I'm still waiting.

[Art]

A number of folks here are of the mind that Dan Snyder is the root of all evil and anything he touches turns to sh!t. And yet, none have come out and spoken of the horrible move he made to retain Jansen. Or his horrible move to engineer Gardener's arrival and his retention. We know these are bad ideas because Snyder is the driving force. So come on guys. You're so loud and proud in October when Jansen doesn't accept the first formal contract offer he's given. Why aren't you as loud and proud today when Snyder makes yet another mistake, as is all Snyder can do in your worlds?

[Brave]

Don't forget about the excitement surrounding turning the team over to Ramsey ... extensively reported to be a Snyder (not Spurrier) pick.

[PCS]

Oh yea? Wellllllllllllllllllllll wait till they try to find a place to park at Fed EX.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

i'd like to add this to your post:

But the sides stayed at it, and found a middle ground that each could live with. Since the offseason, Mendes has preached to other Redskins officials about staying disciplined and spending wisely, and the Redskins did not increase the overall value of their offer to Jansen much. But they agreed to restructure their proposal and increase the signing bonus, and Smith credited Redskins owner Daniel Snyder for seeing to it that the agreement got done.

"We had a tough negotiation," the agent said. "At the end of the day, Mr. Snyder stepped up and rewarded Jon, and Jon took himself off the market. In terms of character and loyalty, Jon is a throwback."

(from today's WP)

[@DCGoldPants]

that quote would never make the national media unless Danny owned fox news or something.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Bufford

that quote would never make the national media unless Danny owned fox news or something.

i wonder if the Times published that? :laugh:

[tex]

Things are looking up. The FO folks are starting to get it. A few more smart moves such as the Jansen signing and who knows, maybe they start winning again.

[redskin56]

I've always liked Snyder's attitude toward the Redskins. All he wants to do is win and as a fan, that's what I want as well. I have never doubted his intentions or his desire. What I have questioned is his ability to be patient and let things work. I think he is learning that he has to trust his decisions and let them play out rather than second guessing himself and making a change that comes back to be more detrimental to the team in the short term.

[Hersh]

IMO, this is Snyder's first opportunity to sign a young player to a contract extension and he came through. He definitely deserves credit for it. However, my biggest problem with Snyder has been with the constant turnover of the front office and with the coaching staff and never with his willness to spend on players. It remains to be seen what will happen with those two departments over the offseason. My second problem with him is really an unsubstaniated one. It's about who's making the decisions regarding who we sign or draft and why. I think snyder has made a mistake in not having a GM that makes final decisions. I know that having a GM doesn't automatically mean superbowl, but it's disturbing to me when we hear that x was snyder's pick or y was mendes pick that was forced onto spurrier.

[riggins44]

I've questioned some of Dan Snyder's moves. He earned my respect when he gave Darrell a new contract couple of years ago.

He's kept my respect by planning ceremony for Darrell before

Dallas game and planning to retire his jersey.

I've never questioned Snyder's business acumen. His heart is

the right place. The mistakes he's made were basically from

lack of knowledge on how to run a football team.

The players have coaches and are taught the game from their

early ages. There is no class, coaches, or instructions on how

to be an owner. He's learning the hard way.

[Brave]

Originally posted by redskin56

I think he is learning that he has to trust his decisions and let them play out rather than second guessing himself and making a change that comes back to be more detrimental to the team in the short term.

56, which of Snydeer's major decisions should he have let play out?

- Firing Norv?

- Letting go of the high-priced vets acquired during the 2000 Gold Rush?

- Canning Marty to get Spurrier, who he originally wanted?

I'm not saying this team doesn't desperately need some continuity. But that's a result of circumstances as well as Snyder.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Hersh

However, my biggest problem with Snyder has been with the constant turnover of the front office and with the coaching staff and never with his willness to spend on players.

willness to spend on players? i'm assuming your talking about Redskin players and not other free agents... do you remember 2000?

