Skins Draft Position

[MRMADD]

As it stands today, the Skins pick 9th. If they lose their final two games, they pick between 3rd and 7th. If they win one of the two, they pick between 6th and 11th. If they win both of their final two, they pick between 10th and 14th.

1. 1-13 Bengals

2. 3-11 Lions

3. 4-10 Texans

4. 4-10 Vikings

5. 4-10 Bears

6. 5-9 Seahawks

7. 5-9 Cardinals

8. 5-9 Panthers

9. 5-9 REDSKINS

10. 5-9 Cowboys

11. 6-8 Rams

12. 6-8 Jags

By the way, I didn't attempt to determine the order of teams with the same record (all the 4-10's for example) because it'll change. I did figure out the Skins relative position within the 5-9s, though.

[GrimReaper21]

Thanks Mr. Madd. At least we might have a top ten draft pick this year.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

I don't care if we draft 3rd our 12th. I have no confidence that our FO will use the pick to help our "O" line. What good is a top ten WR if our QB is on his a$$ or running for his life? If we had a solid line to make holes for Betts and Watson and give Ramsey time to throw our WR's are good enough for next year. We must build the line. That must be priority one. Has anyone spent the time to look at the top "O" line prospects?

[MRMADD]

Here are the top prospects...

NAME Position

1. Byron Leftwich Quarterback

2. *Charlie Rogers Wide Receiver

3. *Roy Williams Wide Receiver

4. William Joseph Defensive Tackle

5. Dave Ragone Quarterback

6. Jimmy Kennedy Defensive Tackle

7. *Kelly Washington Wide Receiver

8. *DeWayne White Defensive End

9. EJ Henderson Linebacker

10.Mike Doss Safety

11.Jerome McDougle Defensive End

12.Carson Palmer Quarterback

13.Dennis Weathersby Cornerback

14.*Brandon Lloyd Wide Receiver

15.*Terrell Suggs Linebacker

16.*Vince Wilfork Defensive Tackle

17.Brett Williams Offensive Tackle

18.*Eli Manning Quarterback

19.*Kwame Harris Offensive Tackle

20.*Jimmy Wilkerson Defensive End

21.*Derrick Strait Cornerback

22.*Onterrio Smith Running Back

23.Troy Polamalu Safety

24.*Andre Johnson Wide Receiver

25.Terence Newman Cornerback

26.Larry Johnson Running Back

27.*Willis MacGahee Running Back

28.Steve Scuillo Offensive Tackle

29.Cory Redding Defensive End

30.Kindal Moorehead Defensive Tackle

31.*Darnell Dockett Defensive Tackle

32.Vince Manuwai Offensive Guard

33.Jordan Gross Offensive Tackle

34.Mario Haggan Linebacker

35.Clifton Smith Linebacker

36.*Teyo Johnson Tight End

37.Al Johnson Center

38.Jarrett Johnson Defensive Tackle

39.Andre Woolfolk Cornerback

40.Doug Gabriel Wide Receiver

41.Lee Suggs Running Back

42.*Chris Brown Running Back

43.Justin Gage Wide Receiver

44.Boss Bailey Linebacker

45.Eugene Wilson Cornerback

46.Ty Warren Defensive Tackle

47.Derrick Dockery Offensive Guard

48.Terrance Holt Safety

49.Michael Haynes Defensive End

50.Ken Dorsey Quarterback

51.Montrae Holland Offensive Guard

52.Andrew Pinnock Fullback

53.Gerald Hayes Linebacker

54.Jon Stinchcomb Offensive Tackle

55.Ben Johnson Offensive Tackle

56.Anthony Floyd Safety

57.Cecil Sapp Running Back

58.Antwan Peek Defensive End

59.Chris Sims Quarterback

60.Kyle Boller Quarterback

[MRMADD]

If we end up with a top 10 pick, I'd be happy with DTs William Joseph or Jimmy Kennedy, or WR Charlie Rogers.

If we can't get one of those three, we should be trading down. I'd be thrilled if we could end the first two rounds with the following:

#23 (or so) S Troy Palamalu

#32 (or so) OG Vince Manuwai

#47 (or so) OG Derrick Dockery

Yes, we'd still have holes at DT, DE, WR, RB, and TE to fill, but we'd have addressed our most glaring holes.

Unfortunately, our front office doesn't think like this. They're more likely to trade our first and second rounder for the second pick in the draft so they can take Rogers.

