*SPEAKING UPDATE* Sam Brownback Speaking at My Church(?) Next Week

[Fergasun]

I attend a non-denominational church, and really respect the pastor. Due to some personal relationship between an former pastor and Sam Brownback, Mr. Brownback is going to be speaking at the church service I normally attend next week (and only that one).

I talked this over with my wife, and while I'm not going to flame the pastor, I'm going to attend a different service. This really makes me angry and wonder about why our pastor would do this. First of all, I'd have no problem if it was not the "normal" Sunday service (there is a Sunday night service). But I really do think a Pastor should speak at that service. Second of all, my wife was talking about Christian politicians and said it best: "They say politicians have to do 10 things wrong to get elected... the Christian politician only does 5 things wrong...". So basically, maybe he's not as bad as most politicians, I still think politician is a pretty shady occupation, nearly the opposite of pastor. I know there are a few local officials that are pastors, but Mr. Brownback is not one... leading me back to point a. Third, I'm worried about any potential issues with our church losing non-profit status. They normally will stream services too, so I plan on capturing the service to hear what is said. Fourth, I don't like the idea of politicians going to churches... wait that was number 2, but it's just really wrong. Fifth, I feel like our church is being mis-led. My pastor said something like, "He's a Senator and running for President, he could be the next President".... Brownback is a joke. Sixth, I know he's going to come to speak about abortion, but I'm so fed up with politicians now that I'd like to give him a mouthful on other issues. This is the guy who freakin' changed his vote on the immigration bill when he realized it was going to lose. Integrity?! Seventh, he lost all my respect when he was given an award by "La Raza". Yes, that's a Mexican organization that translates to "the race". I know he supports immigration reform due to big-agriculture... oh that's reason #8 to oppose him speaking at our church.

After looking at this I do feel like sending an e-mail to our church pastor... although I doubt he's worried about losing tax-exempt status. I know I have personal reasons, but there are plenty of other non reasons to oppose a politician from speaking in a church. Did I mention politician approval ratings are like 20% now? Really, I know this guy fights against abortion, but there are plenty of others who do too...

Rant off... trying not to identify what church it is. It even feels like he's pandering to us... I hate being pandered to... especially by someone who doesn't can't even state his position with great logic and persuasion...

[prophet]

I think brownback is a decent man, but some of his voting habits confuse me.

The church would only lose it's 501c3 status if the pastor asked the church memebers to vote for sam brownback.

Another church in Ca recently had both Brownback & Obama at some conference they were having on aids or something like that.

[ldysknzfn1]

Churches around here are always letting politicians speak at their services around election time. I guess it drums up support they think they need to win. We've never had one to speak at the church I attend. It's too small of a congregation to matter at crunch time:) .

We often have guest Pastors tho..Our pastor goes on trips to conventions and preaches at other churches in our diocese for their revivals during the spring & summer and he takes a family vacation to visit his mom(she lives CA where he's originally from)so guest pastors are not that uncommon. Just letting you know that we don't always get our pastor's sermons on Sundays.

Anyhoo...I think you're doing what you feel comfortable with in not attending the service. If it makes you feel better let your pastor know that you didn't like it...it may not change anything but at least you'll get it off of your chest and he'll know how you feel. And once you do that...others may be inclined to do it as well...and if enuff do it...it may cease.

God Bless

[JMS]

I don't think Brownback is a decent man. I think he's a one trick pony. I think he's strongly against abortion, and if you get him off that topic he's a dangerous faith based reasoner. No thought, but reflexive in his actions. A dogmatist in a changing world which calls for interpretation and intelect from our leaders rather than memorization. A man who claims to know Gods will, which both makes him intransigent when called to compromise with others and someone who looks down disrespectfully on those who don't agree with him; When he has no business doing so.

I think Brownback is everything I dislike most in Bush / Cheney; distilled down and concentrated. I don't find him particularly Christian, nor moral.

[prophet]

I don't find him particularly Christian, nor moral.

Do you consider youself to be either of these?

[Fergasun]

He spoke. I didn't want to go, so we ended up going last night and went to Malibu Beach instead. My church does a web stream, so I ended up streaming it and now I'm watching. Going in I figured he would talk mostly about abortion... he joked that he is a "bleeding heart conservative"... sounded about it. Not as much focus on one subject as I thought. Associate pastor gave a speech about how church cannot endorse any candidate.