Originally posted by Hersh

It remains to be seen what will happen with those two departments over the offseason. My second problem with him is really an unsubstaniated one. It's about who's making the decisions regarding who we sign or draft and why. I think snyder has made a mistake in not having a GM that makes final decisions. I know that having a GM doesn't automatically mean superbowl, but it's disturbing to me when we hear that x was snyder's pick or y was mendes pick that was forced onto spurrier.

i'm tired of all this GM talk... i'm sure no ONE pick is any ONE person's decision... they work as a team (of course with some having more power than others), but overall, it's a group pick resulting from a group effort... the media breaks it down as you said, but i am sure behind the scenes, everyone is working together... maybe not everyone gets along or agrees on everything, but if anything, that's a positive... would a GM work better? who knows... unlike most people here, i've been happy with what Snyder has done... unfortunately for him, it's always backfired...

[SkinsThug]

I think Snyder sucks but as I noted in another thread, I'm pleased with this move.

Now he only needs 999 positive moves like that to win me back over.:laugh:

[Larry Brown #43]

Originally posted by redskin56

I've always liked Snyder's attitude toward the Redskins. All he wants to do is win and as a fan, that's what I want as well. I have never doubted his intentions or his desire. What I have questioned is his ability to be patient and let things work.

I think this is perfectly well said. I don't think anyone -- not even the most ardent Snyder haters -- doubts that Snyder WANTS to win. And I appreciate that he is willing to spend money. And he certainly has made some positive individual personell moves on his own. But where I think he needs help -- and needs to REALIZE he needs help -- is in building a team from the bottom up. Building a team in the team concept (see Eagles) is an art and a science, and is much more difficult than making a few individual positive personell moves. Many of us on this board, if given the authority and the financial resources, could make individual acquisitions that turn out to be good moves. But none of us has the acumen to craft a team with a unified personality and good team chemistry that plays well together. I think this is where a respected, professional GM comes into play. I don't have a problem with Snyder having input, but a real GM should chart the course of the team. If we bring Ruskell in this off-season, it may prove that Snyder agrees with me.

You can't judge a front office on individual acquisitions. You judge it on wins and losses. I would imagine that a Super Bowl champion team would defeat a Pro Bowl team, because the championship team is a well-oiled machine that plays well together. As Tre Johnson says, the Eagles don't impress me much individually, but they are fierce as a unit. You can argue that this comes down to coaching, but Snyder is as responsible as anyone for the coaching carousel we have endured around here.

Besides coaching, much of this team chemistry and unity that I'm talking about -- as Art has mentioned in other threads -- simply comes down to continuity; not changing the course. Art, you and I are in complete agreement here. Unfortunately, Snyder does not seem to agree with us on this point. If something's not working, he prefers to throw it all out and start over. Had he been the owner of the Eagles, he likely would have fired Andy Reid after his 5-11 rookie year of 1999. In retrospect, how dumb would that have been? Additionally, Snyder hired a defensive coordinator whom we all knew was likely here for a year and then gone. Not a good recipe for continuity. And I won't even get into the whole Marty debacle.

I think you and I are not that far apart in our opinions here. We both believe that continuity is a major component of a successful NFL team. And when Snyder demonstrates that he understands this concept, I may start to like him a whole lot more.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by SkinsThug

Now he only needs 999 positive moves like that to win me back over.:laugh:

what did he ever do to "lose you" in the first place?

[redskin56]

I agreed with Snyder's moves to fire Norv, although I thought the timing was a bit bad. I agreed that he should have fired Schottenheimer because he was never going to put a team on the field that woudl be exciting enough for Redskin Fans and Marty has never truely gotten to the promised land as a head coach (close but no cigar). I think that Spurrier's hiring was great for the organization.

The things I think he should have let play out are in the front office. He had to give Marty full control and I understand that but since he took over the team he has made changes to the FO every year. Whether it be with GM or scouts there has been no continuity. He fired Casserly and most of the FO staff instead of firing Norv. He has openly admitted that. He's learning, there is no question. I just hope that he can trust his decisions in the future instead of tinkering with them (ie letting the Mendes and Cerrato thing get out of control).

[SonnyJ]

I guess you're still waiting, Art. Pretty unspecific reasons given as to why people trash Snyder, IMO.

The one colossally stupid thing he did was the size of Deion's signing bonus. I had no problem with the actual acquisition, just it was a tremendous example of overpaying.

I was never that crazy about the Schottenheimer hiring. Things I heard about Schottenheimer just didn't thrill me. And I didn't see him as a GM type. Turns out he was a better GM here than coach.

Anyway, of course you would like to see more stability. Circumstances didn't lend itself to it, though. Hopefully, the organization is headed in that direction.