[MRMADD]

<<I don't care if we draft 3rd our 12th. I have no confidence that our FO will use the pick to help our "O" line. What good is a top ten WR if our QB is on his a$$ or running for his life? If we had a solid line to make holes for Betts and Watson and give Ramsey time to throw our WR's are good enough for next year. We must build the line. That must be priority one. Has anyone spent the time to look at the top "O" line prospects?>> Tommy the Greek

Exactly! If we draft Rogers, he's gonna look like a bust because Ramsey won't have time to get him the ball.

I really hope we draft two OGs in the first two rounds. It's not exciting, but it will go a long way towards fixing this team.

[Zen-like Todd]

Well, Palmer and Leftwich should be off the board before our pick is up, pushing the WRs and DTs down a bit towards us.

[MRMADD]

It's pretty scary that if we lose our last two games, we finish with the 3rd pick in the draft. Are we really worse than the Texans?

That said, I'll take the #3 pick any day of the week. The Bungles will definitely take Leftwich and ruin him forever. I don't think that two QBs will be off the board, though: the Lions have a good one in Harrington. They might just be dumb enough to take Rogers when they really need defensive help.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Thank you Madd, Do you have any links for these players? I want to read up on them. I have to do something to take my mind off of things. I went back to work today after a 2 week vacation. The Eagle and Giant fans littered my desk and pc and my walls with all kinds of hand written pics and notes and real pics with handwritten captions all downing the Skins. I can only hope the Eagles and Giants go down in flames this year. The only solace I can have is our draft position and like I said in my first post I have no confidence our FO is going to help out our line.:shootinth

I have yet to see any quotes from anyone in our organization stating the obvious. We need to start on the "O" line and it must be priority one. I need to see someone step forward and say our interior line $ucks and we must do something about it. If Spurrier goes after a WR or allows Snyder and his lackies to draft a Wr in the first round we are doomed. Spurrier must start talking to the media about the need to address the line. Football is won and lost in the trenches and if he doesn't see that the good old boy is in over his head.

[MRMADD]

Here's some stuff, Tommy:

Kevin Breedlove-Georgia

(6-2, 300, estimated 5.26 40 time)

Positives: A rough and tough overachiever. Plays hard and will give his team everything he has. Very experienced, a four-year starter in college.

Negatives: Does not have great athletic ability. Is a straight-ahead blocker who lacks agility and has problems when adjusting to block on the move.

Overall analysis: Breedlove is a solid offensive guard prospect who ranks high in the intangible categories. Breedlove is a true blue collar player, he knows the tricks of the trade and will go all-out on every play. His resume includes many all-SEC mentions, which shows he gets the job done more times than not. However, he’s not a great athlete and has limited upside. Considering his limitations, it’s likely that he will only be able to play the right guard position at the next level. Overall, Breedlove’s effectiveness on the football field will likely be enough to get him drafted in the later rounds of the 2003 NFL draft.

Derrick Dockery-Texas

(6-6, 345, estimated 5.31 40 time)

Positives: An absolute mammoth of a man. Has a big, thick lower body and excellent football build. Can simply destroy the opposition if he gets his hands on them. Possesses good quickness for his size.

Negatives: Is not as good a player as he should be. Should be a much better run blocker than he is.

Overall analysis: Dockery is an incredibly talented player who looks like a first rounder one week and a day two selection the next. Dockery moved in the starting lineup as a sophomore and has been a mainstay on Texas’ offensive line ever since. As a sophomore and junior Dockery saw extensive time at both offensive guard positions. But as a senior, Dockery has moved outside and has played the majority of the time at the right tackle position. As a pro, Dockery has enough size and athletic ability to play either guard spot, and could easily fill in at right tackle in a pinch. Dockery has an excellent offensive lineman’s frame, he’s a big man who has a great lower body that allows him to anchor and play with power. He is also pretty quick, and has shown above average lateral movement for an interior offensive lineman. However, despite all of his skills Dockery is not the consistent force that he should be week in and week out. It will be interesting to see how this player performs as a senior, but if he can dominate from an outside position throughout his senior year his name will likely fly up most team’s draft board. Right now Dockery looks like a solid second round selection.

Sherko Haji-Rasouli/Miami, Fl

(6-6, 318, estimated 5.33 40 time)

Positives: Has good size and good quickness for his size. Can pull and block on the move. Shows good awareness and does a nice job of picking up blitzes. Very good player who has a lot of room to improve and get better.

