss, a three-time All-American safety from OSU. He's been projected as a possible low-first-round pick. He might be good value if he's still around by our regular 2nd round pick. Here are a few accolades from a media profile: Staying at Ohio State for his final season enabled Doss to become only the seventh three-time All-American in school history. He was a finalist for the Thorpe Award, given to the nation's top defensive back, was named Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year by vote of the coaches and earned Associated Press first-team All-America accolades. Doss has been ranked as the best safety by both Mel Kiper and Last Story. Doss showed he was ready for the big game -- in the Fiesta Bowl, with OSU down 7-0, he made an INT and a 35-yard return that set up OSU's first TD on a short 17-yard drive. Some scouts have poked at him for not being perfect, but we can't afford perfect at safety. I'm hoping the scouts keep mouthing off and he drops to where we can get him in the second round. (His positives are that he's a major playmaker and a big hitter; his negatives are a lack of pure speed and the fact that he has been burned from time to time. See Draftbook for more detailed positives and negatives.) Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 i'd rather have Holt.. Doss doesn't do much for me.. and he got burnt bad for Miami's first TD in the National Championship.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I'd rather have Boss Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 i like doss. when he tackles, he brings it. a tough dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan Doss showed he was ready for the big game -- in the Fiesta Bowl, with OSU down 7-0, he made an INT and a 35-yard return that set up OSU's first TD on a short 17-yard drive. to reiterate my 1st post, OSU was down 7-0 because Doss got smoked... and if i'm not mistaken, the INT he had was off a deflection... don't get me wrong, it's still a pick, but deflections don't rate as high in my book... and if he's known to get burnt from time to time, isn't he just a David Terrell Jr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Awards, schmawards. They mean nothing when it comes to projecting how well a player will do in the NFL. Hell, Antoine Winfield won the Jim Thorpe award over Champ in 1999. Every year a Nebraska player wins the Outland or some other award for lineman and they never amount to $hit. I don't even need to go into the Heisman curse, and that's the most prestigious of all awards. 1) From what I gather, there isn't one DB worthy of first round consideration. I realize you said the second round, but in my opinion we should not neglect the Dline in either the first OR second round. The one exception is if there is a player who is available a full round after he should have gone. So if Doss is considered a 2nd round player (the late great Joel Buschbaum considered him such) he should not be considered by us until ROUND 3. Why? 2)He is a true strong safety. We have a hole at free safety. He isn't even a great strong safety prospect either. He is short and gets beat quite often in coverage. Especially by the deep ball. He has made big plays but he has also given up an alarming # of big plays. Note: Just b/c Kiper has a guy listed in his top 25, doesnt mean that that is where he believes they will go. Eric Steinbach may be better at his position (Guard) than Eli Manning but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be taken first. Also, I believe Troy Palomalu to be the best safety prospect- not Doss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 I wish writers, journalists, publications and anything and everything related to the NFL draft would make the distinction between strong safety and free safety. Doss is a strong safety and even though I'm not sold on Ifeanyi Ohalete as our strong safety, our greater need is at free safety. My choice if we pick a free safety in the draft would be Terrence Holt of NC State. We could probably get him in the late 2nd or early third. Not only is he the best free safety in college, he's a special teams ace. I don't have his numbers for this year but up to this year he's blocked 7 FG's and 2 punts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Originally posted by Nighthawk My choice if we pick a free safety in the draft would be Terrence Holt of NC State. We could probably get him in the late 2nd or early third. Not only is he the best free safety in college, he's a special teams ace. I don't have his numbers for this year but up to this year he's blocked 7 FG's and 2 punts. we think alike :high: however, i'm sold on Ohalete... he's still young so give him some time... he's played great in pass coverage and he's starting to lay some hits on RB's... for an undrafted free agent in his 2nd year, i think he's done great... let him develop... but i do agree 100% on Holt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yank Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Iffy might be able to move over to FS if we can get a better SS. He had a few games where he was confused, but he made alot of plays on the ball - many, many more than Terrell. For only starting at SS about half the season, Iffy had 3 INTs and took one to the house. DT had 2 for the whole season which is very poor for a FS. He played FS in college and was on the Pre-draft lists as a FS. He's not the fastest cat in the litter but neither was Mark Murphy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Terrell is not a safety -- he's a nickel corner (and a good one too) Marty's ingenious moved him to SS and the plan didn't work out if we need a corner that bad, move Terrell back not sure if he'd go along with it after he's started for 2 years, but whatever... he's not starting SS material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 9, 2003 Author Share Posted January 9, 2003 Originally posted by THiTo11 Terrell is not a safety -- he's a nickel corner (and a good one too) Marty's ingenious moved him to SS and the plan didn't work out if we need a corner that bad, move Terrell back not sure if he'd go along with it after he's started for 2 years, but whatever... he's not starting SS material As I've said before, I think the best FS on our roster is Bauman. He would have more impact at starting FS than nickel corner. Great speed, great coverage, great hitting. A little small, but I'll take small over slow and out of position. Maybe we put Bauman at FS and Terrell back to nickel CB. If Bauman becomes a starting FS, we'd likely be able to re-sign him when his contract expires. As it is, I expect we won't, if we keep a starting-caliber player like him in a reserve