[bulldog]

anytime you have a franchise that goes through this much turnover in 3 years, there is room to question the decision-making.

when Marty was hired Snyder said he was the first coach HE had recruited and hired on his own and that he should be judged from that day forward.

well, Marty's stay here didn't last but one year and he was out the next January despite the four year contract he was given.

so, that marriage can't be considered anything other than a failed pairing based on the expectations.

there WAS room to question the decisionmaking of the owner for inconstancy after the 8-3 finish to the regular season. Most coaches would have returned. Gibbs returned after a similar 0-5 start and 8-3 finish

But Dan decided to go in another direction. And that is fine too.

Let's not pretend however that was all part of the master plan. The plan in 2001 was for Marty to rehab this team and get it back in the playoffs and that was why he was given $10 million over 4 years to make it happen.

I don't think Snyder deserves villification for the moves he has made.

He certainly has learned from the Deion debacle. You don't give a 33 year old player an $8 million bonus.

Other players however with large contracts they failed to live up to such as Stubblefield and Wilkinson and Sam Shade predated Snyder's arrival on the scene and can be laid at the feet of Casserly and Turner.

That's why I don't put Casserly on a pedestal. He made his share of mistakes in the 1990's in evaluating personnel that cost this team as much as Norv's underwhelming leadership as HC.

I have no doubt Snyder is intelligent enough to learn from his mistakes. Perhaps we are seeing more of that with the Jansen resigning and the stated intention of retaining Gardener as well.

Teams don't come together when players think management is not in line to reward them when they produce at a high level.

And to some degree the Deion signing and others such as the Trotter signing this past offseason, gave the impression at least to some observers that the Redskins were willing to be very bold and set the market when it came to signing OTHER team's free agents and franchise players but not when it came to retaining our own.

If that perception is borne out NOT to be a valid one based on the present and future actions of the front office, I will believe we are on the right track and indeed have turned a corner.

I have season tickets and have been INVESTING in watching the Redskins for years

While that investment of time and money does not make my opinion any more valid than anyone else's, it does I think give me the 'right' to state my opinion of where the team is at a particular period of time and how the owner and front office have conducted themselves

Since we are not privy to what is in other people's heads at a particular time we are ALWAYS speculating as to the reasons for actions taken.

But, just perhaps the move to resign Jansen and focus on our own free agenets FIRST in 2002 is not an indication that a lot of us have been mistaken about things, but rather that Snyder has re-evaluated where the team has gone in previous offseasons and decided it is HIS process that needs to change

[thito_da_skins_fan]

hey bulldog, another quote from today's WP to help your case a little...

"We're extremely pleased to be able to sign one of our core players who exemplifies the Redskin personality, both on and off the field," said Joe Mendes, the Redskins' vice president of football operations. "Jon Jansen is a Redskin 365 days a year. He never misses a workout and has yet to miss a game. It's important for this organization to identify and ultimately reward that type of a player."

i think they are getting it...

[Storm]

Oh please, this move was a no-brainer. Like picking Arrington second in the draft. Everyone would have done it.

Its the other moves that are extremely questionable. Just to list the first 10 that come to mind (in no particular order):

1. four head coaches in the last three years,

2. Hiring and firing Marty in one year,

3. Not hiring a GM,

4. Spending 100 million dollars in salaries and bonuses to pick up old probowlers,

5. Not drafting or signing a decent offensive guard last year,

6. signing Jeff George to "backup" Johnson,

7. Not resigning Johnson and therefore putting our QB position in flux for several years (Jeff George, Tony Banks, Mathews, Wuerfell, Ramsey in 32 games)

8. Firing a head coach with three games left and a playoff berth still a possibility.

9. Giving Deion Sanders an 8 million dollar signing bonus and then letting him walk away with it after one year.

10. Hiring a defensive coordinator that he knows will only be here for one year.

Next time I have and extra three minutes to spare Ill list the next ten, and then the next ten....

[Yomar]

Art, its not becoming to be smug towards other board members after the Redskins made a move 99% of the board is ahppy with.

I'll admit, I have not been a big Snyder fan, there has been a tremendous amount of instability in the organization since he has taken over, and he deserves to be criticized for that in my opinion. But I and I think most people who are less than enamoured with Snyder have continuously stated that we do not doubt his intentions, just his football acumen, and hope that as time goes on and he gains experience, things will change for the better.