Negatives: Sometimes has trouble anchoring and will get pushed around. Has had some serious knee injuries and has had a very difficult time staying healthy.

Overall analysis: Haji-Rasouli was really coming into his own and emerging as a top player in 2001 when his season ended early with a serious knee injury (ACL). In fact, if it wasn’t for his medical past, Haji-Rasouli could be as good a player as any senior offensive guard in the country. Haji-Rasouli has a great combination of size, strength and athleticism. He is ideal as a left guard as he can block on the move and does a very good job in pass protection. However, his medical background is a cause of concern. He suffered an ACL injury in 1998, and his 2001 season ended early due to an ACL injury. He also didn’t finish the 2000 season, missing the last half of that season after undergoing a knee operation. If he stays healthy, Haji-Rasouli could turn out to be a heck of a player. But let the buyer beware because there is a great amount of risk considering his past injuries.

Montrae Holland-Florida State

(6-3, 336, estimated 5.29 40 time)

Positives: Has a great offensive guard build, compact with a big and powerful lower body. Very strong and can maul the opposition in the running game. Is on the short side, doesn’t look as tall as his 6-3 listing.

Negatives: Is somewhat inconsistent on the football field. Should dominate more than he does. Has quickness but doesn’t always react well when blocking on the move. Has had a lot of surgeries in the past.

Overall analysis: Holland is a massive widebody who has been a good player but really should be a better player. Holland has a tremendous build for an offensive lineman, he’s big all over and has a powerful and imposing lower body. He can be a ferocious run blocker, and will generally eliminate the competition if he gets his hands on them. Holland is also a solid pass-protector, but even though he has good quickness he does have some trouble when having to slide to pick up the blitz. Holland’s medical history could be a concern as well, as he’s had surgery on both knees and an ankle within the last few years. But overall Holland looks like he could become a very good NFL guard. Currently Holland carries a third round grade.

Vince Manuwai-Hawaii

(6-2, 309, estimated 5.16 40 time)

Positives: Very smart player who seems to have a natural feel for playing the game. Possesses good quickness. Keeps his pads lows and, as a result, is a pretty powerful player.

Negatives: Plays in a pass-oriented offense and does not get a whole lot of opportunities to be a straight-ahead run blocker. May be a bit on the short side. Doesn’t have a super-huge body, and may have trouble against the big NFL defensive tackles.

Overall analysis: Manuwai is a very solid prospect but may be an over-rated prospect. The biggest positive about Manuwai is that he flat out knows how to play the game of football. He keeps his pad level down and can really play with great power and leverage. He is also quick into his pass protection stance and does a good job in stalemating the opposition. But Manuwai is not naturally big and strong, and he may have some trouble against the mammoth defensive tackles that he will face in the NFL. However, you never count out a smart player like Manuwai, because he is the type of player that over-achieves when reaching the next level. Right now it appears as if Manuwai would be a solid second round selection.

Rex Richards-Texas Tech

(6-4, 331, estimated 5.40 40 time)

Positives: Is a tough, blue-collar overachiever. Gets the most out of his ability and generally gets the job done. Possesses great leadership skills. Very experienced, a four-year college starter.

Negatives: Is not a great athlete. Does not have great quickness and will struggle against faster players. Has trouble recovering if he is beat by an opposing player’s first move.

Overall analysis: On paper Richards may not look like a legitimate prospect, but he’s a gritty performer who battled his way to second team All-Big 12 recognition in 2001. Richards is not a top athlete, but he rates as a positive in all of the intangible categories. He is a real battler in the trenches, and is a real team leader both on and off the field. And having been a four-year starter in the Big 12 conference, you can be sure that Richards has seen all the tricks of the trade. Right now Richards appears to have about a 50/50 chance of being drafted, but one can never count a player like this out.

Eric Steinbach-Iowa

(6-7, 284, estimated 4.95 40 time)

Positives: Outstanding athlete for an offensive lineman. Runs well, has good balance and can adjust on the move. Had a breakout year in 2001 and has more room to improve and become even better. Possesses very good upside.

Negatives: Has a very linear build for an offensive lineman, an ex-tight end that is built like a tight end. Lacks a great playing base and can get pushed around by bigger, more physical players. Has had a lot of minor injuries in the past.