Basically his speech was nothing new to me... it basically reinforces what our head pastor endorses... he is very close with the people doing "The Call". Our church knows about these issues, so I don't regret choosing the beach over this. The associate pastor gave a much better message about family communication, husband-wife that my wife and I can use (at the Saturday night service).

As expected he didn't quote from the Bible... so I still felt it was inappropriate to have him there. I didn't send an angry e-mail in protest... don't think its worth division over. In case anyone is wondering what he said here are a few notes I jotted down.

1) Told a few anecdotes to warm up the crowd.

2) Talked about his involvement with "The Call" in Nashville yesterday.

3) Mainly interested in abortion, and racial reconciliation. Was at Nashville yesterday to apologize as government official to African Americans and Native Americans.

4) Working on legislation to officially apologize for slavery and treatment of Native Americans... this is through committee (although it seems like its been blocked before).

5) Some states have already apologized, thinks it's a good thing since our government had slave laws and Jim Crow laws on the book.

6) Apologized to Latino Americans... they feel excluded from this country (this part would've pissed me off if I was there). Very divisive immigration debate.

7) "For the last 100 years the group coming in isn't good enough for the people that got here, even though we all came from somewhere else, except the Native Americans"

8) Apologized for Roe vs. Wade. Killed nearly 40 million people.

9) If you see a child with down syndrome, give them a hug. 90% of babies with down syndrome have been aborted.

10) Society is measured by how it treats the weak, poor, and those in most difficult circumstances (like people with down syndrome).

11) Wants a national registry for people willing to adopt down syndrome children, admits its a difficult circumstance.

12) Pray for our society, we need righteousness and justice. Republicans are righteous (know right and wrong) but don't have justice (actions doesn't follow knowledge). Democrats are all about justice, but don't look at righteousness.

13) Child in womb is sacred, child in Darfur is sacred, man in prison is sacred, man on the streets is sacred, all sacred and holy under God.

14) Works on prison re-citivism (?), need to work with people in prison to help them stay out again... 66% of people in prison will return. Went into Louisiana State prison and Kansas State prison... some programs have gotten re-citivism down to 10%. That's our goals.

15) Encouraged people to take a missions/impact trip to Africa.

16) Need better political solution in Iraq. Proposal is to split up Iraq into 3-states (done in Yugoslavia and probably will be done in Sudan)

17) We need to re-built the family unit in America, families are where values come from.

18) Stupid to debate if it takes a family or village... after raising 5 kids are willing to take anyone willing to help out. Grew up in small farming community, no time to get into trouble because everyone knew me.

19) We need faith in the government. Separation of Church and state is to keep the state out of the church, not the other way around. Does not mean removing faith from public square. Not for a theocracy, it would be a bad thing.

20) How do you understand abolitionists/Abraham Lincoln without faith? How do you understand founding of country without faith? How do you understand Martin Luther King without faith?

21) Ended with anecdote about Mother Teresa... she was given Congressional Medal of Honor and wanted to melt down the gold to sell. He thought it was odd Mother Theresa and her sisters asked all the politicians to pray for them.... its politicians who need prayer from everyone (government leaders). When he said goodbye to Mother Teresa she repeated 3 words four times... "All for Jesus."

[Fergasun]

I will say I don't think Brownback is a joke... it's funny how you make judgements based on what other people say or what your preconceived notions of "an enemy" would be. I thought he was a decently well spoken man, but it was almost like hearing him give a political speech... rather than a Sunday Morning teaching. Again, this is nothing new.

Even though he was well spoken, there are still things I disagree with him.... specifically immigration... but now I have some understanding of his position.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I respect Brownback for the prison thing. I read a story about that a couple of months ago; about how he stayed overnight in a prison. I don't particularly think religion is the cure all, save all for the ridiculous recidivism rate but I applaud anyone making an effort.

I wonder what his stance on the death penalty is.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Fergasun, as a pastor myself I share your exact same concerns. Politicians are free to attend my church, they are however not free to campaign. Not just because of our 501c3 status, but because if I allow a politician to speak I am in some way advocating for that candidate. Think of it as the pastor's "I'm Rev. so-and-so, and I approve of this message." The other reason is that I do not make the assumption that everyone in my church agrees with me politically and I do not feel that it is my responsibility to turn the pulpit over to a political candidate who is simply trying to earn votes.

I also agree that if this was a special service at a different time of the week then things might be different especially if a forum was open to other political candidates.