Now on a personal level, I said that the Front Office deserves kudos fro re-signing Jansen to a fair deal and instilling at least a measure of stability on the Jansen thread, so I don't really think you are waiting, I think you are chiding. For you to try and polarize the board with an uncalled for "I told you so" on a move that for the most part is universally popular is not the right way to go. Fans are fickle, succeed and we love you, fail and we revile you, and what you did yesterday pales in importance to what you do today. Its the nature of the beast, to this point, Snyder I think has deserved some criticism, but if he turns the Skins into a winner, he will be loved and lauded throughout Redskindom.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Storm

Oh please, this move was a no-brainer. Like picking Arrington second in the draft. Everyone would have done it.

Its the other moves that are extremely questionable. Just to list the first 10 that come to mind (in no particular order):

1. four head coaches in the last three years,

2. Hiring and firing Marty in one year,

3. Not hiring a GM,

4. Spending 100 million dollars in salaries and bonuses to pick up old probowlers,

5. Not drafting or signing a decent offensive guard last year,

6. signing Jeff George to "backup" Johnson,

7. Not resigning Johnson and therefore putting our QB position in flux for several years (Jeff George, Tony Banks, Mathews, Wuerfell, Ramsey in 32 games)

8. Firing a head coach with three games left and a playoff berth still a possibility.

9. Giving Deion Sanders an 8 million dollar signing bonus and then letting him walk away with it after one year.

10. Hiring a defensive coordinator that he knows will only be here for one year.

Next time I have and extra three minutes to spare Ill list the next ten, and then the next ten....

1. Norv was inherited... would you rather him stayed? a replacement was needed and Robiskie was named the interim... neither was Snyder's guy... in retrospect, those 2 can't really be counted... Schottenheimer came and was fired... why? Snyder wanted Spurrier all along, and now, finally has him... you won't see another coaching change for a while...

2. see above comment

3. GM's are overrated... there are many teams in the NFL with GM's and those teams suck -- even worse than us... our drafts have not been as bad as people make them out to be... it is impossible to sit here and say we'd be a better team with a GM...

4. that was stupid for short-term effects... but i don't remember anyone complaining when it happened... it's easy to recognize failure after it happens... and if you remember correctly, we were better than the 8-8 team we put on the field... had we had a FG kicker, the Skins would have been in the playoffs that year, easily...

5. that was stupid, yes...

6. disagree... if Brad Johnson can't handle the pressure of a solid back-up, then we don't need him... the Bucs signed Rob Johnson this season and i didn't see Brad moan one bit... what team in their right mind wouldn't want a capable starter as a back-up? the move backfired, but don't blame Snyder for thinking the way he did...

7. Johnson was a free agent and didn't want to return... he left because he wanted to, not because we didn't re-sign him... George and Banks were Marty's guys... he was GM, remember? don't blame Snyder for that... i had (and still don't have) no problem with the Skins bringing in Matthews and Wuerffel... they knew the system and they have been like big brothers to Ramsey... would Ramsey be playing as well as he has without them here? think about it...

8. after that last loss, i didn't want to see Norv's face ever again... i don't think many people complain about Turner being fired...

9. that, too, was stupid, yes...

10. see #4... had it worked out, everyone would be calling Snyder a genius... give me a break -- everyone was jumping for joy the day ML came to DC... nobody thought it would take as long as it has for the defense to learn his system... we ALL knew the possibility of him only staying a year, but that didn't seem to bother anyone... what if our defense was ranked #1? would it matter then? of course not...

anything else?

[MRMADD]

I gotta agree with Storm. With as many mis-steps as this franchise has taken since Snyder bought it, one no-brainer signing is not going to make up for it.

They're due for some bashing. Resigning our core young players shouldn't be a cause for celebration (or gloating on Art's part), it should be expected!

When they resign Gardener, we should all say, "About time!" It's not like there's anyone on this board who, if suddenly made GM, wouldn't resign him. It's just a matter of time. Will that be more proof that the front office knows what they're doing? No.

Mendes has done a good job of getting a handle on our cap. It was a complete mess after Snyder's fantasy-land signings, and now it's manageable. Half a pat on the back for that.

They also have added some players who will make big contributions, like Gardener and Ramsey. Another half a pat.