Overall analysis: Steinbach was moved to the offensive line early on in his college career after arriving at Iowa as a tight end. As one would expect from an ex-tight end, Steinbach possesses excellent athletic ability for the position he now plays. Steinbach can run, has good quickness and is stronger than one would expect. However, he is not built like an offensive lineman and that could be a significant problem at the next level. His lack of brute strength will likely limit him to the left side of the offensive line, and he probably will only be able to play left guard in the NFL. It also must be noted that Steinbach has battled numerous minor injuries while at Iowa. Right now Steinbach has an excellent chance to be drafted, look for him to be selected in the middle of day two once the 2003 NFL draft arrives.

Torrin Tucker-Southern Mississippi

(6-6, 320, estimated 5.25 40 time)

Positives: Tough aggressive lineman who plays nasty. Has a great offensive lineman frame and appears to be a good athlete. Is a master at leverage, plays low and with power.

Negatives: Needs to be more consistent, will have some mental lapses on the field. Sometimes appears to be a little slow in redirecting.

Overall analysis: Tucker started his career as an offensive tackle in his redshirt freshman season and switched to offensive guard as a sophomore. Tucker has a good frame for an offensive lineman, he’s well built and has a solid lower body. He anchors well, can play with power and can also get to the second level and block on the move. As a pro, he fits best at right guard but could also play left guard, and he has enough size and athletic ability that he may be able to fill in at offensive tackle as well. Overall, Tucker has the size and ability to do everything well, but he must be more aware and consistent on the football field on a down to down basis. Currently Tucker looks like a late day one pick, but he could really move up the draft board if he has a solid senior season.

Cedric Williams-South Carolina

(6-3, 300, estimated 5.13 40 time)

Positives: Efficient player who can play with power or finesse. Is a well-coached player who shows good footwork and technique. Experienced player who has been a four-year college starter.

Negatives: Doesn’t always anchor well and is susceptible to being bull-rushed. Lacks top agility and sometimes has problems when blocking on the move. Has missed some time with ankle injuries in the past.

Overall analysis: After coming to South Carolina as a defensive lineman, Williams was switched to the offensive side of the ball during spring practice in 1999. Since that time, Williams has seen extensive action at both guard spots and even started at tackle as a redshirt freshman. Williams doesn’t have the greatest package of physical skills, but he’s a smart player who is well coached and generally gets the job done. Williams has great technique, understands blocking angles and uses his hands well. If he learns to keep his pad level down, he could prove to be a later round steal in the upcoming draft. Right now Williams looks to have a good chance of being a later round selection.

Todd Williams-Florida State

(6-6, 325, estimated 5.33 40 time)

Positives: Extremely tough individual who has overcome tremendous odds to get where he is. Has great offensive lineman size and can really maul the opponent. Has great upside and is a really improving football player.

Negatives: Only has average athletic ability. Tends to play too high and will lose the leverage battle. On the raw side, needs more game experience.

Overall analysis: When looking at Todd Williams, the first thing that must be noted is his character and mental toughness. Williams’ father was murdered and his mother abandoned him, which resulted in Williams being homeless for a portion of his childhood. Through religion Williams turned his life around, ended up on Florida State’s football team and will earn degrees Sociology and Criminology. As a player, Williams possesses excellent size and is very strong. He is very powerful on the football field and can be a devastating run blocker. However, he is not a top athlete and lacks great lateral movement. Williams played both tackle spots as a junior, but was moved inside to left guard as a senior, and he will likely end up as a guard once he reaches the next level. Currently it appears as if Williams will be a late day one/early day two selection once the 2003 NFL draft arrives.

Current prediction of draft position (October, 2002)

1. Vince Manuwai-Hawaii (round two)

2. Derrick Dockery-Texas (round two)

3. Montrae Holland-Florida State (round three)

4. Torrin Tucker-Southern Mississippi (round three)

5. Todd Williams-Florida State (round four)

6. Jordan Black-Notre Dame (round five)

7. Sherko Haji-Rasouli/Miami, Fl (round five)

8. Bryan Anderson-Pittsburgh (round six)

9. Eric Steinbach-Iowa (round six)

10. Kevin Breedlove-Georgia (round six)

11. Cedric Williams-South Carolina (round six)

12. Taylor Whitley-Texas A&M (round seven)

13. Todd Wike-Maryland (round seven)

Joseph B. Coaty’s top senior offensive guard ranking

1. Montrae Holland-Florida State

2. Vince Manuwai-Hawaii

3. Derrick Dockery-Texas

4. Torrin Tucker-Southern Mississippi

5. Sherko Haji-Rasouli/Miami, Fl

6. Cedric Williams-South Carolina

7. Kevin Breedlove-Georgia

8. Todd Williams-Florida State

9. Eric Steinbach-Iowa

10. Rex Richards-Texas Tech

[laurent]

What's the tie breaker between us and the Panthers? Divisional record or conference record?