role. I've kept the Bauman-as-FS idea fairly quiet, knowing that Lewis would never consider such an idea (he didn't think of it first). But if Lewis moves on, maybe this is an option the new DC can consider. It could save a high #2 draft pick, which is what it may take to get a starting-caliber FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan As I've said before, I think the best FS on our roster is Bauman. He would have more impact at starting FS than nickel corner. Great speed, great coverage, great hitting. A little small, but I'll take small over slow and out of position. Maybe we put Bauman at FS and Terrell back to nickel CB. If Bauman becomes a starting FS, we'd likely be able to re-sign him when his contract expires. As it is, I expect we won't, if we keep a starting-caliber player like him in a reserve role. I've kept the Bauman-as-FS idea fairly quiet, knowing that Lewis would never consider such an idea (he didn't think of it first). But if Lewis moves on, maybe this is an option the new DC can consider. It could save a high #2 draft pick, which is what it may take to get a starting-caliber FS. no Bauman is a solid nickel corner and if anything, maybe *eventually* he can battle Smoot for the #2... if you move Bauman to FS, it's the same experiment Marty did with Terrell... it failed once, why risk trying it again? draft Holt or another FS-by-nature and let them play... i hate moving players to positions they are not accustomed to... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... but why risk it when you can get someone who *plays* that position naturally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 You should experiment with your backups, not your starters and that's where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Diggler Also, I believe Troy Palomalu to be the best safety prospect- not Doss. Agreed! And we can probably steal him in the very late first if we trade down. ASF I've kept the Bauman-as-FS idea fairly quiet, knowing that Lewis would never consider such an idea (he didn't think of it first). Why in the world would we put 5'8" 180 lb cornerback at FS? We tried Terrell (6'0" 180) and you want to get smaller? Look, speed is important at FS, but making the right decisions so you're in the right position is much more important. And being able to bring a load with you to knock the snot out of someone when you get there is just as important. Bauman ain't gonna scare anyone at FS. Lots of big WRs in the league would love to wrestle him for a ball -- and you might think he's a big hitter, but I bet his 5'8" 180 lb butt will bounce right off some of those 6'2" 220 lb WRs. You're taking a really good nickle corner -- who could start on lots of teams -- and turning him into something that he's not. I'm tired of half-measures. Let's not convert some tiny CB into a FS. Let's get us a head-hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Sorry ASF, but 2 words: Jeremy Shockey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Ahhhhhhhh it's good to be right. I believe we already have one of these safeties... From Yomar's post earlier: "Doss is a hard-hitting, playmaking safety, but matching up one-on-one in drills in a practice situation like this does not help his value. He struggled on Tuesday during press coverage drills and he frequently got beat on one-on-one matchups against slot receivers. " ---East West Shrine practices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Bauman is a player who, at corner, with corner skills, fell to the third round solely because his size was a concern. ASF, are you seriously saying a guy who had small worries about corner, where he has played and understands the position and has skills to play the position, would be better off at a position where a bigger guy is generally looked for? This is so mind boggling I don't even know what's wrong with you. A guy who may be too small for corner you want to move to free safety? We'd get slaughtered. Bauman has shown no capacity whatsoever for playing in space either. He's a strong man cover guy. Terrell's weakness is playing in space, because he was a corner too not used to the zone. I can't believe I'm even reading this suggestion here. Bauman is a corner. We need him at corner. We want him at corner. That's where he's going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Believe it. One of a couple of times. I believe this was the most recent before this on Bauman. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19368&highlight=Bauman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I don't know how I missed that thread PCS. I guess I was busy at the time. When the cat's away, the mice will play . Man, this idea is just not thoughtful at all given what we currently know of Bauman. It's just not something to even remotely entertain at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 No friggin way ASF. Mike Doss couldn't cover my grandmother with a bedspead, in that he can't play man-to-man that well. He's another Sam Shade clone. :laugh: Instead IF we are going to draft a FS we should draft Rashean Mathis of Bethune-Cookman in the 2nd round [assuming he drops], who had 31 INT's and a 17.1 punt return average. He also ran a 4.42 at 6-1, 190 lbs, and can also play cornerback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Say what you want about Doss, but the guy is a gamer & a leader on & off the field. I agree that he does not have ideal size, but he is far from being small & has a solid build, similar to Panther S Mike Minter. When comparing Doss to Polamalu, Polamalu is more of a SS type & IMO, would have a tough time adjusting to FS as he played close to the LOS for USC. Doss on the other hand played in more of a cover 2 system this past yr & while he allowed some long passes, he also had more than his share on INT's especially in big games. There is a chance taht other S may go before Doss, but when all is said & done, he'll end up being the best Sin the 2003 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Hmm. Mike Doss "had more then his share of INT's, especially in big games?" He had a grand total of 1 INT this season. [see below] :laugh: And he has never had more then 3 INT's in any one season. We don't need another friggin Sam Shade clone. :laugh: http://www.draftnotebook.com/s.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 If Holt was there in the third he would be the best man on the board for us. He has 12 blocked Punts/FG's and is a difference maker. When the game is on the line and NC State D or ST were on the field you would see him making plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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