They just have a long way to go before anyone will be willing to say, "Gosh, Art, I sure was wrong about our front office. They do know what they're doing!"

That's because in the back of our minds we're all afraid they'll run out and blow all our cap room on a big name free agent and doom us to another year of watching the Skins suck. Maybe it's irrational, but they've got to resign our good players, make some smart moves in free agency, and do great things in the draft before we can let it go. That's their job, isn't it?

[OaktonSkins/BushFan]

Originally posted by Art

A number of folks here are of the mind that Dan Snyder is the root of all evil and anything he touches turns to sh!t. And yet, none have come out and spoken of the horrible move he made to retain Jansen. Or his horrible move to engineer Gardener's arrival and his retention. We know these are bad ideas because Snyder is the driving force. So come on guys. You're so loud and proud in October when Jansen doesn't accept the first formal contract offer he's given. Why aren't you as loud and proud today when Snyder makes yet another mistake, as is all Snyder can do in your worlds?

Ok, I'll bite. Yes, Danny deserves credit, it would seem, for the Jansen contract and perhaps for the acquisition of and ongoing negotiations to keep Gardener.

But, let's also recall that his victories are few and far between and, in fact, pale in comparison with Snyder's less than stellar record with the Redskins since taking ownership. Has Snyder done a few good things? Yes. Has he made many more mistakes? Yes and the record bears that out.

With that said, obviously Snyder has his heart in the right place and is clearly doing everything he can to win. Fortunately, I'm beginning to see now some encouraging signs which suggest to me that Snyder has re-evaluated his historical approach to the team.

[Storm]

1. Norv was inherited... would you rather him stayed? a replacement was needed and Robiskie was named the interim... neither was Snyder's guy... in retrospect, those 2 can't really be counted... Schottenheimer came and was fired... why? Snyder wanted Spurrier all along, and now, finally has him... you won't see another coaching change for a while...

Of course theyre counted. They point to the fact that the team is in constant flux. there is no continuity.

2. Same reason as above.

3. GM's are overrated... there are many teams in the NFL with GM's and those teams suck -- even worse than us... our drafts have not been as bad as people make them out to be... it is impossible to sit here and say we'd be a better team with a GM...

Overrated? an acual football person who can evaluate talent and make decisions that are good for the team long term. Rather than an amateur marketing executive who is playing fantasy football? This is the primary problem of the team. We do things on a whim and based on Snyders wants as a fan not as a football executive.

6. disagree... if Brad Johnson can't handle the pressure of a solid back-up, then we don't need him... the Bucs signed Rob Johnson this season and i didn't see Brad moan one bit... what team in their right mind wouldn't want a capable starter as a back-up? the move backfired, but don't blame Snyder for thinking the way he did...

The issue isnt brad Johnsons ability to take pressure. Its the fact that the FO undermined him by hiring a mercinary arm. that they found in their fantasy football catalog. Thus indicating to him they really didnt feel he should or would be their starter.

Brad Johnson has proven this year that competition behind him really doesnt faze him at all.

Johnson was a free agent and didn't want to return... he left because he wanted to, not because we didn't re-sign him... George and Banks were Marty's guys... he was GM, remember?

False. Noone really tried to resign him or extend his contract, and the writing was on the wall when George was brought in. Wrong about George, he was brought in by Snyder. And the fact that we had to start banks was a direct result of not risigning Johnson

8. after that last loss, i didn't want to see Norv's face ever again... i don't think many people complain about Turner being fired...

Noone feels turner should have come back the next year. However firing someone with three games left while youre in the playoff hunt still is rediculous. You first kill the season and then send the message to the rest of the league (and potential coaches and players) Im volatile and will do things on the spur of the moment if needed. regardless of its impact on the team or coaches

10. had it worked out, everyone would be calling Snyder a genius... give me a break -- everyone was jumping for joy the day ML came to DC... nobody thought it would take as long as it has for the defense to learn his system... we ALL knew the possibility of him only staying a year, but that didn't seem to bother anyone... what if our defense was ranked #1? would it matter then? of course not...

Back to the whole notion of continuity and the fantasy football theme. a real GM would have realized just hiring the biggest name on defense is not rational, rather we need continuity and wouldnt have let that happen. Of course we loved it. We're fans. THe front office isnt supposed to act like fans they are supposed to look out for the long term benefit of the team.