[Art]

I think it'd be immensely dumb to take a guard in the first round when the best guard is a highly questionable first round value at any point in the first round. Unlike with Fonoti and Gurode who were both generally considered Top 20 prospects who fell, the best guard prospect in this draft might be available at 40 or so.

We'd be much more wise to take a Mo Collins or Mark Taucher in free agency as we'd get a ready for the NFL player with his best years in front of him that to go with two offensive lineman in the draft. If we go smartly into free agency looking to fill the interior line with the solid younger starting level players out there, we'll be able to focus our early rounds on defensive lineman which, to me, represent a more pressing need considering what likely will be changed in the offseason.

[dchogs]

i agree with art. get an FA OG. draft DLine first round and OG second round. that's two new OG's and a stud (hopefully) DLineman. add a saftey with the third pick and you have yourself a quality draft.

[bubba9497]

you win games with the offensive line.

I like the report on these two:

4. Torrin Tucker-Southern Mississippi (round three)

5. Todd Williams-Florida State (round four)

plus they are great draft position for good lineman. you get two good young guards to grow with Jansen, and Samuels you could have great solid line play for several years (barring FA).

[MRMADD]

<<I think it'd be immensely dumb to take a guard in the first round when the best guard is a highly questionable first round value at any point in the first round. ...

We'd be much more wise to take a Mo Collins or Mark Taucher in free agency as we'd get a ready for the NFL player with his best years in front of him that to go with two offensive lineman in the draft. If we go smartly into free agency looking to fill the interior line with the solid younger starting level players out there, we'll be able to focus our early rounds on defensive lineman which, to me, represent a more pressing need considering what likely will be changed in the offseason.>> Art

This is an old reporter's trick: set up a straw man that NO ONE agrees with ("it'd be immensely dumb to take a guard in the first round...") and pretend that it supports a different, unrelated position ("focus our early rounds on defensive linemen").

No one is advocating using a first round pick on a guard, especially not a potential top 10 pick. However, if we could trade down for a late first rounder and a second rounder (certainly feasible if it's a top 10 pick), we could add three starters instead of two. Look, this team is not one player away. The first round DT will be a huge success if he can just replace Big Daddy. I'm not against taking one of the top two DTs available, but I'd be elated if we picked the two best OGs in the second and a very, very good player in the later first round.

The other problem is that the free agent pool for OGs is dry. The best two FA OGs, Tauscher and Collins, are BOTH coming off season-ending knee surgery. And those are the best two! That said, I'd love to add either or both -- but we still need to find some young talent at OG in the draft. To me, that's the greatest weakness on the squad.

Here's an idea that should make everyone happy: draft a DT with our top 10 pick, draft an OG with our second rounder, and trade our 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 7th for another second rounder -- and draft another OG. We all know our front office is horrible in the later rounds -- wouldn't it be a spectaculary successful draft if we got the best-rated DT and the two best-rated OGs?

I know it's a pipe dream...

[Tommy-the-Greek]

If the next Larry Allen was comming out in the draft it wouldn't be stupid to grab him with a first round pick. It would be moronic to let him drop to the second just to please your sense of draft order. This team must start to think out of the box. I would trade down our top ten pick for an extra 2nd rounder in a heart beat. This idea that we can pick up guards in FA is BS. We have been operating from that mindset for years now and what have we accomplished? Hello.................Our line still sucks.

The line must be priority one. No If's and's or buts. After we establish that line then Spurrier can get some nice shiny new toys to make the F an G go. If we don't get a "O" lineman on the first day we shall suck yet again.

[MRMADD]

I get so frustrated when I see posts that say we can find guards in free agency. I've posted again and again the list of free agent guards. It's not impressive. The best two are Tauscher and Collins, and both of them had season-ending knee surgery this year. The well, my friends, is dry.

Even if it wasn't dry, we've been trying that for years. It doesn't work. We need young talent on the interior OL. We're only going to get it through the draft.

And it's equally dumb to say the Jones can step in at guard. We tried that in the preseason, and it was a horrible failure.

The OL is our top priority. If that means we have to forego one of your wet-dream first round WRs, so be it.