Smoot Point Really Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 What - you're ready to pass complete judgement after 2?Brilliant. No, but to ignore the past two seasons as if they didn't occur (or to consider them a positive) is what we shouldn't be doing. I mean, outside of tackling, he wasn't that great the first season either. That season can be chalked up to being a rookie... Last season, he took a significant step back, and it wasn't just the defensive line. Gregg Williams doesn't tell a player to give a 9-10 yard cushion either (unless they are totally uncomfortable with that player in coverage)... I'm pretty sure coaches stop doing that after High School, but maybe some colleges still do it. If the scheme calls for bump-and-run, then a player must stay at the line... However, the difference between a 5 yard and a 9-10 yard cushion is what we're talking about here. Players lineup and give a cushion depending on the situation and how the offense comes to the line of scrimmage and motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 What I imply is that too much advice can be a bad thing... We have former players that we currently pay to be coaches. You have to work within the framework of the system, and the whole notion that you bring in people who are completely outside the current organization to instruct a guy how to play is ludicrous. Are there things that Deion and Darrell can impart to Carlos? Yes... Will it help? Likely not. We need the current Redskins to play better within the current structure as set up by the coaches.What is stupid about asking: We have coaches (and good ones), why bring in outside consultants who haven't played under a Gregg Williams system ever in their long (and glorious) careers? If Darrell Green and Deion Sanders were great at teaching young cornerbacks how to play the game of football, don't you think they would BE coaches? I haven't heard anywhere that they were ever interested in taking up the Carlos Rogers project... It would also be nothing more to them than a "pet-project", since neither of them would have the "investment" and "accountability" to the team that a real coach/player has. The only "stupid" thing is to automatically assume that this will workout and be great for Carlos Rogers. Those people who relish this idea while criticizing Dan Snyder for bringing in too many coaches/consultants would be showing a bit of hypocrisy... don't you think? If this is only some Jerry Rice offseason training programs to build up stamina and keep in shape, I'd have no problem with it. Do you really think Green or Sanders is going to teach CBs 65 hrs a week for 100K/yr? Off your rocker. They are HOF locks, and could school any CB coach in the league. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Do you really think Green or Sanders is going to teach CBs 65 hrs a week for 100K/yr? Off your rocker. They are HOF locks, and could school any CB coach in the league. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Jerry Gray was a 4-time Pro Bowler... NEXT?!?!? Note: I'm not saying that Green and Sanders aren't better as players than Gray, but your logic is totally flawed. Those who love to teach, will teach no matter what the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Jerry Gray was a 4-time Pro Bowler... NEXT?!?!?Note: I'm not saying that Green and Sanders aren't better as players than Gray, but your logic is totally flawed. Those who love to teach, will teach no matter what the cost. Sure. Danny is going to get into a bidding war with the networks for Sanders time. And of course they would be willing to put in the hours. LOL. Wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Sure. Danny is going to get into a bidding war with the networks for Sanders time. And of course they would be willing to put in the hours. LOL. Wake up. Again... Why then should Carlos Rogers look to someone who has no interest in making him a better player? Your arguments are groundless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Again... Why then should Carlos Rogers look to someone who has no interest in making him a better player? Your arguments are groundless. Darrell was a lifelong Skin. Deon owes Danny about a million favors or so. I don't know if they did anything at all, but I can picture one or both spending a little time with our guys. So you don't think Carlos looks up to two of the best that ever played? I think you just like to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Again... Why then should Carlos Rogers look to someone who has no interest in making him a better player? Your arguments are groundless. Deion veiws himself as an emissary of wisdom to all the players in the league. he gets around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Ever wonder if people here have their "favorite" players and will defend them to the end? The same people that are saying "Carlos sucks" and there can be no help for him because he is terrible are the same ones that will be yelling "SMOOT" all season long wether he is playing or not. I'd be shocked if I was wrong about that. The same people saying that Carlos was just "terrible" last year and using the excuse that he was stranded on an island because our defense as a whole sucked, are the same ones who will say the ONLY reason Smoot was released from Minn. and sucked the last two seasons was because he "wasn't in the right defensive scheme". :doh: Unbelievable...Carlos did not look good at times last year but no one here can honestly say we have any better option on our team right now, with the exception of a "injury-free" Springs. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 rogers had a decent to solid 05 season. according to KC joyners metrics he was great against the deep ball and great against the short routes. he struggled big time in the medium pass routes, and that was something to be left desired regarding his game. not to mention hes a great run stopping CB, im sure we can all agree that at the least, hes very good against the run. in 06, he played with no other corners, 1 competant saftey, and the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL. ill say that again for those of you who cant grasp this. THE WORST PASS RUSH IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. please somebody direct me towards a corner who had a good season with a horrendous pass rush, chances are you wont find one because they go hand in hand. the best corners usually have a great pass rush in front of them, this isnt a shocker. same reason why great running backs 99% of the time have great lines in front of them, because they work together. give LT the raiders offensive line, he wont be setting records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Last season, he took a significant step back, and it wasn't just the defensive line. Whew - I feel much better about the line already. I mean, if you say it wasn't the D line then I believe you. Gregg Williams doesn't tell a player to give a 9-10 yard cushion either (unless they are totally uncomfortable with that player in coverage)... Obviously you ang Gregg are pretty tight - huh.?. That's cool how you know exactly what he's thinking. I'm pretty sure coaches stop doing that after High School, but maybe some colleges still do it. If the scheme calls for bump-and-run, then a player must stay at the line... However, the difference between a 5 yard and a 9-10 yard cushion is what we're talking about here. I'm sorry - you're pretty much my hero based on their previous two comments, but this is hilarious coming from somebody with "Smoot" in his name. Giving a massive cushion and giving away everything underneath was the biggest reason I harped on Smoot. Difference between Smoot and Rogers? Rogers has played two seasons, and last years D was a sieve. I'm not looking forward to this place if JC doesn't somehow make the ProBowl this season. This place (and cats like you) will be in total meltdown mode. Give it some freaking time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 rogers had a decent to solid 05 season. according to KC joyners metrics he was great against the deep ball and great against the short routes. he struggled big time in the medium pass routes, and that was something to be left desired regarding his game. not to mention hes a great run stopping CB, im sure we can all agree that at the least, hes very good against the run.in 06, he played with no other corners, 1 competant saftey, and the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL. ill say that again for those of you who cant grasp this. THE WORST PASS RUSH IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. please somebody direct me towards a corner who had a good season with a horrendous pass rush, chances are you wont find one because they go hand in hand. the best corners usually have a great pass rush in front of them, this isnt a shocker. same reason why great running backs 99% of the time have great lines in front of them, because they work together. give LT the raiders offensive line, he wont be setting records. :applause: [/discussion] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 geeez....did this thread ever go on a bender! 1) Most of us just want to know if CR followed up on a personal commitment to excellence. 2) Most of us will wait to see what happens in pre-season and the first half the season before coming to any conclusions...that's why its important to know the answer to point 1...it shapes expectations and the "seriousness" quotient of what CR says. what CR did or did not do last season is water under the proverbial football bridge. his whole statement was calculated to promote the notion of change and improvement to elite levels. well that's what we should be expecting to judge...is he going to make that leap or not?...until then.......it's all all idle chatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 ok smoot point, lets discuss this "rogers lines up 800 miles off the receiver" nonsense. you seem to think rogers just lines up where he wants, and because hes so bad and unconfident about his abilities, he needs an extra 10 yard cushion to make up for his inabilities. i think that williams was aware we had no pass rush, so he said to his corners "dont press up because were not getting to the quarterback". the 19 sacks we generated for the entire season should be enough evidence to support this claim. but if youre still not satisfied with that lets look at more of what williams does. he employs a lot of masking coverage. so williams might have guys start up on the line, then start dropping back once the QB calls his play, or he might have them start 10 yards off then rush up into press. and if you watch games, springs did a ton of this as well, so i guess he sucks just as bad as rogers does. and you said "williams wouldnt tell a player to give a 10 yard cushion". why not?? if williams sees the eagles in some formation where hes pretty sure stallworth is gonna go streaking up the field, why would he have his guys in press??? williams (or marshall) anticpates the offensive call, and if he thinks a guy is going deep, he tells rogers, "back up, dude is going deep" and now rogers has more room to read the QB, and get his speed up to the receivers speed. the only downside to rogers doing this sometimes was that teams would audible if they saw rogers back up, and theyd throw quick strikes to an open guy for a 5 yard gain. im sure this is an issue williams will look at and correct, but to think rogers was lining up deep at times because hes so bad is just beyond silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Jerry Gray was a 4-time Pro Bowler... NEXT?!?!?Note: I'm not saying that Green and Sanders aren't better as players than Gray, but your logic is totally flawed. Those who love to teach, will teach no matter what the cost. "loving" to teach and being good at teaching are 2 different things. If you dont think sitting a young player with talent next to 2 hall of famers and letting osmosis take place will not have any benefit to the young player....Im sorry man, I guess it truly is /discussion. I cant comprehend your logic, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 geeez....did this thread ever go on a bender!1) Most of us just want to know if CR followed up on a personal commitment to excellence. 2) Most of us will wait to see what happens in pre-season and the first half the season before coming to any conclusions...that's why its important to know the answer to point 1...it shapes expectations and the "seriousness" quotient of what CR says. what CR did or did not do last season is water under the proverbial football bridge. his whole statement was calculated to promote the notion of change and improvement to elite levels. well that's what we should be expecting to judge...is he going to make that leap or not?...until then.......it's all all idle chatter Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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