MikeP. Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I found this at another Redskins MB. Thought I would share this with you guys and see what ya'll think. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/12/15/wwwben1b15.html By Mark Curnutte The Cincinnati Enquirer At 1-12, the Bengals have the inside track on the first overall pick in April's draft. They have a two-game lead with three games remaining over three teams with 3-10 records: Chicago, Detroit and Minnesota. But - bad luck being the Bengals' way for more than a decade - this is not a good year to have the first overall pick, according to a consensus of draft experts. There is no clear No. 1, and the Bengals probably will be forced to overpay whomever they select. Trading down for additional picks is a possibility, but teams might not want the top pick for the same reason the Bengals wouldn't. "The only rumor I've heard is (Redskins owner) Daniel (Snyder) is crazed over getting Carson Palmer," said Jerry Jones, publisher of The Drugstore List draft guide. Palmer, the quarterback from Southern California who won the Heisman Trophy, has climbed many draft boards after an impressive senior season in which he threw for 3,639 yards and 32 touchdowns. ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. projects Palmer as the No. 1 overall, three places ahead of Marshall quarterback Byron Leftwich. Sports Illustrated's Peter King says the Bengals should take Leftwich at No. 1. Palmer reportedly is also a favorite of Washington coach Steve Spurrier, even though the Redskins spent their 2002 first-round pick on quarterback Patrick Ramsey of Tulane. The Redskins played a major role in what has developed as the Bengals' most successful draft of the Mike Brown era, 1998. The Redskins traded their first- and third-round picks to the Bengals in exchange for defensive tackle Dan Wilkinson. That additional first-round pick, No. 17 overall, was used to take linebacker Brian Simmons from North Carolina. The Bengals drafted linebacker Takeo Spikes No. 13 that year from Auburn. "This year, they need numbers of players more than they need any one player," says Jones, a former Bengals draft-room insider. "They should try to get 12 or 13 players. They need the bodies and to create competition for roster spots. They should keep trading down." A Bengals choice of Palmer or any other quarterback would require some other decisions to be made first. Do the Bengals plan to bring back offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski and his system? If so, says Bengals radio analyst Dave Lapham, the team should stick with Jon Kitna and draft a quarterback in a lower round - such as California's Kyle Boller, whom the Bengals have scouted heavily. "If they don't (retain Bratkowski), maybe they think about drafting Palmer at No. 1, because everything is back to square one," Lapham says. "Jon's big advantage goes away a little bit with the system. He still has more experience, more football IQ, and he'd be a great guy to groom a quarterback no matter what system you have in place." It took a season and a half, but Bratkowski's system appears to be clicking. The Bengals have scored 20 or more points in seven consecutive games for the first time since 1985. Kitna has thrown 14 touchdown passes and four interceptions and is averaging 269.6 yards passing in those seven games. His passer rating is 102.0. A quarterback trio of Kitna, Joe Germaine and Palmer or Boller is a possibility. Don't expect Gus Frerotte or Akili Smith to return for the 2003 season. Smith is a possible June 1 release. Brown and other Bengals front-office personnel, as part of an interview blackout imposed early last week, declined to comment about the team's draft plans or needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 just because you like a guy doesn't mean you're stupid. I think if we end up with a top 10 overall pick.....you'll see a WR or DT drafted in the 1st round unless we make a move in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 If we draft a qb high(We'll probably need one drafted hopefully 6th or 7th round to be the 3rd string guy), I'm gonna freak out. We are far too weak at defensive end and wide receiver to draft one with our 1st pick. Hell, I'd even take a guard over a qb in round 1 and I am very against taking guards or centers in that round. Ramsey is gonna be a really good qb in this league I just hope it's with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford just because you like a guy doesn't mean you're stupid. I think if we end up with a top 10 overall pick.....you'll see a WR or DT drafted in the 1st round unless we make a move in FA. Uhhhh.....are we talking about the same front office here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 A lot is riding on these next two games. What if Ramsey looks horrible vs. the Texans and Cowboys? Do we ignore that and plan our 2003 season around him nonetheless? Do we pin our hopes on Wuerffel (who, in addition to lacking the arm, is apparently among the more fragile QBs)? Believe me, I'm not advocating that we take another first round QB. But if Leftwich or Palmer dropped to our slot and we don't have a handle on QB, can we afford NOT to consider it? Personally, I'd much rather take another QB on Day Two of the draft and develop that guy behind Ramsey, but as we know, our fortunes at QB have been terrible and we may not have the luxury of doing that. I really, really hope Ramsey comes through. Don't we deserve a break at QB after all these years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampSkin Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I thought this was going to be a Jessie Palmer thread. No way in hell we take Carson Palmer with our pick. Never happen. If it, by some quirk in the natural order proper logic, does come fruition, I might just double over and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 look, if a top QB falls to our spot. That puts us in a great position to trade down, get extra picks and still get a DL or OL or WR in the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Does Palmer have a good set of wheels? Spurrier has made several comments about how important mobility is at QB in the NFL. That is the only reason it would make sense for them to draft Palmer. If he is as statuesque as Ramsey, then I would just hate drafting Palmer. I refuse to believe that Spurrier would jettison Ramsey just because he wasn't his specific pick. It's crazy to question Spurrier's judgment on QBs at this point, at least as a layman. Yeah, he thought Wuerffel was a viable NFL starter for him (and, you gotta admit DW didn't look awful those games he played), but I suspect he's much wiser about what physical tools are required from a QB at the NFL level after a season of play. But, I can't believe that he doesn't think Ramsey has potential. That TD pass to Doering on Sunday was just sick. And bringing in a rookie is just delaying the team's progress for at least another year. Unless he's looking for a guy with scrambling ability, blowing another first-rounder on a QB is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampSkin Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 First thing, I don't think Ramsey is statuesque at all. He's no Vick, obviously, but he's got above average escapeability and has shown pretty decent wheels. Second, Carson Palmer, IMO, wouldn't be a step up in the mobility department over Ramsey. Lastly, no way in hell we take him, anyway. As Bufford mention, he may fall to our spot and another team attempts to trade up for him, but that, IMO, will be the only dealings he has with the skins in the 2003 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 look, if a top QB falls to our spot. That puts us in a great position to trade down, get extra picks and still get a DL or OL or WR in the 1st round. i hope the FO is thinking this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Snyder hasn't said "boo" all offseason, except to mention how impressed he is with Carson Palmer? Are these the only thoughts he's had all season? We need to get used to it. Any time a big name free agent or top draft pick is mentioned, Snyder will be "interested." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 We don't take a QB at all unless we are planning on trading Ramsey and if we were planning on trading Ramsey we would have showcased him earlier rather than protecting him. We'd have gotten him out there to flash his skills. That said, I could see Spurrier falling in love with a QB to the point that he's willing to get one and then get another first-round pick for Ramsey. Of course, the main reason prior to the draft I thought getting Gurode was a good idea is because THIS draft is so rich in QBs we simply could have delayed that key spot for a year. Now that Ramsey is here and looking good it's hard to envision a change in direction, but, I suppose it's possible. But, this is coming from a Bengals insider which means he's used to doing dumb stuff, and while a Palmer and Joseph draft would be good, I suppose, it seems to me we'd be another year set behind in getting a QB ready to play. Right now you can hope for some stuff with Ramsey next year and in year three hope for greater heights. Do you want to wait for another guy to learn his system? Doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 ok, my bad. I thought the Saints were a top D. However, I think Ramsey still faced the harder teams this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Honestly, if we draft Carson Palmer, it would really serve us right if Ramsey takes another team to the Super Bowl while Palmer becomes the next Rick Mirer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Statuesque was a poor choice of words. I don't think Ramsey is a statue, but he's not a scrambler, either. He can move in the pocket, but he's not going to cause defenses to put a spy on him. I just meant it as a frame of reference. Unless Palmer poses a serious threat of making things happen with his legs, I don't see what the point in getting him is. You have a promising young QB already whose only apparent non-strength is a mad set of gams. Why get another one like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 BTW, I agree with others here who say you have to take this with a serious grain of salt. We haven't heard word one out of Snyder all season, but some guy pushing ink for a draft rag knows what he wants? I've no doubt that Spurrier likes talented QBs, but does that necessarily mean he wants to get a new one? I like new cars myself, but it doesn't mean I want to get a new one every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 If Spurrier wants to go for a novelty pick in the 4th round or beyond, Seneca Wallace is his man. For those of you who don't know - he is the QB of Iowa State. He is basically a poor man's Michael Vick. Maybe a little more like Antwaan Randel El with a better arm. He's tiny, only about 5'10 195. But he's got a nice arm, incredible scrambling ability, and most of all - he's a winner. He seems to have that ability to elevate the people around him ala Vick. I would have no problem grabbing him in the 4th. Unfortunetly, I see him being plucked by the end of the 2nd like Antwann Randel El. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 The Redskins are just posturing for possible trade partners. Ramsey is every bit as talented as Palmer, maybe more so. Yes, Ramsey didn't play for a big school or beat Notre Dame on national T.V., but his arm and intelligence are equal to if not superior to Palmer's. If we're drafting in the top five, which I hope not, we'll be looking to trade down and gather additional picks. I think the F.O. is well aware of the fact that we aren't a player away from contending for the Super Bowl. We've got to get younger, faster, and more aggressive. Palmer doesn't give us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampSkin Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by SonnyJ Statuesque was a poor choice of words. I don't think Ramsey is a statue, but he's not a scrambler, either. He can move in the pocket, but he's not going to cause defenses to put a spy on him. I just meant it as a frame of reference. Unless Palmer poses a serious threat of making things happen with his legs, I don't see what the point in getting him is. You have a promising young QB already whose only apparent non-strength is a mad set of gams. Why get another one like that? Gotcha. I agree with that 100%. I honestly think SOS digs Ramsey. How can he not? His numbers last game against a formidable defense were un-freaking-believable for any qb, let alone a rookie qb with limited playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 There are things you can get better at if you work on it. Scrambling is one of them. He will never be a runner liker Mcnabb or Brunell...but he can get faster if he works on it this offseason. Footwork is very important. You take off, protect the ball and keep your feet up and moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by Art We don't take a QB at all unless we are planning on trading Ramsey and if we were planning on trading Ramsey we would have showcased him earlier rather than protecting him. We'd have gotten him out there to flash his skills. You're giving credit to Spurrier for a level of design I haven't seen evidenced all year long. The truth is that while Spurrier has been generally supportive of Ramsey all year long, we don't know where he stands on Ramsey long term, and we're painfully aware both that Ramsey was forced on Spurrier by the front office, and that Spurrier now wants a bigger say in personnel matters. If Ramsey hasn't impressed Spurrier with his long-term potential (and Spurrier has never said that he has) then that could be a recipe for a draft day trade of Ramsey if and when we pick up a guy like Palmer. If it's me and I'm king for a day, I'd stick with Ramsey and trade down for more picks. We have a lot of holes to fill, and QB's will be at a premium. There should be plenty of teams angling for one of the QB's who are willing to part with picks, and many of those teams have poor records and correspondingly high picks in each round to give us. I'd like to see us pick up a premium quality DE or DT in the high first round, and if we get lower first round picks, then also pick up a good RB or WR, OG or S prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 There should be plenty of teams angling for one of the QB's who are willing to part with picks, and many of those teams have poor records and correspondingly high picks in each round to give us. this would be ideal. trade down a couple spots and still pick up that monster DT/DE plus a 2nd or 3rd rounder. use the three 2nd/3rd picks to get OG/OG/S in whatever order and then draft for talent. beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by dchogs this would be ideal. trade down a couple spots and still pick up that monster DT/DE plus a 2nd or 3rd rounder. use the three 2nd/3rd picks to get OG/OG/S in whatever order and then draft for talent. beautiful. That would certainly be logical, but our front office has been known to defy logic. I hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 LB, that's why extremeskins should be hired to run the draft. i bet we'd do it on the cheap...:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Originally posted by dchogs LB, that's why extremeskins should be hired to run the draft. i bet we'd do it on the cheap...:cool: Well Dan Snyder is just a billionaire version of one of us...except we probably know a bit more about football than he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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